LEAP cards now work on the city buses

Mrs OBumble

Transport for Ireland just tweeted that LEAP cards (those green things that save you money up in Dublin) are now working on the Galway City buses (that's Bus Éireann city services and City Direct):



Eagle-eyes here on boards spotted that cards for Galway were available on the LEAP website, and TFI have just confirmed it today after I asked them a few days ago.

I don't know where to buy tickets yet (possibly the outlets are not yet stocked), but if you have a card from Dublin (or Cork where they're just rolling out now, too), then it should work here.

And (guessing) it's possible that driver training here is not yet complete. So be nice to the drivers if they seem a bit confused - this launch has probably happened faster than planned :-)

Don't think they're on any of the regional buses yet, either - though I believe it's coming.

This won't seem like big news to many people. But in Dublin the savings are quite big. And cards like this make transfers, fare capping and lots of other good things possible, and will eventually work nationwide.

Iwannahurl

I'm not familiar with LEAP as I am not a regular bus commuter, but I do believe this is A Good Thing.

Anything that improves the Level of Service for bus users is welcome.

spiritcrusher

LEAP cards are great, used them all the time when I lived in Dublin. The only annoying thing about LEAP cards is that if you top up online you still have to go into a shop that sells them to activate the new balance. Essentially making it a completely pointless way of topping up.

Laviski

apparently there are 3 agents:

spar mainguard street
londis high street.
easons shop street

can be found on : http://www.payzone.ie/paywithpayzone.jsp

can't find any other information on sites about leap cards for galway or if being accepted, especially on leapcard.ie

catgalway

In Knocknacarra ,Cappagh Stores on the Cappagh Rd sell them so possibly Cotters Shop on the Shangort road do too as they are run by the same guy.

what_traffic

Great thread and this is really great news for Galway City. Certainly makes it easier for people to use the buses and hopefully will speed up services when people are boarding buses.

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

hopefully will speed up services when people are boarding buses.

Hopefully the flat fare structure on most galway routes (is 410 an exception?) will help matters, as with Dublin Bus leap passengers had to queue with cash passengers - except when using the maximum fair.

inisboffin

antoobrien wrote: »

Hopefully the flat fare structure on most galway routes (is 410 an exception?) will help matters, as with Dublin Bus leap passengers had to queue with cash passengers - except when using the maximum fair.

In Dublin, the Leap fares are less than the cash fares. It all adds up! Hopefully if it is based on the cash/flat fare here, they will discount that on the card.

Mrs OBumble

antoobrien wrote: »

Hopefully the flat fare structure on most galway routes (is 410 an exception?) will help matters, as with Dublin Bus leap passengers had to queue with cash passengers - except when using the maximum fair.

We'll still be queuing with them - our buses only have one reader installed, not two like in Dublin.

But if we can get enough people starting to use LEAP, it will hopefully speed everyone us.

antoobrien

inisboffin wrote: »

In Dublin, the Leap fares are less than the cash fares. It all adds up! Hopefully if it is based on the cash/flat fare here, they will discount that on the card.

True, but not the point I was making. Unlike Galway, where we have a flat fare for travel on the city services, Dublin Bus has a zoned fare system where the fare is calculated by counting the number "stages" passed by the bus during the journey. So if there are several people queuing, this will naturally take time.

DB also issue various tickets that are valid for a ten trips or a defined length of time e.g. 5 days, 30 days etc.. These tickets are validated at machines by the door, so one does not have to interact with the driver (unless the ticket fails to validate). This mean there is a separate, usually quicker, queue for these passengers.

When using the leap cards in Dublin, unless you'll be using the maximum fare you can't use the "cash" variant of the leapcard on the validators, you have to queue with the cash punters, which can take some time.

Hopefully they'll put these validators on the Galway buses (haven't noticed them) to get the most out of the leapcard.

Not relevant to Galway but a big advantage of leapcard for DB passengers is that for many years DB have refused to give change for driver safety reasons, instead issuing change receipts that must be redeemed at DB HQ (a pain in the neck unless you are passing O'Connell St), leapcard cuts this out.

inisboffin

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

We'll still be queuing with them - our buses only have one reader installed, not two like in Dublin.

But if we can get enough people starting to use LEAP, it will hopefully speed everyone us.

Mrs O'B, any idea if there will be a price incentive, like in Dublin to use them?
I don't think convenience alone will work (particularly since there are two fares elsewhere, and the whole topping up thing).
Educated guesses and inside information is what I'm in search of!:D

antoobrien

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

We'll still be queuing with them - our buses only have one reader installed, not two like in Dublin.

Bugger, maybe we should start requesting that they be installed. Being able to legally skip queues would make the benefits of it more obvious.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But if we can get enough people starting to use LEAP, it will hopefully speed everyone us.

inisboffin wrote: »

Mrs O'B, any idea if there will be a price incentive, like in Dublin to use them?

I was on a Dublin bus over the summer, lots of cash fares still being paid despite the cash saving, so it seems that price isn't enough.

Not sure why, maybe it's the fact that one has to load the card at shops (unless using the Luas/Dart - one can use the ticket machines to top up) or the risk of loss/theft (registration of the card mitigates this).

I asked a conductor on the Dart one evening (about two years ago) about the uptake of the cards, said it was slow but gradually more people were using them. We'll just have to see.

inisboffin

antoobrien wrote: »

B
I was on a Dublin bus over the summer, lots of cash fares still being paid despite the cash saving, so it seems that price isn't enough.

Not sure why, maybe it's the fact that one has to load the card at shops (unless using the Luas/Dart - one can use the ticket machines to top up) or the risk of loss/theft (registration of the card mitigates this).

I asked a conductor on the Dart one evening (about two years ago) about the uptake of the cards, said it was slow but gradually more people were using them. We'll just have to see.

Almost everyone I know who is a moderate bus user in Dublin has a leap card. I live in Galway and I have one. However I've been with friends enough times to notice they've forgotten to top it up (the lack of online thing is daft), or simply forgotten it. I think the heavy users opt for a pass. But even if you're only using the Leap a few times a week, you save a good bit. I strongly hope they discount the fare on them so we don't have 'Pale envy' yet again

Cocolola

Would someone be able to explain to me how this works?

I use City Direct at least twice a day on weekdays. I buy a monthly ticket for €62 (I'm a student but they refuse to sell student monthly tickets anymore, I'm still hugely p***ed off at this :mad:) as it's too much hassle trying to always have the exact change for single fares and show this ticket each time I board.

First of all, if I had a student LEAP card, would it essentially be the same thing? As in could I load a monthly ticket onto in and then use it when boarding each time?
And secondly, is it likely that CD will have a discount on the monthly fare or will it still be €62 and so the only "benefit" of using the LEAP card would be that rather than having to buy the ticket from the driver and hold everyone up you just do it online?

Sorry if those are stupid questions.

joeKel73

An article on it from the Connacht Tribune in July...

http://connachttribune.ie/leap-cards-bring-cut-galway-bus-fares/ wrote:

A new prepaid Leap card system to be rolled out on Galway city bus services in September will offer reduced fares to passengers.

The card will be introduced in the city first by Bus Éireann before being used on public transport buses in the rest of the county.

The cards can be purchased from accredited outlets for €5 and credit bought for them as pre-paid fares. Bus fares on all city routes will be up to 16% cheaper.

It will operate along the lines of similar transport cards in other countries, like the Oyster Card in London, and can be used on the Luas, the Dart, short-hop Irish Rail trains and on the buses in Cork, where it has already been rolled out. It will be introduced in Limerick later in the year.

Bus drivers in Galway will be offered training to use the special TGX boxes which are currently being installed on all city buses.

Nicola Cooke, Media and PR Manager for Bus Éireann, said Galway City was being used as a ‘test bed’ before the Leap card would be rolled out on county bus routes.

“It is an ‘e purse product’ and fares will be cheaper using the Leap card. It does mean a drop in revenue for us but we are introducing this in line with international practice.

“It should attract more passengers. There was a huge jump in passenger numbers in Galway city in 2013, possibly helped by dedicated priority bus lanes, real time electronic information at bus-stops and the increase of public confidence in the bus service,” she said.

A total of 1.2 million passenger journeys are now being recorded annually on one of the city’s successful bus routes – the Doughiska one.

Read more in today’s Connacht Sentinel

antoobrien

Cocolola wrote: »

Would someone be able to explain to me how this works?

I use City Direct at least twice a day on weekdays. I buy a monthly ticket for €62 (I'm a student but they refuse to sell student monthly tickets anymore, I'm still hugely p***ed off at this :mad:) as it's too much hassle trying to always have the exact change for single fares and show this ticket each time I board.

The operators can chose what tickets they make available, so I doubt the lack of a monthly student ticket will change.

Cocolola wrote: »

First of all, if I had a student LEAP card, would it essentially be the same thing? As in could I load a monthly ticket onto in and then use it when boarding each time?

The use of the "ticket" will remain the same, you'll validate it when entering the bus.

Cocolola wrote: »

And secondly, is it likely that CD will have a discount on the monthly fare or will it still be €62 and so the only "benefit" of using the LEAP card would be that rather than having to buy the ticket from the driver and hold everyone up you just do it online?

That's up to CD. There are various 3rd party operators that use leapcards e.g. Swords Expressand, afaik they all give some kind of discount.

However, as previously noted you have to collect/active travel credit bought online at an outlet you nominate yourself, so it's probably as handy to top up the card at the shop and oth bother with online topup.

Mrs OBumble

I have absolutely zero inside information.

But my educated guesses:

The fare determinations set by the NTA last December included cheaper fares in Cork for Leap card (mm ... saying that I can't remember if it was bus and train or just bus) - with a requirement that Leap be introduced by a certain time. Because it wasn't, IE are paying penalties until they do have LEAP working down there.

The determinations didn't have a LEAP discount for Galway this year. But I'd expect that next year's one will.

Re City Direct: yes, they don't offer a monthly student card. But they do offer a substantial discount on route 412 - yes I realise that this is no use if you live down the far bit of Cappagh Rd (I think it is) where the 412 doesn't go. What you will be able to do is load a chunk of money onto the card, and then just use it as required, without having to worry about change. But you will need to keep an eye on your balance, so that you top up in a shop (yes, I'm hoping to compile a list of 'em) before you run out. Or you can put an adult monthly ticket on them, too.


Some of the bus drivers over in the Commuting and Transport forum have observed that the uptake among locals is slower than it is among non-nationals - and that matches by observations around the TaxSaver card too. And that's even with the savings that are too be made. I'm not sure what the whole answer is- but with the number of people who move to Galway (ie see the effect in website traffic each September), focussing on blow-ins will hopefully achieve some kind of critical mass here.

Carawaystick

this seems to say the leap fare is 1.60 ( if the cash fare is 1.90)

charlie_says

spiritcrusher wrote: »

LEAP cards are great, used them all the time when I lived in Dublin. The only annoying thing about LEAP cards is that if you top up online you still have to go into a shop that sells them to activate the new balance. Essentially making it a completely pointless way of topping up.

Erm, who thought of that?

edit: also can you use this with the tax saver ticket yoke, I'm not familiar with it myself but a foreign friend might gain from this LEAP stuff

ethernet

spiritcrusher wrote: »

LEAP cards are great, used them all the time when I lived in Dublin. The only annoying thing about LEAP cards is that if you top up online you still have to go into a shop that sells them to activate the new balance. Essentially making it a completely pointless way of topping up.

You choose where you want to collect the top up (there's also automated/recurring top-ups):

ethernet

charlie_says wrote: »

Erm, who thought of that?

edit: also can you use this with the tax saver ticket yoke, I'm not familiar with it myself but a foreign friend might gain from this LEAP stuff

Two main reasons:

1. Dublin Bus has ****ty ticket machines with very little memory and processing power and they aren't Internet-connected (even if they are, using 3G/GPRS will only add further delay). Maybe they'll be upgraded this century.
2. To reduce the time taken - you want to keep the card reading to milliseconds. Checking for updates for the card on slow hardware makes the whole thing even slower - it could be in the order of seconds!

spiritcrusher

ethernet wrote: »

You choose where you want to collect the top up (there's also automated/recurring top-ups):

I know that but it still is of no benefit to someone like me who lived outside a bus stop but a 10 minute walk from the nearest payzone shop. So if my LEAP was out of credit I couldn't just top up in the house and hop on the bus.
Now if I was right beside a Luas or Dart line it would've been grand as for some reason those card readers activate the new credit.
But if that screen shot you've posted is right it seems to suggest that City Direct buses can activate the top up so for those using their routes there should be no issues.

Mr. G

So has anyone successfully tried using their leap card on any Bus Eireann/CD bus in town?

Crumbs868

inisboffin wrote: »

Mrs O'B, any idea if there will be a price incentive, like in Dublin to use them?
I don't think convenience alone will work (particularly since there are two fares elsewhere, and the whole topping up thing).
Educated guesses and inside information is what I'm in search of!:D

Don' expect a price 'decrease' for leap. How the fare difference arose in dublin was they increased the cash fare but didn't increase the leap fare. So I'd be very very surprised if cash fares don't increase in the near future to encourage leap cards

Laviski

Mr. G wrote: »

So has anyone successfully tried using their leap card on any Bus Eireann/CD bus in town?

answered by the link in this post

Carawaystick wrote: »

this seems to say the leap fare is 1.60 ( if the cash fare is 1.90)

http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=386

It will be available on Bus Éireann services in Galway City from Sunday, 28 September 2014

inisboffin

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Don' expect a price 'decrease' for leap. How the fare difference arose in dublin was they increased the cash fare but didn't increase the leap fare. So I'd be very very surprised if cash fares don't increase in the near future to encourage leap cards

Had it been a while though before a fare increase in Dublin? There have been fare increases here in the last year. I see your point, but am just wondering how related they are. Based on that, even if it's only for a while, we should get a decrease on the *current* cash fare, if (as they say) they are 16% cheaper. Otherwise they need to put the cash fare up in the next three days.:)

Mrs OBumble

Update:

I was able to check my Leap card balance in Easons today, and add credit to it. Staff in one of the other Payzone operators had some difficulty working out how to do it, though.

October TaxSaver tickets aren't Leapcards :-( Fingers crossed for November.

I've written up a basic guide to how Leap works in Galway.

Cocolola

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Update:
I've written up a basic guide to how Leap works in Galway.

That's a great guide, much better than the actual website for Leap! Thanks a mil

littleteapot

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Update:

I was able to check my Leap card balance in Easons today, and add credit to it. Staff in one of the other Payzone operators had some difficulty working out how to do it, though.

October TaxSaver tickets aren't Leapcards :-( Fingers crossed for November.

I've written up a basic guide to how Leap works in Galway.

I'm really surprised that you were able to do anything with your leap card in Easons. I work there and the staff have had absolutely no training on the leap cards. As far as I'm aware, there's a pile of them sitting in a back office waiting for someone to give us a heads up as to how they work and how the leap machine they attached to our payzone machine works. I'm hoping to start using one myself but it seems to be such a mess at the moment.

Your guide is very good though, thanks for that

Laviski

littleteapot wrote: »

I'm really surprised that you were able to do anything with your leap card in Easons. I work there and the staff have had absolutely no training on the leap cards. As far as I'm aware, there's a pile of them sitting in a back office waiting for someone to give us a heads up as to how they work and how the leap machine they attached to our payzone machine works. I'm hoping to start using one myself but it seems to be such a mess at the moment.

Your guide is very good though, thanks for that

yup went in there on Saturday and girls at front desk said they only offer top up facility as the cards have not arrived and would need to order card direct.

joeKel73

Anybody used one on a bus here yet? Have the drivers been briefed?

antoobrien

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Don' expect a price 'decrease' for leap. How the fare difference arose in dublin was they increased the cash fare but didn't increase the leap fare.

No they didn't, the timing of the introduction (when DB had already submitted their fare plan to the NTA, who set the leap fare levels) just makes it look that way.

The leap card was fully introduced (after a several month limited trial) on 12th December 2011, the NTA granted DB a fare increase on 22 December to be effected on January first 2012 - so many people will have the false impression you have.

Mrs OBumble

Cocolola wrote: »

That's a great guide, much better than the actual website for Leap! Thanks a mil

Cheers, that's what I was aiming for :-)

gordongekko

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Cheers, that's what I was aiming for :-)

The maxol in Westside and the one in salthill have the same owner so it's likely to be available to buy/top up in salthill as well as Westside.

Stevolende

Are there any savings over a monthly pass, like comparing the 2 would it cost less over a month?
I think a monthly pass saves you about a week's payment for a 2 journey day. Plus travel is unlimited

Not sure what I'm hearing so far, but will need to get a pass for October imminently since it starts tomorrow.
Is this more like an Oyster card is in London, each trip has a reduced rate fare rather than inside the time limit on the pass travel is unlimited?

antoobrien

BÉ have announced their prices for Galway, for details see their page: http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=386. The card can be used on the city services (they to refer to it as the red zone, as cork has two zones red and green).

The prices they have announced are:

16% discount on cash fare for single trips (works out at about €1.60 for an adult).

Multi trip tickets:
Valid|Adult|Student|Child
1 Day| 4.10| N/A| N/A
7 Day| 20.20|17.80 | 8.20
Calendar Month|65.50|56.50|31.00

catgalway

My daughter used her today...well tried to...it charged her 97c for school child (90c) so bus driver had no choice but to let her on for free...no complaints here Looks like they have a wee problem with school fares

joeKel73

antoobrien wrote: »

Valid|Adult|Student|Child
1 Day| 4.10| N/A| N/A
7 Day| 20.20|17.80 | 8.20
Calendar Month|65.50|56.50|31.00

So no savings on the weekly or monthly passes?

antoobrien

J o e wrote: »

So no savings on the weekly or monthly passes?

Do you have the cash prices?

joeKel73

Day, week and month passes are same as your table above;
http://www.galwaytransport.info/2008/12/fares-for-galway-city-bus-services-city.html
http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=331#Galway

Stevolende

THe monthly pass has been €65.50 for the last while.
I think weekly was about €19.50 but I haven't had one in a while.

Stevolende

Still not clear about how you are charged while using this, is it per journey or unlimited travel inside the time it's issued for?
If the former then the pass makes more sense.

Unless they're about to get rid of passes.

Mrs OBumble

antoobrien wrote: »

Do you have the cash prices?

Bus Eireann:

Weekly city-service tickets:
Adult: €20.20
Student: €17.80
Child: €8.20

Monthly city-service tickets:
Adult: €65.50
Student: €56.50
Child €31.00



City Direct:
WEEKLY TICKETS:

Adult €20
* Up to 16 years €15

MONTHLY TICKETS:

Adult €62




So - no fare reductions at the moment, and in fact a slight increase for City Direct.

But remember that (apart from the day-pass) BE don't set their own fares.

The NTA do that, as part of the annual fare-determination process. In the last couple of years, that's happened at the beginning of December.

So my best guess is that they will get the hiccups out of the system in the next couple of months and then have fare increases that apply to cash fares only, not to Leap, from December.


In Dublin, as well as having a lower fare if you pay with Leap (as per Oyster), there is also some daily-capping being applied so in effect your first X trips are at usual rate, but the rest are free for that day.

joeKel73

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In Dublin, as well as having a lower fare if you pay with Leap (as per Oyster), there is also some daily-capping being applied so in effect your first X trips are at usual rate, but the rest are free for that day.

Will this not automatically happen, if you use the card for more than 2 trips I'd have assumed it went down as a daily pass instead. Or do you need to explicitly request a daily pass when getting your first bus?

antoobrien

Stevolende wrote: »

Still not clear about how you are charged while using this, is it per journey or unlimited travel inside the time it's issued for?

One or the other depending on what you've paid for. If you've paid for a cash purse it's by trip.

Stevolende wrote: »

If the former then the pass makes more sense.

The passes only make sense if you will use more than the price of the pass in single fare tickets. Otherwise it's throwing away money.

J o e wrote: »

Will this not automatically happen, if you use the card for more than 2 trips I'd have assumed it went down as a daily pass instead. Or do you need to explicitly request a daily pass when getting your first bus?

I don't know when they updated the leapcard website, but it appears that capping is only applies to the DB, Dart/Commuter & Luas services.

Mrs OBumble

J o e wrote: »

Will this not automatically happen, if you use the card for more than 2 trips I'd have assumed it went down as a daily pass instead. Or do you need to explicitly request a daily pass when getting your first bus?

I understand that it happens automatically - but haven't tried it myself. But it's only in Dublin. there is no capping in Galway yet - shure'n we've barely started using the cards!

Intifada

So do these actually save you money, or is it a case of bumping up the paper-ticket fares in order to force you to use the card to 'save' money like they do in London?

I actually emailed them at the end of May and they told me they had no plans to roll it out to Galway.

inisboffin

*bit confused*
So if I use it as a single journey what's the price?
Cash fare is 1.90 on BE so will a 'leap version' of a single fare be 1.60?
(I'm basing this on the percentage given and similar to how the Dublin model works).

antoobrien

Intifada wrote: »

So do these actually save you money

16% on a single fare cash ticket paid for on the bus (approx 30c).

Even if it was the same fare as cash tickets, I'd get this as it saves me from having to remember to bring change.

Registering it also gives protection against loss or theft.

Mrs OBumble

inisboffin wrote: »

*bit confused*
So if I use it as a single journey what's the price?
Cash fare is 1.90 on BE so will a 'leap version' of a single fare be 1.60?
(I'm basing this on the percentage given and similar to how the Dublin model works).

Right now, there has been no announcement about fare differences.

I expect that a single fare will currently cost 1.90 on a Leap card - and I will be testing this the next time Mr O'B and I go somewhere by bus. (Maybe Friday if you're lucky.)

My bet is that in December this year, cash fares will increase, Leap ones will increase by less or possibly by zero.

The 1.60 was speculation from someone, based on the quoted 16% on the BE leap. It's not anything official.

Intifada

antoobrien wrote: »

Even if it was the same fare as cash tickets, I'd get this as it saves me from having to remember to bring change.

The flip side to this is not always knowing how much you have on your card or being able to top it up, as opposed to having coins in your pocket you can count.

I lived in London for many years before and after the Oyster card introduction and it's not really better in any way, other than avoiding the extortionate prices they set for not using it.