No leaving cert/experience.

26-09-2014 10:14AM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So how do people who are still at secondary school get jobs there?

Usually by contacts they have already, when I was young I had a part time job at 14 and I babysat at 13 ( a new baby ) leaving a 13 year old all day with a new baby would be considered some sort of child abuse today, yet it was un remarked on whey I was a teen.

The world of work has changed for teens any I know that are working are 17 or 18 not younger. Things have become a lot more formal as well there is not the opportunity of casual work the way there use to be. I have even seen student going through university without ever having a part time job or only working a vague few hours now and then.

Zeouterlimits · 26-09-2014 10:21AM

Hey OP,

Best of luck in this, I know it must be tough on you.
There unfortunately might not be a short term fix.

1) Are you willing / able to work for free to gain some CV experience?
2) Are you willing / able to move to areas [even countries] looking for manual labour?
3) Is there a craft you're particularly good at / interested in? Something you could apprentice at? You'd need to demonstrate your interest / motivation / devotion?
4) Have you contacted all and any friends, family and family friends?
Let them know you're looking. That you're really looking, real hungry for a job.

messrs · 26-09-2014 10:26AM

usurptheczar wrote: »

I'm looking for some advice, basically, I'm 17 and I dropped out of school when I turned 16 and I've been looking for a job ever since, I have no experience, no leaving cert and no qualifications whatsoever and I'm having absolutely no luck at all. I went to Fas when I was 16 and they told me to come back when I'm 17, I went back when I was 17 and they told me to come back when I'm 18... Anyone have advice on how to get a job in my position ?
And before anyone asks, going back to school isn't an option, anyone I have talked to has asked me is that an option and when I tell them no they still proceed to try and convince me to in a condescending manner which is quite annoying.

Hi OP, I have seen Argos are currently advertising for their Christmas staff, as im sure a lot of other places are aswell, ive seen Dealz also advertise as the seem to have new shops opening up all over! What is your location?

Other than that, do you have any contacts that could help you get a foot in the door somewhere, as in , a family member or maybe one of your parents friends working somewhere that could vouch for you and get you a start somewhere?

tomhenryford · 26-09-2014 10:31AM

Unfortunately, they are an awful lot of people looking for jobs who not only finished school but who have a degree and masters degrees who can't get anything, you're a long way down the line for potential employers considering the pool of educated youth they have to choose from.

Two things I would work on if I were you are 1) have a very good reason as to why you don't want to go back and do your Leaving Cert and 2) get rid of that 'I don't want a career at the moment' attitude you have going on there.

Do you really think any employer is remotely interested in hiring someone that has no career plan or ambition? If you even lucky enough to get called for a few interviews that would be some wake up call for you.

Even Argos who are hiring temporary Christmas staff at the moment are looking for the Leaving Cert. The only thing I think you have any chance of getting is kitchen work. Walk into every restaurant and hotel around you and say you're willing to scrub pots and I'm sure one of them will take you on.

If I was an employer and had a choice between you and someone who spent a few months scrubbing pots, I choose the person that scrubbed pots.

tomhenryford · 26-09-2014 10:32AM

messrs wrote: »

Hi OP, I have seen Argos are currently advertising for their Christmas staff, as im sure a lot of other places are aswell, ive seen Dealz also advertise as the seem to have new shops opening up all over! What is your location?

Other than that, do you have any contacts that could help you get a foot in the door somewhere, as in , a family member or maybe one of your parents friends working somewhere that could vouch for you and get you a start somewhere?

Dealz are looking for 'experienced sales assistants'. Argos require a Leaving Cert.

MagicMarker · 26-09-2014 10:33AM

OP the simple fact is that the best thing you can do for yourself is go back to school. If you have a problem with your old school then look into doing the leaving at a different school or a PLC college or something.

However, judging by your subsequent comments on education, it seems like you just don't want to do the leaving cert out of naivety and stubbornness. I can pretty much guarantee you, unless you're extremely lucky with regards to jobs over the next few years and/or you win the lottery, that will a decision you'll come to regret in the long term.

MouseTail · 26-09-2014 10:53AM

Have you thought about Youthreach? It is for early school leavers like yourself, you won't get the Leaving Cert, but you will get FETAC Level 4 or 5, and some work experience, you will also get payment of €40 for attending.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/vocational_education_and_training/youthreach.html

desertcircus · 26-09-2014 10:54AM

usurptheczar wrote: »

Most people have gained "basic education" by the age of 13 years old, the majority that you are "taught" after that is irrelevant to most people and the information they are given will never be used again, for example, most people aren't going to become physicists, chemists or biologists, so why does every person have to study one of these subjects knowing full well they have absolutely no interest in pursuing it, if someone has an interest in one of them, fine, they can choose to study it, but other people shouldn't have to waste their time doing it. The education system now is outdated and irrelevant.

The Leaving Cert is of heavily limited use in and of itself, but it's hugely important as a signal to employers that a person is willing and able to work. Without that, you're at an immediate disadvantage compared to every other job seeker with their LC, because an employer will take one look at the education section of the two CVs and automatically discount the one with no Leaving Cert. It might be frustrating, it might be outmoded, it might be irrelevant, but like it or not it's the yardstick that's in place, and not doing it will put you at a severe disadvantage for the next two decades of your life at least. Even if you find a job and impress your bosses, promotion may depend on you having a Leaving Cert. If you really dislike the LC, take a look at the international baccalaureate: some people reckon it teaches critical thinking and argument better than the mainstream options.

Winty · 26-09-2014 11:00AM

What about the British Army or Navy or if feel adventurous the French foreign legion?

You can see the world and get a trade like carpenter, bricklayer or electrician

usurptheczar · 26-09-2014 11:02AM

Do any of you guys know of any training I can get ? ^ I know of Youthreach but something that lasts nearly 2 years isn't ideal at all.

mawk · 26-09-2014 11:08AM

Op, can you please supply some demographic information abs maybe we can advise better.
Gender, location etc

A few people have asked about your interests and skills, this is important information.

In fact it would be a good idea to paste your CV here minus any contact information and I will advise you on it.

In the past 10 years I have gone from a job in centra to pulling pints to running teams of engineers making medical products to welding art pieces in my spare time and selling them. I've also been involved I'm hiring people. I'm sure I can be of some advice

usurptheczar · 26-09-2014 11:15AM

I'm a male from Dublin.
There isn't much on my cv except for what school I went to, Junior results, and then "profile" stuff like "Reliable and punctual" and "Willing to learn new skills" etc and then my contact info.

Meathlass · 26-09-2014 11:25AM

While you're looking for a job OP why don't you try and get some volunteer work. It could be helping out at an animal shelter, doing shop work for a charity etc.

That would be proof to an employer that you are 'reliable and punctual' and 'willing to learn new skills'.

I still think doing a blitz of all your local businesses and offering to do any work they have available will get you a few hours somewhere. It might be collecting glasses in a pub or washing pots in a restaurant but it's a start.

Storeybud? · 26-09-2014 11:30AM

Hi, i know what your going through and im not going to tell you to go back to education, you have your own reasons for not wanting to be there.
What are you interested in? I know you are just looking for a job but if you are smart you can incorporate your job to include training of some sort. What about a car mechanic apprentice? Young fellas love cars apparently and i managed to line up 3 interviews in one day for a lad like your self to start an apprenticeship. The trainging allowance is better than the dole and you would be fully qualifed in a few years and you would have a head start on people your own age. If your not interested in cars there are loads of different apprenticeships, look them up on solas/fas website.
Solas also do welding courses etc that only last a few months and you can get great jobs from that.
Spend a few hours doing a bit of research on solas/fas and see what interests you. Best of luck.

Delphinium · 26-09-2014 11:40AM

I have to say you show some courage in dropping out. School is torture and pointless for lots of young people. I say this as someone who teaches. The education of our children is stuck in the past and is only suited to the few who will be successful in third level. LCA is not really an option either.
But, once outside the system, it gets difficult and expensive to achieve a career. No one owes you a livivg You need to focus on your strengths and show some ability and dedication in the area of your interest. You also need to demonstrate a willingness to work and see a task through. Offer your time to voluntary work in an area where you have an interset and build up a reputation for dependability. Many jobs come from word of mouth so you need to make contacts locally. Good luck.

MouseTail · 26-09-2014 11:44AM

usurptheczar wrote: »

Do any of you guys know of any training I can get ? ^ I know of Youthreach but something that lasts nearly 2 years isn't ideal at all.

You can complete the programme in one year if you put the work in. There is very little training out there for under 18s. I would advise a one years Youthreach, and then progress to further training, an apprenticeship or work.

Jim2007 · 26-09-2014 11:46AM

usurptheczar wrote: »

Most people have gained "basic education" by the age of 13 years old, the majority that you are "taught" after that is irrelevant to most people and the information they are given will never be used again, for example, most people aren't going to become physicists, chemists or biologists, so why does every person have to study one of these subjects knowing full well they have absolutely no interest in pursuing it, if someone has an interest in one of them, fine, they can choose to study it, but other people shouldn't have to waste their time doing it. The education system now is outdated and irrelevant.

Well obviously the rest of the world does not think so, as you are learning. To be absolutely blunt about it you are unemployable and that is a terrible conclusion to reach about someone so young!

If you don't cop on, your future will consist of periods of occasional casual labor peppered with long periods of unemployment and believe me as you get older you'll realize that pushing pen is a lot easier than a shovel!

Seriously if you do not adjust your attitude and try to get some kind of education and training, you are not looking at much of a future and that is really sad.

Right Turn Clyde · 26-09-2014 12:11PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Give it a rest.

Every society ever has some young people for whom formal education simply is not a good fit at that point in their lives. Many of them get back into education later on - when their head is in the right place for it. Pushing education of people who aren't open to it is purely a waste of time.

I agree. I was one of those people. However, the OP is trying to justify his own actions by making unsubstantiated claims about the nature of third level education. So in that respect, no, I won't give it a rest.

killanena · 26-09-2014 12:21PM

usurptheczar wrote: »

I'm a male from Dublin.
There isn't much on my cv except for what school I went to, Junior results, and then "profile" stuff like "Reliable and punctual" and "Willing to learn new skills" etc and then my contact info.

I don't know about dublin but in clare you can do the leaving cert applied with the ennis youth centre and get paid by Fás while attending. Leaving cert applied is more of a practical approach to the leaving cert. You are given tasks and assignments to complete in a set time frame with an easier exam at the end of the 2 years. It is also built quite similar to a PLC course. That will get you a level 4 at least and from there you can go on to do a level 5 PLC course in any area you are interested in. Might be something to look into in dublin. Im sure there is something.

Edit:
A lot of leaving cert applied courses that are not run in schools will not require you to wear a uniform. And the + side to it being in a youth centre is that you will have access to consulars that are usually younger then the ones you would meet in school.
I am also dropped out at 16 and also hated the fact when I tried looking for work the only words I would ever hear is why don't you go back to school.. Did my LCA, a lot easier then the LC and a lot less like school and more like "pre" college :P. I am now 20 working part time and doing courses to find the exactly area of computers and technology I want to go on to college to study. Im taking my time instead of rushing into the first "good idea" that pops into my head and I hope that it will pay off.

I wish you look man and hope you one day have your ideal life

Gatling · 26-09-2014 02:22PM

usurptheczar wrote: »

I'm a male from Dublin.
There isn't much on my cv except for what school I went to, Junior results, and then "profile" stuff like "Reliable and punctual" and "Willing to learn new skills" etc and then my contact info.

Reliable when you dropped out of school certainly wouldn't use the too together been honest .
You need to literally sell yourself to a future employer .
Write your self a decent cover letter stating your strengths and and any skills you many have .
or find somebody to help you .
You also have to show your determined get help with your cv .
Then work on your sales pitch ( confidence , appearance and so on )

MouseTail · 26-09-2014 03:09PM

Delphinium wrote: »

But, once outside the system, it gets difficult and expensive to achieve a career.

It is a huge problem, young school leavers like the OP will bear an average 20% wage scar for the rest of their working lives. They are, in jargon terms a young NEET (not in education, employment or training), and Ireland has one of the highest levels of young NEETS in Europe. The disgraceful lack of apprenticeships has compounded the problem.

BBOC · 27-09-2014 02:27AM

Well done, Killanena and great advice there.
Wishing you all the best in your career.

OP, Youthreach do the Leaving Cert Applied.....maybe not in all centres, but please read and think hard on Killanena's post.
I know you said you don't want to be in education but my advice to you (even though you don't want it) is to give it a try and I feel you will come back on here with a different view of education. School as we know it is not for everyone but there are different routes.

I have a family member teaching LCA and the satisfaction she gets from seeing the change of attitude in her students is heartwarming, plus seeing them going on to being accepted into the course of their choice in higher education. As Killanena said no uniforms, teachers are not like the teachers in mainstream schools, no Miss, Mr etc. they give it their all but in smaller classes.

Ging Ging · 27-09-2014 02:46AM

OP I don't think you have listed any interests you have. What pursuits do you want to follow?
List them, even if you think they are irrelevant. Some posters may be able to suggest related career advice.

happywithlife · 27-09-2014 03:28AM

You've certainly made things much harder for yourself by choosing to compete in an already tough job market. You need to loose the attitude (as I, an outsider see it). 2 years is too long of a commitment? No employer wants to hear you're looking for temporary work as they don't want the hassle & expense of training you in (to even the most menial of jobs) only for u to up stakes & leave after 6 months or whatever.
You need to show your tenacity now and literally keep hounding (in a polite manner) potential employers - don't be put off by an initial no. Keep going back.
In the meantime add to your cv by whatever means possible. Volunteer work with charities - anything. Animal shelters come to mind. Soup runs/kitchens that kind of stuff. Volunteer with local sports clubs - rugby season is starting - do u play? Help out with training the youngsters progress onto any coaching courses you can as it shows you are willing to learn etc.
As someone else said kitchen work. Cloakroom attendant?
Fact is you need to be prepared to work 10 times harder than everyone else to prove yourself to an employer. Those that succeed at life with our their leaving cert do so because they had an inate work ethic and get up and go attitude towards hard graft. Unfortunately so far I haven't gotten this feeling in your posts to date. Rather (and please excuse me for being so blunt here) it sounds as if you want an easy sociable part time job to earn a few bob to be blown down the pub etc. Society doesn't owe you anything so you need to work bloody hard to scrap your way to the top.
Also, when dropping in your cv etc always always make sure you're well turned out. Leave the jeans at home. Now I'm not saying turn up in a 3 piece suit either but do a bit of research and invest in some smart trousers and a vneck or something - make yourself presentable and tidy. I know a manager in a well known supermarket chain and you'd be surprised how these little things are picked up on.
Best of luck with it!!

dimcoin · 27-09-2014 04:41AM

usurptheczar wrote:

I'm looking for some advice, basically, I'm 17 and I dropped out of school when I turned 16 and I've been looking for a job ever since, I have no experience, no leaving cert and no qualifications whatsoever and I'm having absolutely no luck at all. I went to Fas when I was 16 and they told me to come back when I'm 17, I went back when I was 17 and they told me to come back when I'm 18... Anyone have advice on how to get a job in my position ? And before anyone asks, going back to school isn't an option, anyone I have talked to has asked me is that an option and when I tell them no they still proceed to try and convince me to in a condescending manner which is quite annoying.

You can always join the service.

KCC · 27-09-2014 09:21AM

I know you said people have been condescending towards you but I would say they are frustrated because you are so clearly misguided and they know that you are setting yourself up for a hard life. Anyone I know who dropped out of school early has bitterly regretted it in years to come.

However, in the interests of being helpful, you could consider an apprenticeship, the army, being a cleaner, working in a creche, being a waiter, working as a care assistant, shop assistant, valeting cars, working in a kitchen, cleaning hotel room, cleaning windows, becoming a painter, being a bar man, collecting glasses, etc. You could learn how to drive a truck/bus/train? You could be a taxi driver? Another option may be working in sales - it doesn't suit everyone but the potential commission earned might drive you.

What are you interested in? What do you like to do? You could figure out what you want in the long term - maybe you could set up your own business in the future?

Tzardine · 27-09-2014 09:57AM

dimcoin wrote: »

You can always join the service.

Or the priesthood.

SPM1959 · 27-09-2014 11:04AM

A friend of mine, left school quite young, smart guy but sitting in a class room wasn't for him. Got a job in a pub lifting glasses. Fast forward a number of years and he is managing an extremely popular bar. Earning very, very decent money.
I have also a number of friends who are highly educated but struggling to get junior roles in multi nationals etc.

I'd agree about blitzing local businesses with your CV. Once you have a foot in the door, it's then your chance to shine.

Stay positive and motivated. Things can improve for you - if you want them to bad enough.

LC 2015 · 27-09-2014 11:29AM

Hi OP,

I'm probably not more than a few months older than you but I went down a similar path and it couldn't have worked out better for me.

Provided you have ambition and a relentless work ethic, you're in a very lucky position. Every single other thing you need to succeed can be learned. In fact, you now share something in common with the likes of Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Walt Disney, Andrew Carnegie and of course Richard Branson. All of these billionaires either never went to school or else dropped out at 16 like yourself. Now I'm not saying that dropping out automatically makes you a billionaire, you've got a VERY though life ahead of you. However, reaching 7 figures or at the very least, financial independence is a lot more achievable than you think. I'd even argue that you've got the advantage over 90% of the posters on this thread.

So first and foremost, I applaud you for taking a risk by leaving school. Formal education is outdated. You only have to look at the numbers to see how big the issue of over-qualification is. There are 5000 janitors in the US alone with PhD's, and around 20,000 parking lot attendants with a bachelor's degree or more. Don't get me wrong, it's still absolutely necessary for certain professions but for the majority - nope. Take Google for example, around 10% of their workforce don't have college degrees. College doesn't teach you the skills necessary to succeed in the 21st century, they come with experience & independent learning.

I think it's fair to say that a lot of the posters here have been through the whole education system and came out the other end a cog in the wheel - and there's nothing wrong with that. If you want to be employed by someone else, then you're stacking the odds against yourself by not getting a degree. I completely agree with them on that point. However this also makes them incredibly biased. Formal education is just one path to success. I used to hear teachers in school say things along the lines of: "Richard Branson is a billionaire because he's a genius, not because he dropped out of school." This is the excuse they use as to why they didn't follow their follow their dreams or become rich and successful. (Nothing against teachers in general, just single-minded ones

) Who can blame them though? They have to believe their job is meaningful and therefore have to see the value in 3rd level education. The truth is it only takes two things to achieve your dreams in life, ambition and a relentless work ethic. The further you go down the route of formal education, the more risk averse you become and the less likely you are to become financially independent.

You've turned your back on the education system and that's great, but do not turn your back on education. In the words of Mandela: “Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.” He couldn't be more right there. Stop watching tv, stop playing video-games and start learning. Read, code - do whatever it is that you love and become the best at it. You need to use any spare moment that you have to develop and better yourself, otherwise you will fail. Start with Think and Grow Rich, How to Win Friends and Influence People, The 4 Hour Work-Week, Rich Dad Poor Dad, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, The Personal MBA, Outliers: The Story of Success and Never Get a "Real" Job. There's dozens more. Once you've read them then start working on your skills, Udemy and Codecademy are great resources. Even if you don't intend on becoming a programmer I'd still recommend that you learn to code, it teaches you how to think. Surround yourself in this environment - listen to podcasts, read every day, talk to successful people. You are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with.

You mentioned that you need money to pursue other interests. I can only speak from experience but there's an abundance of ways to make money on the internet alone. If you're completely new the concept head on over to Smart Passive Income and Pat Flynn will get you up to date. I'll just give you 3 tips for navigating the whole "online income" area.

1. Yes, It's entirely possible.
2. There are 0 shortcuts, no get rich schemes. It takes a sh*tload of work.
3. Never pay for information.

Just a side note in regards to failure. Do not fear it. More than likely you're going to fail again and again. Never become defeated, learn from your mistakes and have the tenacity to try again and again - and then some. We as a country have such a negative attitude towards failure and it really saddens me. Sure everyone will wish you the best of luck on your first venture but very quickly become pessimistic on the 2nd, 3rd or 20th attempt. I can assure you it's an entirely different attitude and culture across the pond. (Have you any immediate relatives that happen to be US Citizens? If you could get a green card it would make your life infinitely easier) The entrepreneurial journey is a very lonely one, but by far the most rewarding, so from the bottom of my heart I wish you the best of luck!

This will be my only post on this thread, as I'm sure I've p*ssed off quite a number of people, but quite frankly I do not have time to argue. Hopefully I've inspired you though.

I'll leave you with one of my favourite quotes from the man himself "Stay hungry, stay foolish." - Steve Jobs.

MagicMarker · 27-09-2014 11:54AM

LC 2015 wrote: »

Take Google for example, around 10% of their workforce don't have college degrees.

Meaning 90% of their workforce do have college degrees. Confirmation bias, look it up.

No leaving cert/experience.

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