LEAP cards now work on the city buses

antoobrien · 30-09-2014 5:21pm

Intifada wrote: »

The flip side to this is not always knowing how much you have on your card or being able to top it up, as opposed to having coins in your pocket you can count.

That's not hard to overcome, especially given the online functionality made available via the leap website.

jkforde · 30-09-2014 5:50pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The 1.60 was speculation from someone, based on the quoted 16% on the BE leap. It's not anything official.

it is official, the 16% discount figure was categorically stated at the launch of Leap in Cork on BÉ services... maybe we should ask someone on the Cork city forum on their experiences with it.....

Mrs OBumble · 30-09-2014 6:36pm

jkforde wrote: »

it is official, the 16% discount figure was categorically stated at the launch of Leap in Cork on BÉ services... maybe we should ask someone on the Cork city forum on their experiences with it.....

I've been googling:

That was for Cork. Galway is not Cork.

The official fare determination for Bus Éireann and the Leap-launch in Galway is available here:

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Determination_BE_Leap__Student__Child_May14_final.pdf

The key information from it is:

As outlined above Bus Éireann are proposing to introduce the Leap card and associated Leap products in Galway city during quarter 3 later this year. The current range of 1-day, 7-day, monthly and annual tickets will transfer to Leap card products. There will be additional benefits with the Leap card products such as the 24 hour period of validity of the one day product as opposed to one day with the old ticket. However the current prices will remain the same.

bolding mine.

City Direct is a different kettle of fish - they aren't subsidised, so set their own fares. It's up to them to announce leap discounts if they want to offer any.

jkforde · 30-09-2014 8:39pm

ok, that information in the PDF is correct but I'm talking about single trip cash ticketing, not prepaid tickets etc. (read the whole section on Galway City)

if I hop on a bus for a single trip into town and I proffer cash the current price for my pickup location is €1.90 but if I pay with my Leapcard credit it'll be 16% cheaper.

antoobrien · 01-10-2014 7:55am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've been googling:

That was for Cork. Galway is not Cork.

BÉ have stated that they are applying 16% to Galway.

http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=386

You can use Travel credit on your Leap Card to pay for single trips> Travel Credit fares are 16% cheaper than the corresponding cash single ticket. If you are a more frequent traveller, you can also but the following tickets for your card

Victor · 01-10-2014 10:08am

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/leap-card-now-in-galway-fares-up-to-16-cheaper/

Leap Card now in Galway – fares up to 16% cheaper
30/09/14

The National Transport Authority’s Leap Card integrated ticketing scheme is now live in Galway City on Bus Éireann services and on City Direct services (from Cappagh to the West and Oranmore and Parkmore to the East of the City).

Customers can choose an Adult, Student or Child Leap Card for better value and more convenient travelling. It is a pay-as-you-go smart card that pays for public transport services. Leap fares are 16% cheaper than the corresponding cash single ticket on Bus Éireann services (routes 401 – 410), and are the same price as cash fares on City Direct services (routes 411 – 413).

In addition, commuters and more frequent travellers can upload a range of time-period tickets onto their Leap Card – 24-hour tickets, 7-day tickets, month-long tickets.

Cards are available to buy and top-up in a range of Payzone agent shops in Galway (see www.payzone.ie for full details), or on our own dedicated website: www.leapcard.ie .

Since its launch in Dublin in December 2011, the Leap Card has become an integral part of many people’s daily travelling behaviour. Some 700,000 cards are now in circulation, with 70 million journeys paid for by Leap since its launch. The card was launched for bus services in Cork earlier this year, and future plans include adding the cities of Limerick and Waterford and also incorporating new products and operators in the scheme.

For more information on Leap Card, visit www.leapcard.ie

Laviski · 01-10-2014 12:02pm

so has actually used it yet and verify the single fare price?

all information so far has not verified the actual single fare price, find it odd that a simple single fare price for leap cards is hard to post on BE site or the national transportation site.

Victor · 01-10-2014 2:17pm

J o e wrote: »

So no savings on the weekly or monthly passes?

These are a direct replacement of the 'paper' tickets, which will likely be withdrawn soon.

The advantage of Leap Card is that you should be able to buy products (monthly, annual, etc.) on-line and use one card for products and e-purse (if you go to Cork or Dublin).

Intifada · 01-10-2014 2:29pm

Victor wrote: »

These are a direct replacement of the 'paper' tickets, which will likely be withdrawn soon.

The advantage of Leap Card is that you should be able to buy products (monthly, annual, etc.) on-line and use one card for products and e-purse (if you go to Cork or Dublin).

It will save BÉ money in the long run though, which will obviously be passed on to the commuter (:pac: :pac:)

Mrs OBumble · 01-10-2014 2:50pm

Intifada wrote: »

It will save BÉ money in the long run though, which will obviously be passed on to the commuter (:pac: :pac:)

... in the form of reduced subsidy requirements meaning less tax needs to be used to prop up the CIE group.

Intifada · 01-10-2014 3:00pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

... in the form of reduced subsidy requirements meaning less tax needs to be used to prop up the CIE group.

Ah yes good woman, I look forward to taxes falling as a result

antoobrien · 02-10-2014 10:11am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

... in the form of reduced subsidy requirements meaning less tax needs to be used to prop up the CIE group.

Lower bank charges for handling the large amounts of coins, more accurate fare receipts, less potential for hands in the till....

Intifada · 02-10-2014 2:01pm

Apparently the monthly passes still can only be purchased for a calendar month, despite the electronic system. Hilarious if true

jkforde · 03-10-2014 11:04am

just used it from Tuam Rd.to Dunnes Knocknacarra... The driver accepted it, placed it on the reader but didn't issue a paper ticket... just looked at my balance online and my credit hasn't been debited yet, maybe the drivers aren't totally up to speed yet which is understandable I suppose

spiritcrusher · 03-10-2014 12:13pm

The updated balance takes aaaages to appear online for some reason. It's often been a couple of days before I've seen updated balances in my online account so you really have to keep track of your balance yourself if you're using it regularly. But rest assured that the bus drivers and inspectors have access to your most up-to-date balance and recently purchased ticket. Just in case the guilt of a free bus ride was getting too much :P

antoobrien · 03-10-2014 12:22pm

jkforde wrote: »

just used it from Tuam Rd.to Dunnes Knocknacarra... The driver accepted it, placed it on the reader but didn't issue a paper ticket... just looked at my balance online and my credit hasn't been debited yet, maybe the drivers aren't totally up to speed yet which is understandable I suppose

They shouldn't issue paper tickets. Not sure how long it takes to update the online balance though.

Cocolola · 03-10-2014 12:36pm

I got a student leap card a week ago and then topped it up with €10 early on Monday, selecting City Direct as load location. I tried it out the next morning and it seemed to work fine, I was let on the bus anyway! When I check online though it still says my travel credit balance is €0.00 and there's no transactions so I'm wondering is it just reallllly slow or has the credit not loaded? Do I need to specifically say to the driver that it needs to be loaded next time?

Or was it just a case that I don't wait long enough before trying to use it after topping up and happened to get a bus driver who might not have realised it didn't work?

Vic_08 · 04-10-2014 4:19pm

jkforde wrote: »

just used it from Tuam Rd.to Dunnes Knocknacarra... The driver accepted it, placed it on the reader but didn't issue a paper ticket... just looked at my balance online and my credit hasn't been debited yet, maybe the drivers aren't totally up to speed yet which is understandable I suppose

Paper tickets are not issued for purse or pass use, receipts are issued for pass purchases.

Bus usage will not appear online until the bus machine uploads it's transaction data. This usually happens every night but if the machine has no wifi or mobile data connection it will not appear until a connection is competed.

spiritcrusher wrote: »

The updated balance takes aaaages to appear online for some reason. It's often been a couple of days before I've seen updated balances in my online account so you really have to keep track of your balance yourself if you're using it regularly. But rest assured that the bus drivers and inspectors have access to your most up-to-date balance and recently purchased ticket. Just in case the guilt of a free bus ride was getting too much :P

All usage info is stored on the card so any reader will be able to provide that info, bus drivers can print out a list of the last 5 transactions for you but be sensible and don't ask when it will delay the service.

Cocolola wrote: »

I got a student leap card a week ago and then topped it up with €10 early on Monday, selecting City Direct as load location. I tried it out the next morning and it seemed to work fine, I was let on the bus anyway! When I check online though it still says my travel credit balance is €0.00 and there's no transactions so I'm wondering is it just reallllly slow or has the credit not loaded? Do I need to specifically say to the driver that it needs to be loaded next time?

Or was it just a case that I don't wait long enough before trying to use it after topping up and happened to get a bus driver who might not have realised it didn't work?

It would entirely depend on how City Direct are updating their on board machines. If they are allowing on-board collection then they would really need to have a system that is regularly connecting to download updated purchases otherwise people are going to turn up having purchased credit or passes that the bus and card do not have access to. Presumably if they have a regularly updating system it should also be returning data quickly so online balances are also updated quickly.

Mrs OBumble · 04-10-2014 6:47pm

Vic_08 wrote: »

It would entirely depend on how City Direct are updating their on board machines. If they are allowing on-board collection then they would really need to have a system that is regularly connecting to download updated purchases otherwise people are going to turn up having purchased credit or passes that the bus and card do not have access to. Presumably if they have a regularly updating system it should also be returning data quickly so online balances are also updated quickly.

City Direct are one of the places where people can pick up credit they have purchased on-line, so they must have on-board connections.

Bus Éireann are not offering the same option.

Intifada · 06-10-2014 9:17am

Wait so if I have €2 on my card, I could potentially take as many buses as I wanted that day because my balance hasn't changed?

antoobrien · 06-10-2014 10:29am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

City Direct are one of the places where people can pick up credit they have purchased on-line, so they must have on-board connections.

Bus Éireann are not offering the same option.

Intifada wrote: »

Wait so if I have €2 on my card, I could potentially take as many buses as I wanted that day because my balance hasn't changed?

The balance is not stored on line, it's stored on the card. I suspect the trip history is updated when the on bus ticket module is uploaded to ticketing system.

jkforde · 06-10-2014 5:39pm

can confirm that BÉ buses are able to activate credit, no need to activate in Payzone... this was on the 405 anyhow but I'm assuming they're all kitted out to the same spec

whineflu · 07-10-2014 2:14pm

So based on feedback here giving me the feeling that this was the new sliced bread I went to Eason yesterday morning and bought a shiny new Leap card.
The bus driver on the way to work didn't know how to work the machine so I paid cash. He was nice about it and said he hadn't had any training. When I got off the bus he said he had since figured out from a remembered conversation with a colleague.
On the way home the driver told me I couldn't use the card. He was fairly gruff about it and I got the impression he hadn't got any training either. I paid cash.
This morning I asked the driver and whilst he seemed initially put out he jabbed a few buttons and sent me on my way. I have no idea if I was charged or not.

So what's the story? Is the Leap payment method officially in use now? I felt like someone trying to pay my fare with roubles or something the last two days.

Mrs OBumble · 07-10-2014 3:12pm

Yes, it is officially in use since 28 September - as per here: http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=386

If I was you, I would say that I had no cash, and that the card was the only way I could pay. If the driver does not know how to work his/her ticket machine, they should be letting you on for free, IMHO. That's what happened when Mr O'Bumble and I tried to use the card at the weekend - which is why I haven't been able make a definitive post about the adult far yet.

jkforde · 07-10-2014 3:15pm

bad luck I'd say, I've had no issues using it so far

catgalway · 08-10-2014 12:25pm

I've saved soooooo much money since I bought our leapcards...asking for a daysaver turns out to be the best way not to get a charge on my card ...& my daughter still has full balance,nothing taken off hers as school fare is a bit complicated to suss out on the machines ...€23 spent on them so no way will I be offering cash to drivers.This mornings bus driver took one look at her card and waved her past !!!!Maybe someone should inform Buseireann???.....NAH

snubbleste · 08-10-2014 12:31pm

Eh, delete the post before they find out!

whineflu · 08-10-2014 4:21pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes, it is officially in use since 28 September

Thanks. The guy on the way home yesterday actually charged my card for the first time.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If the driver does not know how to work his/her ticket machine, they should be letting you on for free, IMHO.

Like I said the first driver was very genuine and he said he hadn't got any training. He doesn't have the authority to let me on for free. Its a difficult situation to be put in for some people. I think someone failed here big time but its not the driver's fault

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If I was you, I would say that I had no cash, and that the card was the only way I could pay.

No. if you were me you wouldn't do that.

Mrs OBumble · 08-10-2014 5:04pm

So do tell - how much did they charge???

whineflu · 09-10-2014 10:30am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So do tell - how much did they charge???

The driver pressed one button and my balance displayed on the LCD display.
Then he asked me what I wanted. I said "I think it's €1.65" and he hovered for a second before hitting another button and replied "€1.60".
So either a standard single is €1.60 with a Leap card or he found a way to charge me that much based on my request.

jamesoc85 · 09-10-2014 11:06am

I have been using the Card for the past week. Twice a day for single fares on the 409 route. And half the time the drivers have no idea what they are doing. I have got 3 free trips as they don't know how to charge for the leap card. Its great, plus its 1.60 a trip when they do charge my card so its 30c cheaper every trip.

antoobrien · 09-10-2014 11:38am

jamesoc85 wrote: »

I have been using the Card for the past week. Twice a day for single fares on the 409 route. And half the time the drivers have no idea what they are doing. I have got 3 free trips as they don't know how to charge for the leap card.

Ask the drivers that "don't know" what they're doing if they are in a union. It wouldn't surprise me if there were negotiations on how to get more pay out of Bé for "changes to terms & conditions" and "using new/different technologies".

Mrs OBumble · 09-10-2014 11:48am

whineflu wrote: »

Like I said the first driver was very genuine and he said he hadn't got any training. He doesn't have the authority to let me on for free. Its a difficult situation to be put in for some people. I think someone failed here big time but its not the driver's fault.

But he has the authority to drive a bus without bothering to find out how to use the ticketing equipment on it?

Leap cards are now a legitimate form of payment - you have a right to expect that all drivers know how to use them.

How would you react if you handed over a E5 note, and the driver said "sorry I don't know how to give change for those"?

gordongekko · 09-10-2014 12:25pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But he has the authority to drive a bus without bothering to find out how to use the ticketing equipment on it?

I'd expect he has a valid driving licence allowing him to drive the bus.

jkforde · 09-10-2014 1:46pm

jkforde wrote: »

can confirm that BÉ buses are able to activate credit, no need to activate in Payzone... this was on the 405 anyhow but I'm assuming they're all kitted out to the same spec

ok, topped up with 10 euros on Tuesday but was told this morning that it's not possible to load the credit on the bus... so until all drivers are up to speed so to speak bring some change with you! (not withstanding Mrs point about it being a legitimate form of payment now)

jamesoc85 · 09-10-2014 4:16pm

Another free trip this afternoon, bus eireann Are saving my a fortune

whineflu · 10-10-2014 2:03pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

How would you react if you handed over a E5 note, and the driver said "sorry I don't know how to give change for those"?

Obviously I'd be surprised but that is not an equivalent scenario. If it was New Years Day 2002 and the driver never been informed of any type of currency changeover and I handed him a €5 euro note. He might react like you said.
I think this situation is tricky because it isn't clear where the failure in implementing the new system occurred. Is it BE management. Is it the drivers. Is it unions? Is it TFI? I don't know.
Letting people on for free or demanding to be let on for free is another very Irish solution. We all complain about a lack of formal process but we all happily go with the flow when it suits.

inisboffin · 10-10-2014 3:55pm

whineflu wrote: »

Obviously I'd be surprised but that is not an equivalent scenario. If it was New Years Day 2002 and the driver never been informed of any type of currency changeover and I handed him a €5 euro note. He might react like you said.
I think this situation is tricky because it isn't clear where the failure in implementing the new system occurred. Is it BE management. Is it the drivers. Is it unions? Is it TFI? I don't know.
Letting people on for free or demanding to be let on for free is another very Irish solution. We all complain about a lack of formal process but we all happily go with the flow when it suits.

I disagree. It's good customer service policy, that's all. If a service is purchased (the leap card) and the till of the business is faulty or an employee not sure, the management err on the side of 'the customer is always right'. If they were still 'training' they should not have made a public announcement to say it's ready for use. Have dummy customers/inspectors test it out for a week so.

It's a slightly different scenario if say a credit card machine is broken. The very least is to hang a sign on the entrance door. With a bus, this is a bit late when the bus comes (it's like being at a till). SO the only comparable solution might be hanging a sign on bus stops saying "we may not have a clue how to use a Leap card, sorry for any inconvenience. Maybe bring cash or use another company".

whineflu · 10-10-2014 4:41pm

inisboffin wrote: »

I disagree. It's good customer service policy, that's all.

Not being funny but I don't want good customer service. If I go out for dinner and get served a nice hot delicious meal without delay then that's as expected. If my meal takes ages and then arrives cold or burnt but the manager apologises and says its on the house then that's good customer service?? I'd prefer a hot meal on time without any fuss.
I want this service to work and I don't want to be a beta tester. I don't think that's too much to ask but because of the haphazard way the Leap service is being rolled out (marketing fanfare without informing the drivers) I'm forced to endure the daily roulette of will they / won't they

inisboffin wrote: »

If they were still 'training' they should not have made a public announcement to say it's ready for use. Have dummy customers/inspectors test it out for a week so.

100% agree which is why I wouldn't be hanging an individual driver for a systemic error.

inisboffin · 10-10-2014 5:12pm

whineflu wrote: »

Not being funny but I don't want good customer service. If I go out for dinner and get served a nice hot delicious meal without delay then that's as expected. If my meal takes ages and then arrives cold or burnt but the manager apologises and says its on the house then that's good customer service?? I'd prefer a hot meal on time without any fuss.

I'm not sure of your argument here. If you paid for a gift voucher or got it for a present and were turned away at the restaurant because the waiter didn't know what to do with it, then it is the fault of the business. And I *do* want good customer service: I want a bus that comes on time and rewards repeat business and a staff that's respectful. One can only live in hope for all of them!

I was not suggesting that customers be Beta Testers, simply that the service is not on offer to the public while they test it (have the machines on but they are not in use) and have inspectors test the drivers.

whineflu wrote: »

100% agree which is why I wouldn't be hanging an individual driver for a systemic error.

We're not hanging any driver. It's the company that are at fault. The driver represents the company. The drivers that let people on for free are simply doing a better customer service job for their company than the ones that aren't. They know they have a (semi) monopoly on their service. Thankfully the 'semi' part is there.

whineflu · 10-10-2014 5:51pm

inisboffin wrote: »

I'm not sure of your argument here. If you paid for a gift voucher or got it for a present and were turned away at the restaurant because the waiter didn't know what to do with it, then it is the fault of the business. And I *do* want good customer service: I want a bus that comes on time and rewards repeat business and a staff that's respectful. One can only live in hope for all of them!

Are you trying to clarify what I said or are you trying to make a different point. If I could try and clarify.. I want the service to work. I want all the good things you mention. I don't want a shoddy service that I get for free. I want the premium version.

inisboffin wrote: »

I was not suggesting that customers be Beta Testers, simply that the service is not on offer to the public while they test it (have the machines on but they are not in use) and have inspectors test the drivers.

Yes and I said that if they don't do that (which they didn't) then the customers become Beta testers (which they effectively are).

inisboffin wrote: »

We're not hanging any driver. It's the company that are at fault. The driver represents the company. The drivers that let people on for free are simply doing a better customer service job for their company than the ones that aren't. They know they have a (semi) monopoly on their service. Thankfully the 'semi' part is there.

What you said was that the drivers who let people on for free are giving a good customer service and that if they don't then its bad customer service. I don't want a shoddy service coupled with apologies (or gratuities). I want a service that works as advertised. This is where I make the same analogy about the restaurant again but since you didn't understand it the first time I guess we're going round in circles.

inisboffin · 10-10-2014 6:05pm

whineflu wrote: »

What you said was that the drivers who let people on for free are giving a good customer service and that if they don't then its bad customer service. I don't want a shoddy service coupled with apologies (or gratuities). I want a service that works as advertised. This is where I make the same analogy about the restaurant again but since you didn't understand it the first time I guess we're going round in circles.

Yup. We're going round in circles. I think we both want a service that works - alas we don't have that yet.
You made the point that "letting people on for free" was a "very Irish solution". I made the point that was a good customer service move - not the 'machine not working' or the 'driver not having a clue' part, but the part about making the best of a f*ck up. That is the good customer service.

I understand perfectly well. The 'service' that I want is showing my Leap card (that I've paid for) in order to get on the bus, and if that means them letting passengers on for free, then so be it. I still get my service, so it's not like I got an inferior product and an apology. Bad customer service is refusing passengers a journey and penalising them because of the training inadequacy. I don't blame any drivers, it's a system failure.

catgalway · 10-10-2014 8:54pm

So today I find out that the child leapcard actually does not offer a schoolchild fare option.....so she was charged 97c instead of the normal cash price of 90c !!!! How does that make sense

...So I'm glad we got some free trips...no savings to be had now

jkforde · 13-10-2014 3:01pm

jkforde wrote: »

ok, topped up with 10 euros on Tuesday but was told this morning that it's not possible to load the credit on the bus... so until all drivers are up to speed so to speak bring some change with you! (not withstanding Mrs point about it being a legitimate form of payment now)

some follow up on loading credit on BÉ buses...

"Thank you for your email.
At present, online top ups can only be collected in Galway on City Direct services. To collect the credit, the card needs to be simply scanned on the bus. We will send on your feedback regarding Bus Eireann buses not being a load location at present, this may be available in the future.
Leap Card Customer Care"

FouxDaFaFa · 13-10-2014 3:30pm

Have used it three times successfully (no free journeys for me, boo!), it's great not to have to think about getting change ready.

Cocolola · 15-10-2014 11:40am

Does anyone know when you buy a single fare (on CD busses) and the driver goes through the whole selecting and selling a ticket thing, and a ticket prints, should your card balance that's displayed on the driver's console immediately decrease?

I used my card this morning and bought my ticket but the driver called me back to say it hadn't been deducted from my card. He then "let me on" the bus anyway.

jkforde · 15-10-2014 1:18pm

Cocolola wrote: »

Does anyone know when you buy a single fare (on CD busses) and the driver goes through the whole selecting and selling a ticket thing, and a ticket prints, should your card balance that's displayed on the driver's console immediately decrease?

I used my card this morning and bought my ticket but the driver called me back to say it hadn't been deducted from my card. He then "let me on" the bus anyway.

it doesn't display the balance but the 1.60 fare does display and that's when it's been deducted... I just leave it on the reader until told to take it off

Cocolola · 15-10-2014 2:45pm

jkforde wrote: »

it doesn't display the balance but the 1.60 fare does display and that's when it's been deducted... I just leave it on the reader until told to take it off

Are you sure the balance isn't displayed? I've seen my balance on both BE and CD busses when my card was on the reader. On BE it was on the little display that points out to the passenger and on CD you can see it in the bottom left of their touch screens.

I just don't know if the fare is deducted immediately and so therefore should show up on the displays or if it's like everything else with the cards, and takes 24-48 hours to go through.

antoobrien · 15-10-2014 4:15pm

Cocolola wrote: »

I just don't know if the fare is deducted immediately and so therefore should show up on the displays or if it's like everything else with the cards, and takes 24-48 hours to go through.

The balance is deducted immediately from the purse stored on the card.

It takes a while to get the details onto the website, depending on how often the bus companies upload the ticketing data to the system.

Cocolola · 15-10-2014 4:46pm

antoobrien wrote: »

The balance is deducted immediately from the purse stored on the card.

It takes a while to get the details onto the website, depending on how often the bus companies upload the ticketing data to the system.

Ah thank you. So I guess I've been taking a few free trips on CD then

Although they have technicians coming out tomorrow apparently to fix some issues they've been having so I'm assuming this will get sorted then too. Pity.

LEAP cards now work on the city buses

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