Prime Time on state of Dublin City Center tomorrow night

Kermit.de.frog · 02-10-2014 12:14AM #1

All those who think we are all imagining our city center sinking with each passing day in to a gurrier cesspit should look at this tomorrow.

http://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2014/1001/649312-prime-time-drugs-in-dublin/

Hopefully the program hits home and action is taken with the gardai, the drug clinics or whatever has to be done. It's shameful and embarrassing what is being tolerated and accommodated in the city center. A playground for drunks, junkies and feral youth. Now businesses are speaking out about what they increasingly see and experience day in day out and are giving warnings and some are withholding their rates such is the alarm at what they see.

smellmepower · 02-10-2014 12:44AM

What action can be taken that already isn't being taken? Gardai can't arrest people simply for being addicts, or because they're appearance intimidates certain people with delicate sensibilities.

The clinics in the city treat a large amount of addicts that are housed in and around the city in poor quality temporary accommodation. Can't see residents of any suburb willing to have them re-located in their area.

Alcoholics, vagrants etc will always flock to the city centre because it offers the most opportunity for begging, and it's where most of the homeless resources are located.

Will just be another hand wringing exercise, where no practical solutions to problems will be offered because they would require political backbone, substantial funding and wouldn't suit the black and white world views of people like the OP who's votes they are courting. Instead the politicians will trot out the same old tired cliches and figures, and then ditzy Miriam will say that's all we have time for.

SteelyDanJalapeno · 02-10-2014 12:52AM

smellmepower wrote: »

What action can be taken that already isn't being taken? Gardai can't arrest people simply for being addicts, or because they're appearance intimidates certain people with delicate sensibilities.

The clinics in the city treat a large amount of addicts that are housed in and around the city in poor quality temporary accommodation. Can't see residents of any suburb willing to have them re-located in their area.

Alcoholics, vagrants etc will always flock to the city centre because it offers the most opportunity for begging, and it's where most of the homeless resources are located.

Will just be another hand wringing exercise, where no practical solutions to problems will be offered because they would require political backbone, substantial funding and wouldn't suit the black and white world views of people like the OP who's votes they are courting. Instead the politicians will trot out the same old tired cliches and figures, and then ditzy Miriam will say that's all we have time for.

How are other cities in the world managing to keep the junkies away?

Kermit.de.frog · 02-10-2014 12:59AM

TiltedBrain wrote: »

How are other cities in the world managing to keep the junkies away?

As the description of the report says everything the addicts require is centralised in a small area of Dublin city center to such an extent that they don't just flock in every day from just the suburbs or county - they are coming in every day from all over Leinster!

And where you get so many addicts in the one place as sure as night follows day the tone of the area goes down and gives fertile ground for associates and little scummers to set up camp too.

NO other city that I know has actively damaged ITSELF like this. It's absolutely crazy. This is the center of our capital city. And the damage is being done. Tourists themselves are saying they are intimidated and they don't feel safe.

As one business owner said a few weeks back if something is not done right now this is going to stick and it is fatal for the city center.

They need to wake up and start looking after our city properly.

better call saul · 02-10-2014 01:01AM

Fück, hope I'm not being profiled

catallus · 02-10-2014 01:05AM

An easy way to stop begging would be to make it illegal to give money to beggars.

But that would be too simple, wouldn't it?

Kermit.de.frog · 02-10-2014 01:05AM

It really hits home when you think, for example, we have this huge tech conference in the RDS in November with the most important people from all over the world in that area attending. This is what they will see and experience when they go in to the city center.

It's tourism, investment, Dubliners no longer wanting to go in to town - it's not right. The answer to a big part of the problem is the clinics either have to go completely or drastically reduced in scale and number. We need much more gardaí. In fact Dublin needs it's own dedicated police force because I don't think the gardai are up to it, I really don't.

Just the other night I saw a glass bottle fight outside Connolly station just up the road from Oktoberfest where there were gardaí. I saw a group of tourists quickly moving away and looking on bemused and obviously intimidated as glass was being thrown all over the place between two sets of delinquents. People were telling the visitors to "just walk" in a kind of "this is perfectly normal in Dublin" way. I know this went on uninterrupted for at least 5 minutes. I just kept walking to get my train. Saw no gardaí who were literally just around the corner running to the scene.

ProudDUB · 02-10-2014 02:03AM

smellmepower wrote: »

What action can be taken that already isn't being taken? Gardai can't arrest people simply for being addicts, or because they're appearance intimidates certain people with delicate sensibilities.

The clinics in the city treat a large amount of addicts that are housed in and around the city in poor quality temporary accommodation. Can't see residents of any suburb willing to have them re-located in their area.

Alcoholics, vagrants etc will always flock to the city centre because it offers the most opportunity for begging, and it's where most of the homeless resources are located.

Will just be another hand wringing exercise, where no practical solutions to problems will be offered because they would require political backbone, substantial funding and wouldn't suit the black and white world views of people like the OP who's votes they are courting. Instead the politicians will trot out the same old tired cliches and figures, and then ditzy Miriam will say that's all we have time for.

Tough. The geniuses who decided to locate all the methadone treatment centres in the city centre, didn't ask the areas residents or business owners what they thought about having them there. They were just foisted upon them, without so much as a by your leave.

I am not saying that such a heavy handed approach to re distributing the locations of support services needs to happen again. But they definitely need to be more evenly distributed and spread out more, away from the city centre, and more towards the communities that these people are originally from. Not only would it help to clean the city centre up, but it would mean that there would be family and community support structures in place, that they just can't access if they are all jammed into the city centre.

I agree with everything else that you say though.

davepatr07 · 02-10-2014 02:47AM

Should be an interesting watch. I hope the city centre doesn't end up like Detroit or Jo-Burg in future. Needs Political intervention. Only the businesses and people can put pressure on the authorities to tackle the problem.

km991148 · 02-10-2014 07:28AM

davepatr07 wrote: »

Needs Political intervention.

Political intervention is needed for many issues this country is facing - but all we have are two sets of weak parties to choose from who seem more interested in covering their own jobs (and those of their own kind)

Phoebas · 02-10-2014 07:33AM

catallus wrote: »

An easy way to stop begging would be to make it illegal to give money to beggars.

But that would be too simple, wouldn't it?

I don't think it would be simple to place legal restrictions on who people choose to give their money to.

cgcsb · 02-10-2014 08:56AM

Many other cities have tackled this problem by setting up shelters/clinics in suburban industrial estates where rents are cheap and there is 24 hour security, that way Dubliners can continue to sip their lattes undisturbed.

alastair · 02-10-2014 08:57AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It really hits home when you think, for example, we have this huge tech conference in the RDS in November with the most important people from all over the world in that area attending. This is what they will see and experience when they go in to the city center.

And yet the web summit continues to grow in scale and numbers attending - clearly the city hadn't put those very important people off returning, or telling their mates they should attend.

alastair · 02-10-2014 09:04AM

Judging from the programme synopsis, there's going to be very little new reported. If the revelation that there's trade in benzos, which aren't proscribed, is the new insight, then Primetime are a little behind the times.

miamee · 02-10-2014 09:25AM

The root of the problem, IMO is the wide availability of drugs and alcohol and a lack of availability of places in rehab clinics when people decide they went to get off the stuff. They are stuck in a no man's land dependent on methadone or whatever else for years, attending clinics with other addicts and being easily pulled back in to taking drugs. There is no fresh start, there is no getting away from it for them as far as I can see. Possibly an oversimplified view but people can't get hooked on drugs if they don't exist/aren't widely available.

I was away recently and visited a few different cities in Eastern Europe. Last night while running the gauntlet of dodgy characters on Westmoreland Street at about 8.30pm, I realised that not once when I was away did I have to watch where I was walking or duck and dive to avoid running into someone who might take issue with my mere existence. If they were there at all they certainly were not visible. I'd call myself pretty street smart, I don't quake at the sight of a few alcos or junkies and I think that has maybe made me complacent to the fact that there are so many of them. It is not right. And I don't think lifting a giant sweeping brush and sweeping them out to the suburbs is going to help the issue at all except to move the problem elsewhere.

I'll be watching this with interest anyway.

SpaceTime · 02-10-2014 09:34AM

I think there's been a major attitude problem in Dublin with how people view the city.

For decades the city centre, especially the north inner city but also parts of the south inner city too have just been seen as dumping grounds and no go areas.

This isn't anything new. All that's happened is you've added lots of drugs.

It's a very non-European city in that regard. Usually the city centre is the showpiece and most expensive area.

A lot of American cities have the Dublin style abandoned city centre areas with major social issues.

It isn't the only city I feel intimidated in though.
Brussels has really scary bits right in the city centre too and lots of drugs.

Same with Amsterdam.

I also found some Spanish cities pretty dodgy.

FreudianSlippers · 02-10-2014 09:44AM

smellmepower wrote: »

What action can be taken that already isn't being taken? Gardai can't arrest people simply for being addicts, or because they're appearance intimidates certain people with delicate sensibilities.

We need an urban regeneration zone(s) in the city, particularly in the North Inner City. IMHO this means tax incentives, easy planning permission (with obvious rules) and mixed-use building. The council needs to put a plan in place that can start immediately and put funding/tax incentives towards it.

The Maverick · 02-10-2014 09:45AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It really hits home when you think, for example, we have this huge tech conference in the RDS in November with the most important people from all over the world in that area attending. This is what they will see and experience when they go in to the city center.

It's tourism, investment, Dubliners no longer wanting to go in to town - it's not right. The answer to a big part of the problem is the clinics either have to go completely or drastically reduced in scale and number. We need much more gardaí. In fact Dublin needs it's own dedicated police force because I don't think the gardai are up to it, I really don't.

Just the other night I saw a glass bottle fight outside Connolly station just up the road from Oktoberfest where there were gardaí. I saw a group of tourists quickly moving away and looking on bemused and obviously intimidated as glass was being thrown all over the place between two sets of delinquents. People were telling the visitors to "just walk" in a kind of "this is perfectly normal in Dublin" way. I know this went on uninterrupted for at least 5 minutes. I just kept walking to get my train. Saw no gardaí who were literally just around the corner running to the scene.

If these gardai were "just around the corner", why didn't you tell them about these scumbags having a fight? Guards, like the rest of the population are not omnipotent. I understand you could have been running for a train but you can't give out about the lack of a police response when you yourself made no effort.

The idea of Dublin having its own police force doesn't make sense either and it has been tried in the past. Ireland is too small to sustain it, all you will do is add an extra layer of bureaucracy and cost. Even if it were to happen, it would simply be a case of every guard in Dublin switching over to a new force with no real change enacted.

There is no political will to change the situation in Dublin, politicians simply don't care. They have the "budget deficit" banner to use as their get out of jail free card. Until they change their mindset, the guards won't change and neither will the judiciary, prison service or health service

alastair · 02-10-2014 09:54AM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

We need an urban regeneration zone(s) in the city, particularly in the North Inner City. IMHO this means tax incentives, easy planning permission (with obvious rules) and mixed-use building. The council needs to put a plan in place that can start immediately and put funding/tax incentives towards it.

Much of this already happens. The Parnell square regeneration scheme is about to kick off - http://parnellsquare.ie - there's been a bunch of new build and refurb retail, office, and residential development, with mixed success - it's easy enough to find new, empty retail and office space in the north inner city. Smithfield is wholly under-utilised in terms of what's been built. The density of middle-class apartment developments is at it's highest ever in the area. Simply throwing up new builds isn't really going to make much difference.

FreudianSlippers · 02-10-2014 10:03AM

alastair wrote: »

Much of this already happens. The Parnell square regeneration scheme is about to kick off - http://parnellsquare.ie - there's been a bunch of new build and refurb retail, office, and residential development, with mixed success - it's easy enough to find new, empty retail and office space in the north inner city. Smithfield is wholly under-utilised in terms of what's been built. The density of middle-class apartment developments is at it's highest ever in the area. Simply throwing up new builds isn't really going to make much difference.

Urban regeneration is not new builds though. It's ensuring that what is there is being utilised which does not happen in Dublin at all. Sure one of our grandest streets in the city is used to house ****ty hostels and squats.

The Parnell Square project is not a great example tbh. What I'm saying is that the council needs to ensure that poorly utilised areas are given special status and zoning (etc) to ensure revitalisation.

Timberrrrrrrr · 02-10-2014 10:04AM

TiltedBrain wrote: »

How are other cities in the world managing to keep the junkies away?

They're not.

SpaceTime · 02-10-2014 10:13AM

alastair wrote: »

Much of this already happens. The Parnell square regeneration scheme is about to kick off - http://parnellsquare.ie - there's been a bunch of new build and refurb retail, office, and residential development, with mixed success - it's easy enough to find new, empty retail and office space in the north inner city. Smithfield is wholly under-utilised in terms of what's been built. The density of middle-class apartment developments is at it's highest ever in the area. Simply throwing up new builds isn't really going to make much difference.

Smithfield is a fine example of how people see the North Inner City though.

Physically, it's really a great space but people don't seem to go there much and the retailers haven't come at all other than a couple of shops serving local needs.
It's also sort of cut off from the increasingly trendy Stoneybatter area because the street linking the two is really run down looking.

Manor Street should tie into Smithfield smoothly.

The National Museum at Collins Barracks isn't integrated into that area properly either.

LeinsterDub · 02-10-2014 10:26AM

SpaceTime wrote: »

Smithfield is a fine example of how people see the North Inner City though.

Physically, it's really a great space but people don't seem to go there much and the retailers haven't come at all other than a couple of shops serving local needs.
It's also sort of cut off from the increasingly trendy Stoneybatter area because the street linking the two is really run down looking.

Manor Street should tie into Smithfield smoothly.

The National Museum at Collins Barracks isn't integrated into that area properly either.

Their is zero reason for people who don't live in Smithfield to go to Smithfield there is never anything on there.

http://www.smithfieldsquare.ie/

Not single event using the actual square this month ,next or the next

'Come for the culture, stay for the night life', wow Ryan's and the lighthouse cinema not exactly overrun by either culture or nightlife .
Put on a big draw like Oktoberfest there , have decent open air gigs , historical or culture events and I'll go

drumswan · 02-10-2014 10:36AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It really hits home when you think, for example, we have this huge tech conference in the RDS in November with the most important people from all over the world in that area attending. This is what they will see and experience when they go in to the city center.

Do you honestly think those people will be hanging around corners on O'Connell St or Abbey St? Maybe they'll all head to Supermacs alfter the conference :rolleyes:

Thats what I do when I head to a tech conference, find out where junkies hang around and immediately head there

Aard · 02-10-2014 10:37AM

A little bit of sensationalism here -- Dublin is not like Detroit or Johannesburg during their bad days. Dublin city centre is gaining population, and a lot of these new residents have money. That in itself is evidence that things aren't so bad. Until now, city councillors haven't been too concerned with the retail spine since not many people live in this narrow strip -- meaning time and energy intensive intervention efforts wouldn't necessarily lead to votes.

Kermit.de.frog · 02-10-2014 10:40AM

I see the defenders of the realm are out in force trying to defend the situation. They are blinded and immune to the reality. Our only hope is that the numbers wanting action in the city outnumber those with their heads in the sand before it is too late.

Because if nothing happens right now and this is allowed to fester then the city center is dead. That is what will happen. No one will want to go there. Businesses will close, tourists will disappear. Word of mouth is the single most damaging thing and word gets around very quickly. The city center is in a downward spiral. And instead of people trying to defend the indefensible they would be better off saying that this is not ok, it is not acceptable and something has to be done.

drumswan · 02-10-2014 10:46AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I see the defenders of the realm are out in force trying to defend the situation. They are blinded and immune to the reality. Our only hope is that the numbers wanting action in the city outnumber does with their heads in the sand.

There is a strip in the north inner city which needs better policing, everyone agrees. Its a pain in the arse for people who have to live there and work there every day.

Your hysterical sky-is-falling nonsense is just laughable though. Ill be attending the Web Summit with our partners from the UK & Europe, they are all staying in plush hotels in Dublin 4 and we have a dinner booked in Guilbauds on the 5th. Hanging around with junkies is not high on the agenda.

The city center is in a downward spiral.

Sigh. Ive consistently shown you that the city is on an upward spiral, both visitor numbers and investment are RISING year on year. You just dont want to hear it because you are afraid of people in tracksuits.

Kermit.de.frog · 02-10-2014 10:49AM

drumswan wrote: »

There is a strip in the north inner city which needs better policing, everyone agrees. Its a pain in the arse for people who have to live there and work there every day.

Your hysterical sky-is-falling nonsense is just laughable though. Ill be attending the Web Summit with our partners from the UK & Europe, they are all staying in plush hotels in Dublin 4 and we have a dinner booked in Guilbauds on the 5th. Hanging around with junkies is not high on the agenda.

But aren't you going to bring them to Temple Bar and O'Connell Street?

Oh hold on. The fact you won't is complete vindication of what I am saying. No go areas for friends from abroad because you would rightly be too embarrassed to bring them there. That is the center of Dublin.

That is not right. Do you not see that?

alastair · 02-10-2014 10:50AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I see the defenders of the realm are out in force trying to defend the situation. They are blinded and immune to the reality. Our only hope is that the numbers wanting action in the city outnumber those with their heads in the sand before it is too late.

Because if nothing happens right now and this is allowed to fester then the city center is dead. That is what will happen. No one will want to go there. Businesses will close, tourists will disappear. Word of mouth is the single most damaging thing and word gets around very quickly. The city center is in a downward spiral. And instead of people trying to defend the indefensible they would be better off saying that this is not ok, it is not acceptable and something has to be done.

It sounds like the coming of the junkopalyse. Where will a leader to save us come from?! One clear voice that would ring out, and let the world know the truth - Something (undefined) must be done!

drumswan · 02-10-2014 10:51AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

But aren't you going to bring them to Temple Bar and O'Connell Street?

Yeah we are all headed to Dr Quirkeys after Guilbauds. Youre some clown.

Kermit.de.frog · 02-10-2014 10:59AM

drumswan wrote: »

Yeah we are all headed to Dr Quirkeys after Guilbauds. Youre some clown.

Again you miss the point. That is the center of Dublin.

This is why it has to change.

Prime Time on state of Dublin City Center tomorrow night

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