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NEW Jaguar XE

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    #32
    HandsomeDan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 843 ✭✭✭HandsomeDan


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    On a tangent, but I can't take any post seriously that includes the phrase "wrong wheel drive" - sorry

    I've driven several BMWs at this stage - E39 and E60's including a 525 MSport and 530d - and they're nothing to write home about.. slow, small, noisy and very badly laid out interiors IMO

    The E39 still looks well externally but it's really aged badly otherwise. The E60 looks good in black, but the iDrive is terrible (and literally clunky), the controls are all over the place and having "wrong way" wipers is a cheapskate move for a supposedly "premium" car

    The 5 is supposed to be an A6 alternative but I can tell you the C6/C7 A6 surpasses it in every way. Pitch it against an A4 and you have a fairer battle. Similarly the 3 is better pitched against an A3 these days.

    What they have more than any other car in that segment is badge appeal, but the engineering and design has been lagging behind for years.

    I feel the same way but the opposite in reverse. The e60 feels a class ahead of the last a6 which imo feels like a big nose heavey plastic box.

    First gen idrive was dodge ok. But bmw were rockin that **** in 2003 well ahead of rest. Idrive type controls are now pretty much the standard accross luxo cars. Current gen idrive is really excellent.


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    #33
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,736 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    HandsomeDan wrote: »
    I feel the same way but the opposite in reverse. The e60 feels a class ahead of the last a6 which imo feels like a big nose heavey plastic box.

    We'll have to agree to disagree :) I had several E60s for a few weeks and the only one that was liveable was the 525 MSport. Even then the interior felt dated, awkward, and it was tiny in comparison to my own A6

    My A6 (C6 04 model but 05 plate but not much gap really between the model ages) is bigger, more logically laid out, the MMI is a far better system than the iDrive of the same era, feels more solid and better built, and the 3.0 TDI tied to the tiptronic gearbox is a lot quicker on the uptake than the BMW was.

    Still, that's why we have choice :)


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    #34
    Hachiko
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Hachiko


    Mr.David wrote: »
    I spent 3 years of my professional life working on that car!

    I think they are over rated and over priced myself.


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    #35
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    Hachiko wrote: »
    I think they are over rated and over priced myself.

    what, professional lifes?


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    #36
    HandsomeDan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 843 ✭✭✭HandsomeDan


    OSI wrote: »
    Wasn't there some serious effort put into the wing mirrors on the Nissan Leaf because the car was so quiet the noise from the wing mirrors became of a source of annoyance?

    Doubt that. At cruise road noise would be the dominant source of noise, so whether the motor is electric or not would be neither here nor there.


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    #37
    YbFocus
    Registered Users Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭YbFocus


    HandsomeDan wrote: »
    Doubt that. At cruise road noise would be the dominant source of noise, so whether the motor is electric or not would be neither here nor there.

    You wouldn't believe what turbulence and nose is created by even the smallest things.
    I'd well believe this to be the case, especially without the audible sound of an engine to somewhat mask it.


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    #38
    fmcg_scribe
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭fmcg_scribe


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    On a tangent, but I can't take any post seriously that includes the phrase "wrong wheel drive" - sorry

    I've driven several BMWs at this stage - E39 and E60's including a 525 MSport and 530d - and they're nothing to write home about.. slow, small, noisy and very badly laid out interiors IMO

    The E39 still looks well externally but it's really aged badly otherwise. The E60 looks good in black, but the iDrive is terrible (and literally clunky), the controls are all over the place and having "wrong way" wipers is a cheapskate move for a supposedly "premium" car

    The 5 is supposed to be an A6 alternative but I can tell you the C6/C7 A6 surpasses it in every way. Pitch it against an A4 and you have a fairer battle. Similarly the 3 is better pitched against an A3 these days.

    What they have more than any other car in that segment is badge appeal, but the engineering and design has been lagging behind for years.

    You're entitled to your opinion but your observations seem to be very scatter gun.

    I have owned an E36 316i, E46 323i, E82 135i, E38 740i, E46 M3, E60 535d, and for (sake of balance!) a Lexus IS 300. Therefore, I'm clearly loyal to the BMW brand but I'm also realistic about the strengths and weaknesses of the cars that I've owned.

    I've never owned an E39 but I can't understand why an E39 or a E60 would classed as a small car. Small relative to what? Since the 5 series was launched over 40 years ago, it has been getting bigger and bigger. Same applies to the 3 series.

    Slow? I suppose a small engine 5 series, say, a 520d, might not impress in terms of performance but that that's why the 535d was created and there are also V8 engine versions that are not exactly slow. Admittedly, BMW cars have been getting heavier because but BMW has accepted that criticism and is working to reduce the kerb weight of next generation models currently in design and development.

    Badly laid out interiors? BMW has always made a virtue out of designing functional, driver-orientated "cockpits". Admittedly, some of the driver-orientation was blunted for the E6x 5, 6, and 7 series and E9x 3 series but it has returned in pretty much all of the BMW models currently in production.

    The E39, especially the mid-life facelift in M Sport and M5 trim, has aged really well - and arguably better than the A6 and E class from the same era. In many ways, the E39 was a high point for BMW and it has proved difficult for BMW to beat it.

    There's a lot of guff about the iDrive, especially the first generation. I'm not saying that it's beyond criticism, especially for usability, but it removed a lot of clutter from dashboards and opened up new possibilities for changing car settings, in-car entertainment, and sat-nav. In my experience, it's well engineered and it works. I sometimes think that people who write off technologies like iDrive are not comfortable with technological advances.

    BMW took a risk with launching it, evaluated feedback, and made improvements to incrementally over the last 13 years. I'm reminded of the evolution of factory-fitted sat-nav systems.


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    #39
    YbFocus
    Registered Users Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭YbFocus


    fmcg_scribe wrote: »
    You're entitled to your opinion but your observations seem to be very .....

    Maybe you haven't been around much scribe but everytime someone mentions bmw Kaiser comes along and runs them into the ground.
    You must learn to accept it and let him to it.

    I have an e60 530d and it's not slow, dated, crap inside etc. But don't engage him :)


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    #40
    fmcg_scribe
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭fmcg_scribe


    YbFocus wrote: »
    Maybe you haven't been around much scribe but everytime someone mentions bmw Kaiser comes along and runs them into the ground.
    You must learn to accept it and let him to it.

    I have an e60 530d and it's not slow, dated, crap inside etc. But don't engage him :)

    You're probably right. :-)

    I'm the first to say that a person's choice of car is a very personal thing - and that it might say something about them.

    Equally, people who care about cars and driving can sometimes air strong opinions.

    That said, there's no room in these discussions for armchair generals and bar room philosophers.


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    #41
    HandsomeDan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 843 ✭✭✭HandsomeDan


    YbFocus wrote: »
    You wouldn't believe what turbulence and nose is created by even the smallest things.
    I'd well believe this to be the case, especially without the audible sound of an engine to somewhat mask it.

    Didn't say Nissan didn't want quiet wing mirrors (what manufacturer wouldn't). What I said is that as tyre roar is by far the dominant noise when cruising, for both elctric and ICE, the leaf hardly uniquely needs quiet wing mirrors.


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    #42
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    fmcg_scribe wrote: »
    I sometimes think that people who write off technologies like iDrive are not comfortable with technological advances

    I think a lot of it comes from journos doing a short test drive, who don't have time to learn the system. Once upon a time, they used to complain that Mercedes put too many functions on a column stalk.

    If you tell people often enough that something is confusing, they will be primed to find issues.


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    #43
    HandsomeDan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 843 ✭✭✭HandsomeDan


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    I think a lot of it comes from journos doing a short test drive, who don't have time to learn the system. Once upon a time, they used to complain that Mercedes put too many functions on a column stalk.

    If you tell people often enough that something is confusing, they will be primed to find issues.

    I hear you, but in fairness the original idrive was pretty bad


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    #44
    Mr.David
    Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Mr.David


    HandsomeDan wrote: »
    Didn't say Nissan didn't want quiet wing mirrors (what manufacturer wouldn't). What I said is that as tyre roar is by far the dominant noise when cruising, for both elctric and ICE, the leaf hardly uniquely needs quiet wing mirrors.

    Not really.....road noise and wind noise occupy very different parts of the acoustic spectrum.

    What's interesting is that often the absolute magnitude of noise is not a primary driver of poor customer feedback, but instead changes in the noise are the issue. For example, I'm sure everyone has had that experience of only realising how loud the road noise was on a vehicle when the road surface changes from rough to smooth and the noise is greatly reduced.

    Wing mirrors have a huge impact on wind noise, the majority of which (assuming the seals are all functioning properly) is "heard" through the side window and to a lesser extent through the windscreen.


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    #45
    HandsomeDan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 843 ✭✭✭HandsomeDan


    Mr.David wrote: »
    Not really.....road noise and wind noise occupy very different parts of the acoustic spectrum.

    Didn't say they didn't. Just saying leaf is hardly unique in its need for quiet wing mirrors.


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    #46
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,141 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    I think Jaguars mistake here is adopting the German approach of same sausage, different size. I like the front but it's so derivative of the XF and I feel those proportions just do not work as a well on a smaller car. The flanks and rear already look 5 years old to me. A lot more flair was needed I think.


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    #47
    HandsomeDan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 843 ✭✭✭HandsomeDan


    The XE looks like a car from 7 years ago inside and out.

    Technology wise it looks interesting.


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    #48
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,736 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    YbFocus wrote: »
    Maybe you haven't been around much scribe but everytime someone mentions bmw Kaiser comes along and runs them into the ground.
    You must learn to accept it and let him to it.

    I have an e60 530d and it's not slow, dated, crap inside etc. But don't engage him :)

    Perhaps because I'm tired of almost every thread on this forum involving another marque or model being turned into a discussion about how wonderful BMWs are. Last I checked this was a Motors forum not a BMW love-in.

    But continue... :rolleyes:


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    #49
    YbFocus
    Registered Users Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭YbFocus


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Perhaps because I'm tired of almost every thread on this forum involving another marque or model being turned into a discussion about how wonderful BMWs are. Last I checked this was a Motors forum not a BMW love-in.

    But continue... :rolleyes:

    It's nobody's problem if the majority own and praise their BMW's, what harm in that. Nobody is on here showing off there car.
    They are talking across the class that the XE falls into. If it starts to get more BMW centralised thats because some of the contributors own them and thats what they know.
    Me, I'd own that XE before any BMW equal to it, I'm not tied to BMW in any way at all. It's my first and it may be my last who knows.

    I like my BMW at the minute though and every post I come onto motors to make isn't to run Audi into the ground, which is something to look at through your posts.

    Now I'm not getting into it with you, just asking you to lay off the BMW thrashing because there is no need for it. Sure, the whole place jokes and rips the p1ss and thats fine and funny, we get a good kick ripping alfa's also :)

    But you come on like a general man, just relax and let people have what they want without running it into the ground.

    You sure live up to your name man :)


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    #50
    Hachiko
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Hachiko


    mossym wrote: »
    what, professional lifes?

    lol, well the cars themselves. But it does look good but i would not buy one, a GT-R would be more up my street.


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    #51
    L-M
    Registered Users Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    Stallingrad wrote: »
    Am I missing a thread on the new XE, does no one care? New entrant into 3 series territory should be big news.

    JAGUAR_XE_S_03_L_XES_LANDINGPAGE_Hero2-device_desktop-1366x380_tcm102-113015_desktop_1366x379.jpg?v=1

    http://www.jaguar.ie/jaguar-range/xe.html

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPmj95dQna4UBxdnCLHG0XRoT18EwLwrwj4RGHd9ZT0Ase-77e

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcToZPYxAnH6er0gdRuda_6ELWqEAb8ue8oxuiqPuwfWdQM1CV-mnw


    The choice is over whelming!


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    #52
    YbFocus
    Registered Users Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭YbFocus


    Good point, but Jag have done the works with what they were given in fairness :)


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    #53
    L-M
    Registered Users Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    If the Jag was anyway cheaper than the Mazda I would buy it in a heartbeat. Looks a cracker.


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    #54
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Perhaps because I'm tired of almost every thread on this forum involving another marque or model being turned into a discussion about how wonderful BMWs are. Last I checked this was a Motors forum not a BMW love-in.

    But continue... :rolleyes:

    Just because you're tired of the BMW praise doesn't make it right to spout nonsense.
    If you're going to compare an E60 with a C6, do it objectively. Otherwise folk will rattle your cage even more.


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    #55
    greenflash
    Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭greenflash


    Can anyone who doesn't even mention the Jag XE in their post be shot?


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    #56
    RedorDead
    Registered Users Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭RedorDead


    HandsomeDan wrote: »
    I hear you, but in fairness the original idrive was pretty bad

    Yawn to all motoring discussions being off railed by BMW fanbois turning every discussion into invariably my BMW is great thread. Can we just setup a BMW fanboi subforum and be done with it?

    Back to the XE - fantastic looking car and i hope it sells well for Jaguar - finally gives them the car X Type could never be for them.


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    #57
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    I think the facelifted XF is probably the best looking car on the road. Alright, the interior shows its age. The sportbrake is certainly the prettiest estate you can buy. Quite like the look of the XJ, c-pillar quirks, chrome inside aside. Love the F type. But the XE is as bland a product as Audi could produce. Really, really underwhelming. It's not ugly, but it could be a 6 year old design. The inside in particular is incredibly disappointing.


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    #58
    vectra
    Registered Users Posts: 15,513 ✭✭✭✭vectra


    I like it and would consider one for my next car.


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    #59
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    lovely looking car, I saw a new Mazda the other day, either a 3 or 6, a real head turner, puts the 3 series to shame and this is coming from a massive bm fanboi!


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    #60
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    lovely looking car, I saw a new Mazda the other day, either a 3 or 6, a real head turner, puts the 3 series to shame and this is coming from a massive bm fanboi!
    That's the new 6. It's really a class leader to be fair, and should sell more than it is. Lack of cheaper crappy 1.6 diesel engines are probably to blame. The 3 looks good too.


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    #61
    RandomAccess
    Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭RandomAccess


    The new Jag looks great, hopefully they won't release bland entry models as it will harm the image.

    on the subject of competitors to the Germans, whatever happened with the Maserati Ghibli?
    It had some fairly positive reviews when it debuted if I remember correctly, but has it been a sales success in the UK?

    I've yet to see one over here, but that is hardly a surprise.


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