Asking A Father's Permission

ash23 · 01-10-2014 05:46PM

krudler wrote: »

Indeed, I doubt one person on here who said they'd do that would do it in reality.

I'm not sure I'd dump him but honestly it would taint the proposal for me and annoy me beyond belief to the point where I would probably say no to the proposal.
Himself would know exactly how I feel about my dad and if he asked his permission to ask me to marry him, well it would just totally undermine all the talks we've had about that very sore subject.

So I do think it would cause problems in the relationship. Oh and my father wouldn't be walking me down the aisle. My mother would. And I wouldn't change my name as my daughter has my name unless she also wanted to change hers and then I'd consider it. No to diamonds too unless they're ethical. But I'm far from a traditionalist.

MistyCheese · 01-10-2014 05:54PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's up there with putting the ring in a glass of champagne.

Oh feck yeah. Never put the ring in food (or drink). It'd be the same for any kind of jewellery though. If you're getting your lovely girlfriend/fiancée/wife/girl who you're in love with but who only sees you as a friend a necklace for her birthday don't bake it into a cake. Boxes are fine for this purpose. I honestly never heard a woman say ' yeah I do love the necklace, it's just that it would've been so much nicer if it had come with crumbs.'

Zubeneschamali · 01-10-2014 05:58PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

they are my parents, in law, and so in effect for me at least, they are in authority over me.

Even my actual real parents were only in authority over me until the age of majority, which in my case was 20 years, 4 months and 13 days old.

krudler · 01-10-2014 05:59PM

ash23 wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd dump him but honestly it would taint the proposal for me and annoy me beyond belief to the point where I would probably say no to the proposal.
Himself would know exactly how I feel about my dad and if he asked his permission to ask me to marry him, well it would just totally undermine all the talks we've had about that very sore subject.

So I do think it would cause problems in the relationship. Oh and my father wouldn't be walking me down the aisle. My mother would. And I wouldn't change my name as my daughter has my name unless she also wanted to change hers and then I'd consider it. No to diamonds too unless they're ethical. But I'm far from a traditionalist.

Well if you've already made your feelings felt about it then that's totally different.

Easy solution: bring it up in conversation at some point in the relationship, if she says she'd like the idea, go for it, if not, don't ask the dad first just tell the parents together. Simple, problem solved, everyone happy.

eviltwin · 01-10-2014 06:09PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Traditional weddings always win out. My dads not alive anymore, so the original post doesn't matter. I don't think my oh would have asked my dads permission anyway. Would it be a big deal? No.

I always said when I got married I didn't want an engagement ring, or a giant wedding. Ideally, it's an expensive pair of shoes, just me and him and two witnesses and then a really long honeymoon. No big church wedding because honestly I'd be so terrified of stage fright walking down an aisle, in front of hundred plus people. The big giant wedding full of people we barely know. Thousands on a dress ill never wear again. It seems such a waste.

Neither of my parents are around to interfere in my 'perfect day', but the OHs mom is outrageous for it. Because its her oldest sons wedding, it's almost like its her day too and it's kind of like her way or no way.

She didn't like my cheap wedding dress because it wasn't wedding dressy enough.
She was horrified we weren't getting married in a church.
Completely outraged there was no reception. What would she tell people?!
And then when were planning the invitations its like people I have never even heard of are important enough to not be excluded.

There's definitely the pressure there for the traditional wedding.

So, were doing everything traditional now.

I have an engagement ring even though I don't wear jewellery.
My brother will be walking me down the aisle I never planned on walking.
Well be getting married in a church.
I'll be wearing a proper wedding dress.
And there'll be about 150 sitting down at the reception.

Yay for conformity!

Traditional weddings always win out? Not always, surely you know many couples who didn't go the traditional route?

My own wedding, 6 yrs ago today incidentally, was non traditional. I kept my name, no rings of any kind, walked into the register office with two friends and my daughter - all very shocking for our deeply religious family but they got over it, they always do.

Best of luck with your day, hopefully you can get on with the planning without any more drama

alroley · 01-10-2014 06:10PM

I'm not an object owned by anyone. This "tradition" is basically saying that women are owned by their father and then owned by their husband.

foreverandever · 01-10-2014 06:11PM

krudler wrote: »

Well if you've already made your feelings felt about it then that's totally different.

Easy solution: bring it up in conversation at some point in the relationship, if she says she'd like the idea, go for it, if not, don't ask the dad first just tell the parents together. Simple, problem solved, everyone happy.

I agree with the above, surely engagements/marriages etc have come up in conversation at some point and this issue has been discussed a little bit.

For people saying they're not close to their father so they shouldn't be asked- I presume your OH will have the brains to realise this and not ask them so it shouldn't be an issue.

If my best friends OH asked her father it would impact on me absolutely no way at all so really people only need to worry about themselves and their relationship and stop getting so worked up about it

Holsten · 01-10-2014 06:14PM

I've no plans to marry, if it ever came to that the first and only person to be asked would be my girlfriend.

Hold the Cheez Whiz · 01-10-2014 06:16PM

Philo Beddoe wrote: »

You don't think the history of women is one of being treated as second-class citizens under threat of violence?

jill_valentine wrote: »

It wouldn't be acceptable even without the threat of violence. You could reassure black people that don't worry, you're not really going to beat them up, this is just a tradition they have, to respect the white people on the bus, but I don't think that would go over terribly well either.

This tradition is a deferential nod to a time when this gesture would not have been symbolic. Why is that something we'd want to honour? You're entering into a lifelong 50:50 partnership with this woman, and the foot you want to start on is asking her daddy if you can have her?

I'm sorry - this is just a ridiculous comparison, and I can't even discuss it rationally because I think it is so stupid. Yes women were treated as second-class citizens until very recently, particularly in Ireland. But as with most wedding traditions, the original intent has lost its meaning over time, and the only relevance it has today is whether or not it is important or offensive to the bride, groom, and father-in-law - and that is a discussion that is between them. Making sweeping statements about patriarchy in relation to this silly but relatively innocuous practice is hyperbole at its worst.

recylingbin · 01-10-2014 06:20PM

Depends on whether she has a dowry or not. No dowry, no permission sought.

FactCheck · 01-10-2014 06:23PM

recylingbin wrote: »

Depends on whether she has a dowry or not. No dowry, no permission sought.

Finally, a tradition worth keeping! I wouldn't marry anyone for less than three hundred head of cattle.

Two hundred if he was a looker.

Not2Good · 01-10-2014 06:28PM

recylingbin wrote: »

Depends on whether she has a dowry or not. No dowry, no permission sought.

They still do dowry payments?!

Defender OF Faith · 01-10-2014 06:30PM

How does it makes you a property of your father if your Husband was to ask his approval to marry you? I mean your his DAUGHTER for god sake let that sink in for a second...
people who say its a very old fashioned tradition are pretty Ironic as marriage is an extremely old tradition as well i don't even understand why people get married in the western society now days this will also be the man your will probably spend the rest of your life with, by marrying him he will also be a part of your family I think the father should have some sort of a say in this while to keep the family ties strong it shouldn't be a permission "Approval" is probably a better choice of word

Donkey Oaty · 01-10-2014 06:32PM

There's a Wiki-How article on how to ask for someone's daughter's hand in marriage.

The tips are wonderful.

Look good. What parent wants their beloved daughter marrying a total sleaze? Wash yourself that morning, do your hair, put on some nice clothes. Even clean jeans and a button-up shirt look great. Also, brush your teeth.

jill_valentine · 01-10-2014 06:36PM

Hold the Cheez Whiz wrote: »

I'm sorry - this is just a ridiculous comparison, and I can't even discuss it rationally because I think it is so stupid. Yes women were treated as second-class citizens until very recently, particularly in Ireland. But as with most wedding traditions, the original intent has lost its meaning over time, and the only relevance it has today is whether or not it is important or offensive to the bride, groom, and father-in-law - and that is a discussion that is between them. Making sweeping statements about patriarchy in relation to this silly but relatively innocuous practice is hyperbole at its worst.

People in this thread are literally telling you that they would find it insulting. The people defending it by insisting it's harmless are effectively telling them they aren't insulted.

It's a dumbass practice harking back to an extremely crappy deal for women that we're all supposed to be long beyond. Why in the name of jaysus would you taint supposedly the happiest occasion of your life by doing something hurtful and belittling to your partner? How exactly is she supposed to approach this partnership of happy equals after watching you celebrate her father's historical role as custodian-owner?

Just because you don't feel the harm in it doesn't mean it's harmless. Golliwogs were harmless tradition too.

bb1234567 · 01-10-2014 06:41PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Very disrespectful to the girl imho. She is not the property of her father and shouldn't be treated as such. She will make her own decisions.

Also if you are asking I dont see why the father should only be asked to give his blessing and not the mother. Old age sexism

kryogen · 01-10-2014 06:53PM

Tarzana wrote: »

See, I would be LIVID if my father knew my BF was thinking of asking me before me.

Good thing we aren't a couple so or you would have just learned something that would have made you pretty angry.

Carlos Orange · 01-10-2014 06:55PM

Tarzana wrote: »

See, I would be LIVID if my father knew my BF was thinking of asking me before me.

Would you be more,the same or less livid if he talked to a friend about it before asking you?

jill_valentine · 01-10-2014 07:05PM

psinno wrote: »

Would you be more,the same or less livid if he talked to a friend about it before asking you?

Is he asking the friend for permission, in accordance with some tradition stemming from an age when said friend would have had actual control of her as a household asset?

01-10-2014 07:18PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

Why in the name of jaysus would you taint supposedly the happiest occasion of your life by doing something hurtful and belittling to your partner? How exactly is she supposed to approach this partnership of happy equals after watching you celebrate her father's historical role as custodian-owner?

You are of course completely ignoring the fact that a lot of women very much want this tradition carried out so how on earth can it be hurtful or belittling?

I really can't get inside the heads of some people at all how they can come up with such nonsense about a harmless tradition that a lot of people like to do.

Czarcasm · 01-10-2014 07:18PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

People in this thread are literally telling you that they would find it insulting. The people defending it by insisting it's harmless are effectively telling them they aren't insulted.

Well that's your way of interpreting it. Other people are speaking on their own behalf, as opposed to you who seems to think you can speak on behalf of all women. You really can't, and shouldn't try to, because not all women agree with you.

It's a dumbass practice harking back to an extremely crappy deal for women that we're all supposed to be long beyond. Why in the name of jaysus would you taint supposedly the happiest occasion of your life by doing something hurtful and belittling to your partner?

Because the people involved don't see it the same way you do? My wife neither felt hurt nor belittled by the idea.

How exactly is she supposed to approach this partnership of happy equals after watching you celebrate her father's historical role as custodian-owner?

Well that's just a rather shítty way of looking at it tbh, no nice way of saying that.

Just because you don't feel the harm in it doesn't mean it's harmless. Golliwogs were harmless tradition too.

My wife didn't feel the harm in it either, nobody involved felt any harm in it, and yes, Golliwogs were harmless tradition until people started reading way too much into a child's toy. I had a Golliwog when I was a child, given to me as a Christmas present by my elderly next door neighbour, and y'know what it taught me?

Sweet fcukall, I just had fun playing with the doll.

It wasn't until I watched "Gone with the Wind" that I'd a bit of a WTF moment as until then I'd never seen a black person. Even then I didn't make the connection between Golliwogs and black people as I wasn't aware of the history of the doll, and many people I suspect, are unaware of the historical significance of what some people see as a tradition that seems to cause you such outrage. Therefore they don't attach as much significance to it as you do.

Shenshen · 01-10-2014 07:24PM

Adalyn Scrawny Goalkeeper wrote: »

You are of course completely ignoring the fact that a lot of women very much want this tradition carried out so how on earth can it be hurtful or belittling?

I really can't get inside the heads of some people at all how they can come up with such nonsense about a harmless tradition that a lot of people like to do.

Well, I've read all of this thread (and previous threads on the subject), and while I realise AH isn't exactly representative of general society, there are not very many women on here arguing in favour of asking the father first.
In fact, the women on here seem to be the ones arguing against for the most part.

In real life, the only person I know who has asked the father is from Nigeria (as is his wife). The plural of anecdotes isn't data or fact, but I would question how prevalent it really is these days.

If both husband and wife to be want the father to be asked, by all means go ahead. But I think it would definitely be advisable to discuss it beforehand, as a lot of women have very strong feelings about not continuing the tradition.

Hold the Cheez Whiz · 01-10-2014 07:30PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

People in this thread are literally telling you that they would find it insulting. The people defending it by insisting it's harmless are effectively telling them they aren't insulted.

It's a dumbass practice harking back to an extremely crappy deal for women that we're all supposed to be long beyond. Why in the name of jaysus would you taint supposedly the happiest occasion of your life by doing something hurtful and belittling to your partner? How exactly is she supposed to approach this partnership of happy equals after watching you celebrate her father's historical role as custodian-owner?

Just because you don't feel the harm in it doesn't mean it's harmless. Golliwogs were harmless tradition too.

Yes, and other people in the thread don't think it is insulting at all - which is exactly why I have said from the start that this is something that should be discussed between a couple before moving forward with it. Some men and women are offended by it, some are indifferent, and some think it is an important part of the whole engagement process. As long as the couple is on the same page about what it means and why, then it isn't really anyone else's business. Given that there isn't some kind of law making this mandatory (or even strong social expectations that pressure men to do this), it is unclear who or what exactly being harmed here, other than other peoples' delicate sensibilities.

01-10-2014 07:34PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, I've read all of this thread (and previous threads on the subject), and while I realise AH isn't exactly representative of general society, there are not very many women on here arguing in favour of asking the father first.
In fact, the women on here seem to be the ones arguing against for the most part.

As you said though on many topics AH is a very poor representation of actual society and there are actually very few women arguing either way on this thread. In general the opinions expressed here are often the opposite if what I encounter in general and that's not just amount my group of friends but across work colleges, friends of friends etc etc.

Shenshen wrote: »

Well
In real life, the only person I know who has asked the father is from Nigeria (as is his wife). The plural of anecdotes isn't data or fact, but I would question how prevalent it really is these days.

Where as as far as I'm aware almost all if not all the people I know have. Between June and the end of next month I will have been at 3 wedding, all quite different scenarios and all three friends from different circles: two country people getting married, two people from different Irish cities getting married and an Irish woman marrying an English man and in all three of these alone the father of the bride has been asked for their daughters hand.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 01-10-2014 07:51PM

I was asked recently by my youngest daughters Fiance and also a few years ago by my oldest daughters now husband. I know my eldest son asked his now father in law and I asked my father in law. I know I had discussed it with my wife and my children had all discussed it with their respective partners. Did it cause any harm nope did it upset anyone nope. In fact we have all have had some good laughs about it in the past.

dm09 · 01-10-2014 07:55PM

My OH's father is a cnut, he'd probably say no.. not that i'd give a sh*t

"Why you gotta be so rude? I'm gonna marry her anyway!"

Tin Foil Hat · 01-10-2014 08:13PM

An item on the news during the week said that the average age of a man on his wedding day was 35 and the average age of a woman was 32.
Imagine a man/couple asking another person for permission on a decision regarding their own private lives at that age! Pathetic, to be honest.

Shenshen · 01-10-2014 08:19PM

Adalyn Scrawny Goalkeeper wrote: »

As you said though on many topics AH is a very poor representation of actual society and there are actually very few women arguing either way on this thread. In general the opinions expressed here are often the opposite if what I encounter in general and that's not just amount my group of friends but across work colleges, friends of friends etc etc.

Bluewolf, lazygal, dede12, tigger123, sunshine and flowers, Esterhase, nitrix, FactCheck, indigo twist, Tarzana, Dail Hard, ash24, Jill_valentine, Semele, alroley, and my good self. There might be more, but these are the posters who have made it clear that they are female.

In fact, nearly all the female posters in this thread would find it offensive and disrespectful.
Funnily enough, plenty of male posters keep telling us we're in the wrong to feel insulted. I've just read through much of it again, and I have to say the level of patronising is frankly astonishing.

I don't know where you live and what your social circle is like, but anytime you post (in this thread as in others) I get the feeling there's a hole in the spacetime continuum and you're posting straight from 1952... at this point it's almost becoming surreal.

01-10-2014 08:23PM

If a couple are both happy with it then that's great, go for it.

But the lads insisting they would ask regardless and feck how she feels because how the dad feels is more important is a bit ..

so are the claims of "everyone in ireland does it" and "it's only right and respectful"

foreverandever · 01-10-2014 08:47PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Bluewolf, lazygal, dede12, tigger123, sunshine and flowers, Esterhase, nitrix, FactCheck, indigo twist, Tarzana, Dail Hard, ash24, Jill_valentine, Semele, alroley, and my good self. There might be more, but these are the posters who have made it clear that they are female.

In fact, nearly all the female posters in this thread would find it offensive and disrespectful.
Funnily enough, plenty of male posters keep telling us we're in the wrong to feel insulted. I've just read through much of it again, and I have to say the level of patronising is frankly astonishing.

I don't know where you live and what your social circle is like, but anytime you post (in this thread as in others) I get the feeling there's a hole in the spacetime continuum and you're posting straight from 1952... at this point it's almost becoming surreal.

I'm female and I absolutely wouldn't find it offensive. Equally if he didn't do it I wouldn't be offended either. If people want to look at it as they're being treated as property then fine be offended. I know that would not be what my OH or my father meant and I think it's more a moment for the two of them to enjoy. Beside my OH my father is the most important man in my life so my OH knows I wouldn't be offended. I would marry him with or without my fathers blessing but I'd like to think I wouldn't pick a guy my father didn't like.

People can read into things anyway they want but I never got the impression from one of the men commenting on this thread that it was because they viewed their wife as property or to seek permission to ask, they all just felt it was a nice gesture

Asking A Father's Permission

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