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No leaving cert/experience.

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  • #62
    Tzardine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭Tzardine


    LC 2015 wrote: »

    I'm probably not more than a few months older than you but I went down a similar path and it couldn't have worked out better for me.

    You write a lot and make some bold claims but you never said how you made your millions yet.

    Your definition of "could not have worked out better" might be completely different to mine.

    Your post reads like a self help book. Full of positivity but lacking reality.


  • #63
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Tzardine wrote: »
    You write a lot and make some bold claims but you never said how you made your millions yet.

    Your definition of "could not have worked out better" might be completely different to mine.
    He also finished his leaving. So we might have different meanings of "went down a similar path" also.


  • #64
    padma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    Left school myself at 15 went in to a heavy labour job for years, its all good, I don't complain. When I was looking for a job, I walked the streets of my city knocking on doors, asking to speak to the manager, a lot of them ran me out of their business. You will be discriminated against because of your age, gender, looks, what clothes you wear, how confident you are etc etc etc..

    When I finally met someone who'd chat with me properly I told him I never worked a day in my life, bar cutting grass every summer since I was 12, helping my dad in building sites putting up hand rails and helping out friends fathers cutting hedges and so on so forth.

    Told him I hated school, saw no point in it, was mad to leave and since I did I'm on the hunt for a job. Told him there is 50 years work in me before I'm 65 and I plan on getting a foot in the door of a company and working my way up to management.

    Told to start there and then emptying container loads of furniture by hand, no forklifts. That first day I sweated, my back sore, pains in muscles I'd never used before, but at the end of the week I had my pay cheque, but no bank account.

    Since then I've been in one long term job over 6 years where I did work my way in to a 45k salary, but lost due to the recession and am back doing heavy lifting again on a low salary.

    There is now another 30 years left in me, and if I was 15 again I'd go the path of college, as Ive seen guys who couldn't lift a heavy box sitting in an office on 50 grand a year working 9-5 every day, while for me it's start at the bottom again and work my way up, even though nowadays management position are given to those with degrees, I know with hard work I'll get there again.

    I have bills to pay, family to feed and a roof to put over my head, I have no interest whatsoever in I.T, a trade, or any college degree and I dont believe that these things lead one to happiness in their lives, but, I do feel they certainly make life a lot easier.

    Im not writing this for you to follow my path, but for you to make up your own mind about what it is you'd like your life to be like in 20 years time.


  • #65
    hfallada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    The Irish school system is deeply flawed. Its a one size fits all approach which is bound to fail. It assumes everyone wants to go to third level and therefore its structured for someone to go to third level. But Germany has secondary schools like our system and others which are for people who want to do apprenticeships. The students in the schools for apprenticeships still learn foreign languages etc, but classes are more practical. It prepares people to work in industries such as car making, etc. It acknowledges not everyone wants to go to University and not everyone is cut out for university.

    You could say its dreadful we dont have the apprenticeship style schools in Ireland, but we dont have the industries big enough for them. But the irish school system needs to be less one size fits all.


  • #66
    The One Who Knocks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭The One Who Knocks


    Tzardine wrote: »
    You write a lot and make some bold claims but you never said how you made your millions yet.

    Your definition of "could not have worked out better" might be completely different to mine.

    Your post reads like a self help book. Full of positivity but lacking reality.

    Regardless of the "self help-y vibe" from his post, the kid seems to have done alright for himself.
    LC 2015 wrote: »
    jjbrien wrote: »
    OP have you looked into what the EB-5 visa is about?

    EB-5 Immigrant Investor

    Have you 500k or $1 million usd to invest over there?
    Be careful of immigation lawyers over there a lot of them will spin you a tale in order to get you cash. My OH an I did my greencard app ourself's.

    Have a look at http://www.visajourney.com might give you some free info

    Yep, it's the best option for me I think. I'm not allowed to discuss it but the project that was acquired worked out very well for me. The H1-B visa was intended to be a favour but it requires a bachelor's degree minimum so I'm ineligible. Other than that, I have no relatives that are US citizens, no extraordinary abilities, I do not intend on marrying anytime soon, the F1-OPT-H1B route takes too long, and the lottery, well it's just that - a lottery.

    As for the immigration lawyer, it's pretty much a necessity when applying for an EB-5.

    Thank you for your input though, appreciate it.

    I have to say that I agree with some of his points too, particularly about college being an inadequate preparation for the working world. I can see where he's coming from too in regards to Google.
    Traditionally, a degree from a high-profile university was a pretty surefire way to get a good job. But business leaders are now echoing Google by saying that college pedigree and major don’t matter as much as people think in hiring decisions.

    A new Gallup survey finds that in hiring decisions, only 9% of business leaders say that the school on a candidate’s diploma is “very important,” compared to 84% assessing knowledge in the field and 79% looking at applied skills.
    Public perception has certainly not caught up to the shift: 30% of the public thinks college major is a factor and 50% say it’s somewhat important. Thirty-seven percent of business leaders say it’s somewhat important in their decisions.

    There’s a similar though less pronounced gap, when it comes to college major.

    “For business leaders, what your major was, where you went, none of that matters as much—it’s the skills,” Brandon Busteed, the executive director of Gallup Education told Quartz. “They think that if you go to Princeton and you major in engineering and have the skills I’m hiring for great, but if you majored in engineering in Princeton and can’t do the job, what does it matter?”

    That might be more aspirational than true in practice. Busteed points out that many top companies still hire from a narrow set of institutions. But the survey points to a greater emphasis on hiring people with specific skills.
    School rankings have been found to matter when it comes to pay, an effect which rises over time. Graduates of elite private schools in particular get paid more according to a report from the Century Foundation. Elite industries like professional services and finance put more weight on top schools in hiring decisions.

    Google’s head of people operations Laszlo Bock told the New York Times that top graduates can lack “intellectual humility,” and that schools frequently don’t deliver on what they promise.

    “You can read those figures a couple ways,” Busteed says. “It could be that higher education is really not preparing people at all and we have a broken system, or just a fundamental misunderstanding. Either way it’s a tragedy, and either way we need a dialogue about how how to change.”

    Educators seem to think that they’re effectively preparing students for the job market: 96% of college provosts say students are prepared, compared to 14% of the public, and 11% of business leaders. If schools in general aren’t doing a good job of preparing students, then companies over time could be less willing to pay a premium pay for graduates of prestigious schools.
    Source

    At the same time, the OP doesn't sound too much like this lad. Maybe he should consider an unpaid internship or perhaps military service as previously suggested.


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  • #67
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    The One Who Knocks wrote: »
    Regardless of the "self help-y vibe" from his post, the kid seems to have done alright for himself.

    Unless him "doing alright for himself" is directly related to him dropping out of secondary school (which he/she didn't do) then I don't see the relevance. If anything, his/her lack of third level education is already holding them back.
    The One Who Knocks wrote: »
    I have to say that I agree with some of his points too, particularly about college being an inadequate preparation for the working world. I can see where he's coming from too in regards to Google.

    Source

    That article is talking about employers not having as much of a preference for graduates from more prestigious colleges than they used to. It's not talking about people who didn't even finish 'highschool'.


  • #68
    The One Who Knocks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭The One Who Knocks


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Unless him "doing alright for himself" is directly related to him dropping out of secondary school (which he/she didn't do) then I don't see the relevance. If anything, his/her lack of third level education is already holding them back.

    Actually I was referencing the 500 grand that he/she willingly dropped on a visa, and if you read that thread in its entirety it's evident that he/she did in fact drop out of school.
    MagicMarker wrote: »
    That article is talking about employers not having as much of a preference for graduates from more prestigious colleges than they used to. It's not talking about people who didn't even finish 'highschool'.

    Yes and my point was that college is inadequate preparation for work, so much so that the likes of Google no longer have a preference for graduates anymore. I didn't mention the leaving cert, which is essentially a necessity as not even finishing it suggests a lack of motivation, unless you dropped out to do something worthwhile which that poster seems to have.


  • #69
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    The One Who Knocks wrote: »
    Actually I was referencing the 500 grand that he/she willingly dropped on a visa, and if you read that thread in its entirety it's evident that he/she did in fact drop out of school.

    Funny, in the last 4 months he's gone from planning to get 625 points in the leaving, to leaving school and paying half a million for a visa. Hmm, possibly a pinch of salt is required?
    The One Who Knocks wrote: »
    Yes and my point was that college is inadequate preparation for work, so much so that the likes of Google no longer have a preference for graduates anymore. I didn't mention the leaving cert, which is essentially a necessity as not even finishing it suggests a lack of motivation, unless you dropped out to do something worthwhile which that poster seems to have.

    Well according to the teenage millionaire himself, 9 out of 10 google staff have a third level education. That certainly seems like they prefer graduates to me.


  • #70
    Savage93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Savage93


    usurptheczar wrote: »
    Most people have gained "basic education" by the age of 13 years old, the majority that you are "taught" after that is irrelevant to most people and the information they are given will never be used again, for example, most people aren't going to become physicists, chemists or biologists, so why does every person have to study one of these subjects knowing full well they have absolutely no interest in pursuing it, if someone has an interest in one of them, fine, they can choose to study it, but other people shouldn't have to waste their time doing it. The education system now is outdated and irrelevant.

    Well , if that's the case and you know everything you shouldn't need to be on here asking for advice. IMO you, by your attitude, are unemployable. Best of luck , you'll need it all.


  • #71
    The One Who Knocks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭The One Who Knocks


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Funny, in the last 4 months he's gone from planning to get 625 points in the leaving, to leaving school and paying half a million for a visa. Hmm, possibly a pinch of salt is required?

    Possibly, although it'd take some ego to fabricate a story like that.
    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Well according to the teenage millionaire himself, 9 out of 10 google staff have a third level education. That certainly seems like they prefer graduates to me.

    I think this comes to down to the whole "correlation does not imply causation" idea. People who go to college tend to be more motivated and therefore out of the larger pool of applicants who apply for a job at Google, they're bound to find more people who happen to also have the relevant skills and abilities. Out of the much smaller pool of unqualified applicants who apply for a job at Google, a larger number of them will have the necessary skills, abilities and experience, otherwise why would they apply?

    You also have to take into account that hiring non graduates is a more recent trend, and that it may take quite a number of years before we'd see an equal percentage of non graduate employees.

    I think this is a better article to illustrate my point of view:
    After years of looking at the data, Google has found that things like college GPAs and transcripts are almost worthless in hiring. Following these revelations, the company is hiring more and more people who never even went to college.

    In an interview with The New York Times, Google's Senior Vice President for People Operations Laszlo Bock revealed that the number of degree-less hires has trended upwards as they've stopped asking for transcripts for everybody but the most recent graduates.

    "What’s interesting is the proportion of people without any college education at Google has increased over time as well," Bock said. "So we have teams where you have 14 percent of the team made up of people who’ve never gone to college."

    Bock's critique of higher education goes beyond debunking the GPA as a hiring metric. He says the academic setting is an artificial place where people are highly trained to succeed only in a specific environment.

    "One of my own frustrations when I was in college and grad school is that you knew the professor was looking for a specific answer," Bock says. "You could figure that out, but it’s much more interesting to solve problems where there isn’t an obvious answer. You want people who like figuring out stuff where there is no obvious answer."

    After two or three years, performance at college is "completely unrelated" to performance at Google, because the skills you learn are so different and you change so much, Bock says. Source: Business Insider


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  • #72
    MouseTail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    I wonder of those 10% of non graduate Google staff, how many have no high school diploma? The OP is not debating whether to pursue third level, the kid has no formal education qualifications whatsoever. Anyone glamorising early school leaving on this thread is irresponsible imo.


  • #73
    The One Who Knocks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭The One Who Knocks


    MouseTail wrote: »
    I wonder of those 10% of non graduate Google staff, how many have no high school diploma? The OP is not debating whether to pursue third level, the kid has no formal education qualifications whatsoever. Anyone glamorising early school leaving on this thread is irresponsible imo.

    Completely agree with you there, secondary education is necessary.


  • #74
    killanena
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭killanena


    BBOC wrote: »
    Well done, Killanena and great advice there.
    Wishing you all the best in your career.

    OP, Youthreach do the Leaving Cert Applied.....maybe not in all centres, but please read and think hard on Killanena's post.
    I know you said you don't want to be in education but my advice to you (even though you don't want it) is to give it a try and I feel you will come back on here with a different view of education. School as we know it is not for everyone but there are different routes.

    I have a family member teaching LCA and the satisfaction she gets from seeing the change of attitude in her students is heartwarming, plus seeing them going on to being accepted into the course of their choice in higher education. As Killanena said no uniforms, teachers are not like the teachers in mainstream schools, no Miss, Mr etc. they give it their all but in smaller classes.

    Id like to add one more thing, after the 2 years of LCA there is a work placement program where you can do work experience wherever you want and still get paid full wages by fás during the summer after your exams and for a whole 6 months from September on. I got hired in the place I had my work experience and still working there today.


  • #75
    GarIT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    About Google, yes you can get in without a degree but you will absolutely need all your certifications e.g Java/Oracle, Microsoft and Cisco certifications.

    On looking for jobs as far as I know places like Tesco aren't really hiring people unless they have extensive retail experience, are pursuing a degree or have a degree. For people without a leaving cert there should be a lot of unskilled labour available in Africa and Asia, the visas should be easy to get too.


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