NEW Jaguar XE

Stallingrad

Am I missing a thread on the new XE, does no one care? New entrant into 3 series territory should be big news.



http://www.jaguar.ie/jaguar-range/xe.html

YbFocus

They really can't put a foot wrong these days can they. Beautiful machinery!

jimgoose

Quite tasty. :cool:

TheBigGreen

Looking forward to the daysul. Class yoke.

mailforkev

Nice front but the rest is a bit derivative and dull, particularly the rear. The XF has aged terribly so I guess they went for something a bit more generic.

New JLR engines sound promising though and it's prob quite light so it deffo has potential. It's just a bit underwhelming, I had higher hopes.

fmcg_scribe

To be fair, nobody has driven it yet, so it's important to reserve final judgement.

That said, judging from reactions on other websites during the last 24 hours, a lot of people are underwhelmed by the design of the XE, especially the interior. The exterior looks like a cross between the outgoing XF and perhaps an Audi A4. To that extent, the exterior looks a bit derivative or "me too". For all its flaws, the current Lexus IS has the more "edgy" exterior - the XE looks as bland as its German rivals.

However, the car's aluminium body gives it an advantage (for now) over its German rivals.

I'm reminded of all the hoopla when the F-Type roadster launched last year. Some elements of the UK motoring press lost the plot trying to find adjectives to praise the car. Now, over a year later:
- There is consensus that the car is too heavy.
- The residuals on the V8 version are awful (in the UK, at least).
- In the US (where luxury and premium car sales are very healthy), the car is proving difficult to move off garage forecourts (pricing is probably the main deal breaker).

Lex Luthor

meh

markhogan

Stunning looking car. Im just not a huge Jag fan tbh. But they have been making some nice motors lately.

Mr.David

I spent 3 years of my professional life working on that car!

Indricotherium

It looks like the old mondeo

ba_barabus

Mr.David wrote: »

I spent 3 years of my professional life working on that car!

A source in the know was very disappointed with the A4 rear they bolted on to the back, particularly the lights. He described it as a bit bland and already done.............and exactly what the market wants. He liked the drive and reckoned it was at least a match for the best in class. In fact he reckoned it was great around a track.

If they can get the quality right it should have no problems selling. While it's not as mind blowing as I'd like it's exactly the right styling for the segment it's in.

Not sure what parts you worked on but I approve of it.

ofcork

Looks to me like jag came up with a classy design in the xf and used it on the xj and now this xe.

Leonard Hofstadter

Have to say, I'm very underwhelmed by the interior. There's nothing wrong with it per say, and had it been launched this time last year, it would have been top of the class, I think it is marginally better than the 3 series (then again, BMW doesn't really bother making any kind of effort with their cars these days, except of course to cut costs as much as they can get away with, as evidenced by the wrong wheel drive 2 series Active Tourer thing). But in the past year we've had the new C-class, and as a result, the interior is already totally outclassed.

If everything else about the car is good (and I don't see any reason why that can't be the case), it could still be a class leader; after all the C-class is meant to be a bit underwhelming to drive without the very expensive air suspension and of course, Merc's four cylinder diesels are complete tractors, even by the (low) standards of four cylinder diesel engines they're very unrefined, and the 3 series isn't meant to be all that good without the expensive adaptive M sport suspension.

I bet a bog-standard XE will be at least as good as an adaptively or air suspended 3 series or C-class.

The CO2 is low as well, but I don't like the fact that the service interval is 21,000 miles - that's just WAY too long to be leaving the same oil in an engine no matter how many long life additives are in it.

Good to see Jaguar are still offering a six pot petrol engine (not relevant in Ireland admittedly, but nice to know that it is available in countries that aren't as obsessed with low road tax), and I note their comments about the 'Ingenium' engine being a suitable basis for an XE R model; I read somewhere (perhaps Mr David can confirm) that the new engines are a modular design a la BMW's latest engines, and it can be made a straight six; well I certainly would love to see the return of a Jaguar with a straight six engine under the bonnet .

Preset No.3

Jag in Ireland, not the best of sales. Maybe something to do with the old english marque.

The XF is lovely, expensive car. Get to 4 years old and the arse falls out of the value. I suspect you will see the same with the XE.

Leonard Hofstadter

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Jag in Ireland, not the best of sales. Maybe something to do with the old english marque.

The XF is lovely, expensive car. Get to 4 years old and the arse falls out of the value. I suspect you will see the same with the XE.

The lack of a small engine was a killer, and the smallest engine in the XF isn't very fuel efficient. The X-type (which was a glorified Mondeo don't forget, and was the first and so far only Jag available with wrong wheel drive) sold in reasonable numbers here even before they brought in the diesel, which speaks volumes about the priorities of the average Irish motorist.

Thankfully at least the new car is rear wheel drive, I swear if Jaguar hadn't bothered making this car rear wheel drive BMW would probably be making the next generation 3 series front wheel drive in addition to all the other models that are going to drive the wrong wheels over the next few years:rolleyes:.

fmcg_scribe

captainspeed wrote: »

Have to say, I'm very underwhelmed by the interior. There's nothing wrong with it per say, and had it been launched this time last year, it would have been top of the class, I think it is marginally better than the 3 series (then again, BMW doesn't really bother making any kind of effort with their cars these days, except of course to cut costs as much as they can get away with, as evidenced by the wrong wheel drive 2 series Active Tourer thing). But in the past year we've had the new C-class, and as a result, the interior is already totally outclassed.

If everything else about the car is good (and I don't see any reason why that can't be the case), it could still be a class leader; after all the C-class is meant to be a bit underwhelming to drive without the very expensive air suspension and of course, Merc's four cylinder diesels are complete tractors, even by the (low) standards of four cylinder diesel engines they're very unrefined, and the 3 series isn't meant to be all that good without the expensive adaptive M sport suspension.

I bet a bog-standard XE will be at least as good as an adaptively or air suspended 3 series or C-class.

The CO2 is low as well, but I don't like the fact that the service interval is 21,000 miles - that's just WAY too long to be leaving the same oil in an engine no matter how many long life additives are in it.

Good to see Jaguar are still offering a six pot petrol engine (not relevant in Ireland admittedly, but nice to know that it is available in countries that aren't as obsessed with low road tax), and I note their comments about the 'Ingenium' engine being a suitable basis for an XE R model; I read somewhere (perhaps Mr David can confirm) that the new engines are a modular design a la BMW's latest engines, and it can be made a straight six; well I certainly would love to see the return of a Jaguar with a straight six engine under the bonnet .

Agree with you on some points but it's premature and frankly outrageous to claim that any variant of the XE might be class leading - for now, at least. People can criticise BMW all they like but the facts are that the 3 series defined the compact executive segment and has led the segment ever since. In recent years, the C class and the A4 have got closer to the 3 series but despite the interior and overall build quality of the new C class its refinement and some of the engines in the range have been criticised heavily, so for now BMW can rest easy.

Tea 1000

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Agree with you on some points but it's premature and frankly outrageous to claim that any variant of the XE might be class leading - for now, at least. People can criticise BMW all they like but the facts are that the 3 series defined the compact executive segment and has led the segment ever since. In recent years, the C class and the A4 have got closer to the 3 series but despite the interior and overall build quality of the new C class its refinement and some of the engines in the range have been criticised heavily, so for now BMW can rest easy.

The BMW loving press though are always over critical of the 3-series rivals. The C-Class engines are carried over, but they're not that bad. In fact the C-Class engine is better than the E90 engine for refinement except maybe towards 4k rpm, but the press always said it was far too unrefined. That's simply too harsh. They actually said at one point the last C-Class was a match for the E90 in handling stakes, but for some reason the conclusion was that "on balance" the 3 series just about shaded it. I don't know what balance they were using, but the last facelift C-Class had a much better interior than the E90, so it should have scored better.
So I reckon that some British bias will come out to aid the new Jag, but to be honest it's needed to balance the BMW bias that already exists, so the net result should be a fair dual between them!

@Mr. David, is it the UK where most of the tests were done? Also, what qualifications do you need for your job? I assume jobs like that don't come up often!

MadYaker

If I was in the market for a small executive saloon id probably buy one instead of a 3 series, just because the current 3 is ugly and every second car on the road is a bloody 3 series.

jimgoose

captainspeed wrote: »

...Good to see Jaguar are still offering a six pot petrol engine (not relevant in Ireland admittedly, but nice to know that it is available in countries that aren't as obsessed with low road tax), and I note their comments about the 'Ingenium' engine being a suitable basis for an XE R model; I read somewhere (perhaps Mr David can confirm) that the new engines are a modular design a la BMW's latest engines, and it can be made a straight six; well I certainly would love to see the return of a Jaguar with a straight six engine under the bonnet .

A Jaaag without sufficient cylindrage is like a night without stars, my good man. Now what would be moderately neat-o would be an updated, supercharged version of the AJ20 V6, the one that previously showed up in the 2l X-Type.

BigEejit

A fine looking car, will be interesting to see how it stacks up once its released. And i dont think counting on the motoring press to give a decent account of a car is going to teach you much, they have their favourites and they will have their national pride and they somehow those always end up being just that little bit better.....

Moneymaker

MadYaker wrote: »

If I was in the market for a small executive saloon id probably buy one instead of a 3 series, just because the current 3 is ugly and every second car on the road is a bloody 3 series.

And the others are either A4s or 520d's :pac:

The mother is considering looking into it for their next repmobile. Would be a good change from the S60.

Mr.David

ba_barabus wrote: »

A source in the know was very disappointed with the A4 rear they bolted on to the back, particularly the lights. He described it as a bit bland and already done.............and exactly what the market wants. He liked the drive and reckoned it was at least a match for the best in class. In fact he reckoned it was great around a track.

If they can get the quality right it should have no problems selling. While it's not as mind blowing as I'd like it's exactly the right styling for the segment it's in.

Not sure what parts you worked on but I approve of it.

Agree, the rear end is the weak point for me. Front end looks very well though. Have to wait and see on the interior, the launch colours are awful imo.

The 3L supercharged petrol should be a proper weapon, that engine is a peach in the F type.

It's such a touch sector, I hope it does well.

Btw my contribution was from the aeroacoustic point of view so design of bonnet/wing mirrors/A post/sealing systems etc with a view to minimising wind noise.

Mr.David

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Is it true that Wing mirrors are a major source of wind noise? Is it still a EU requirement to have them? I remember seeing some prototypes cars with little camera pods that would display and image inside the car. So less wind noise and therefore better fuel economy.

Yeah its true, they are a huge source of drag and wind noise! The sooner the disappear the better really, although a car without them would take some getting used to!

Mr.David

Tea 1000 wrote: »

@Mr. David, is it the UK where most of the tests were done? Also, what qualifications do you need for your job? I assume jobs like that don't come up often!

Testing would be performed at various locations around the world. We used an acoustically treated wind tunnel in Germany for a lot of our work.

Qualifications wise I have a degree in Mech Eng!

fmcg_scribe

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The BMW loving press though are always over critical of the 3-series rivals. The C-Class engines are carried over, but they're not that bad. In fact the C-Class engine is better than the E90 engine for refinement except maybe towards 4k rpm, but the press always said it was far too unrefined. That's simply too harsh. They actually said at one point the last C-Class was a match for the E90 in handling stakes, but for some reason the conclusion was that "on balance" the 3 series just about shaded it. I don't know what balance they were using, but the last facelift C-Class had a much better interior than the E90, so it should have scored better.
So I reckon that some British bias will come out to aid the new Jag, but to be honest it's needed to balance the BMW bias that already exists, so the net result should be a fair dual between them!

@Mr. David, is it the UK where most of the tests were done? Also, what qualifications do you need for your job? I assume jobs like that don't come up often!

Agree that many motoring journalists used to have a bias for certain BMW models but in recent years that has changed. New BMWs are longer guaranteed five star reviews and many reviewers are unsure about the direction in which BMW is going.

In particular, the BMW 5 series is no longer the class leader that is used to be. The E39 was the last version to dominate the executive car segment but it's been out of production for 11 years.

For some time, there has been a feeling that the 3 series including the M3 (up to the E46 anyway) is the best type of car that BMW makes whereas the S class is the best type of car that Mercedes makes. In both cases, the cars are class leaders and there is general agreement that both car makers understand those segments. The same could be argued about Porsche with the 911 but then you get into talking about price points.

At the moment, the only models in BMW's current range that seem to get unqualified praise on a consistent basis are the new 2 series coupe and the current 3 series saloon.

Agree that diesel engine refinement in some of the current BMW models, especially the current 3 series saloon, has been criticised but I don't think that any reviewers have felt sufficiently heated to write off a car's overall perceived quality and refinement because of it.

Interiors is an interesting issue. I'm not sure that most car buyers use it as a hard criterion when making a buying decision over a new car. That said, leather v cloth and colour scheme of interior might matter to a lot of buyers when buying used cars but that's more about one used car versus another as opposed to deciding between different makes or models. Admittedly, Audi interiors used to get great reviews but more recent BMWs have received praise for their interiors.

Arguably, BMW's M cars have suffered the biggest fall in critical reviews, whatever about sales. I'd be the first to say that BMW has made some bad moves with M cars moving to synthetic engine noise in cabins, electric steering and bigger, heavier bodies. Recently, BMW has indicated that next generation models, including M cars, will be lighter.

Leonard Hofstadter

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Agree that many motoring journalists used to have a bias for certain BMW models but in recent years that has changed. New BMWs are longer guaranteed five star reviews and many reviewers are unsure about the direction in which BMW is going.

In fairness, the days when motoring journalists used to give BMWs glowing reviews and five star verdicts, they were deserved. The E39 5 series is an exceptional car, it was so far ahead of the A6 and E-class of the time. It's still a great car, even today.

The E46 and E90 were also great cars and were class leaders until almost the very end, but I note that already What Car no longer say the F30 is the best compact executive car. I don't agree with their choice (they say the A3 is the best), but stil, that kind of thing wouldn't have happened in times gone by. The F30 has most certainly been criticised for its driving dynamics (unless you buy it with the very expensive adapative suspension, and how many people are going to do that? Hardly any I reckon) and the N47 is an unrefined engine - it is a four cylinder diesel after all. Plus, as we know, it's one of the most unreliable diesel engines ever made with the infamous timing chain problem.

The press reviews of the pseudo BMW Active Tourer yoke say it doesn't even drive as well as the best in class, before when BMW used to do something that its fans would be screaming blue murder about they used to do it so well the critics were sent home with their tails between their legs.

For example, when the 335i came about, there was a massive fuss, because it was the first petrol BMW with a turbo in over 20 years and BMW had always extolled the virtues of naturally aspirated petrol engines. Then once people drove it they said it was like a large capacity NA engine because there was no lag and the throttle response and noise were as good as an NA BMW six. I've never driven an N54 but it certainly sounds awesome and it has the best of both worlds in that it pulls like a diesel at low revs but then as the revs increase it's a like a proper petrol engine with no let up until the redline.

One might have expected when they decided to go wrong wheel drive they would have made the ride and handling so good it would confound the critics, but it's very clear that it's not even that good by the standards of the class, so that means it's totally rubbish for a BMW - the self-proclaimed makers of the "Ultimate Driving Machine" after all.

I really believe they no longer care (certainly at that end of the market) about how good their cars are, they quite arrogantly point out that the badge will be enough for many. Unfortunately, they're probably right. As an aside, it really amused me how in the just released promo material for the 2 series cabrio how they made an issue of the fact that it's the only car in its segment with wait for it.... rear wheel drive!

And in their technology section of their global website, there is a bit about that thing that always distinguised them from everyone else - rear wheel drive.

This isn't personal opinion, this is what BMW themselves say about the advantages of rear wheel drive:

"BMW's characteristic agility and dynamic performance are the keys to driving pleasure. Rear-wheel drive is an important part of this, providing ideal thrust for perfect performance.

The best solution for vehicle dynamics is the standard drive, with the engine at the front and the drive force at the back, a division of labour that has a positive influence on steering, motion and comfort. Rear-wheel drive enables the characteristic BMW weight distribution of almost exactly 50% on the front axle and 50% on the rear."


http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/technology_guide/articles/rear_wheel_drive.html



And there's a nice YouTube video from BMW explaining why rear wheel drive is in their opinion better than front wheel drive:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHejSP27wis


Wise words from the BMW people there. So how is making a front wheel drive 2 series (or anything with the blue and white propellor badge) right?

CrowdedHouse

captainspeed wrote: »

by. The F30 has most certainly been criticised for its driving dynamics (unless you buy it with the very expensive adapative suspension, and how many people are going to do that? Hardly any I reckon)

On a side note I have it on mine, it was around 700 quid - hardly very expensive

robbie99

You can always spec the 2 series with x-drive, which is biased to rear wheel drive, if it's such an issue.

HandsomeDan

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

On a side note I have it on mine, it was around 700 quid - hardly very expensive

How do you find the adaptive suspension. Did you get a chance to compare it to the standard setup?

CrowdedHouse

I haven't driven one without it bar a short test drive although I recently drove a 4 gran coupe for about 10 miles and it seemed as if there was a good bit more roll in it, but tbf it was a different car/engine to mine. You can't disable it to compare.

_Kaiser_

captainspeed wrote: »

Thankfully at least the new car is rear wheel drive, I swear if Jaguar hadn't bothered making this car rear wheel drive BMW would probably be making the next generation 3 series front wheel drive in addition to all the other models that are going to drive the wrong wheels over the next few years:rolleyes:.

On a tangent, but I can't take any post seriously that includes the phrase "wrong wheel drive" - sorry

I've driven several BMWs at this stage - E39 and E60's including a 525 MSport and 530d - and they're nothing to write home about.. slow, small, noisy and very badly laid out interiors IMO

The E39 still looks well externally but it's really aged badly otherwise. The E60 looks good in black, but the iDrive is terrible (and literally clunky), the controls are all over the place and having "wrong way" wipers is a cheapskate move for a supposedly "premium" car

The 5 is supposed to be an A6 alternative but I can tell you the C6/C7 A6 surpasses it in every way. Pitch it against an A4 and you have a fairer battle. Similarly the 3 is better pitched against an A3 these days.

What they have more than any other car in that segment is badge appeal, but the engineering and design has been lagging behind for years.

HandsomeDan

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

On a tangent, but I can't take any post seriously that includes the phrase "wrong wheel drive" - sorry

I've driven several BMWs at this stage - E39 and E60's including a 525 MSport and 530d - and they're nothing to write home about.. slow, small, noisy and very badly laid out interiors IMO

The E39 still looks well externally but it's really aged badly otherwise. The E60 looks good in black, but the iDrive is terrible (and literally clunky), the controls are all over the place and having "wrong way" wipers is a cheapskate move for a supposedly "premium" car

The 5 is supposed to be an A6 alternative but I can tell you the C6/C7 A6 surpasses it in every way. Pitch it against an A4 and you have a fairer battle. Similarly the 3 is better pitched against an A3 these days.

What they have more than any other car in that segment is badge appeal, but the engineering and design has been lagging behind for years.

I feel the same way but the opposite in reverse. The e60 feels a class ahead of the last a6 which imo feels like a big nose heavey plastic box.

First gen idrive was dodge ok. But bmw were rockin that **** in 2003 well ahead of rest. Idrive type controls are now pretty much the standard accross luxo cars. Current gen idrive is really excellent.

_Kaiser_

HandsomeDan wrote: »

I feel the same way but the opposite in reverse. The e60 feels a class ahead of the last a6 which imo feels like a big nose heavey plastic box.

We'll have to agree to disagree I had several E60s for a few weeks and the only one that was liveable was the 525 MSport. Even then the interior felt dated, awkward, and it was tiny in comparison to my own A6

My A6 (C6 04 model but 05 plate but not much gap really between the model ages) is bigger, more logically laid out, the MMI is a far better system than the iDrive of the same era, feels more solid and better built, and the 3.0 TDI tied to the tiptronic gearbox is a lot quicker on the uptake than the BMW was.

Still, that's why we have choice

Hachiko

Mr.David wrote: »

I spent 3 years of my professional life working on that car!

I think they are over rated and over priced myself.

mossym

Hachiko wrote: »

I think they are over rated and over priced myself.

what, professional lifes?

HandsomeDan

OSI wrote: »

Wasn't there some serious effort put into the wing mirrors on the Nissan Leaf because the car was so quiet the noise from the wing mirrors became of a source of annoyance?

Doubt that. At cruise road noise would be the dominant source of noise, so whether the motor is electric or not would be neither here nor there.

YbFocus

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Doubt that. At cruise road noise would be the dominant source of noise, so whether the motor is electric or not would be neither here nor there.

You wouldn't believe what turbulence and nose is created by even the smallest things.
I'd well believe this to be the case, especially without the audible sound of an engine to somewhat mask it.

fmcg_scribe

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

On a tangent, but I can't take any post seriously that includes the phrase "wrong wheel drive" - sorry

I've driven several BMWs at this stage - E39 and E60's including a 525 MSport and 530d - and they're nothing to write home about.. slow, small, noisy and very badly laid out interiors IMO

The E39 still looks well externally but it's really aged badly otherwise. The E60 looks good in black, but the iDrive is terrible (and literally clunky), the controls are all over the place and having "wrong way" wipers is a cheapskate move for a supposedly "premium" car

The 5 is supposed to be an A6 alternative but I can tell you the C6/C7 A6 surpasses it in every way. Pitch it against an A4 and you have a fairer battle. Similarly the 3 is better pitched against an A3 these days.

What they have more than any other car in that segment is badge appeal, but the engineering and design has been lagging behind for years.

You're entitled to your opinion but your observations seem to be very scatter gun.

I have owned an E36 316i, E46 323i, E82 135i, E38 740i, E46 M3, E60 535d, and for (sake of balance!) a Lexus IS 300. Therefore, I'm clearly loyal to the BMW brand but I'm also realistic about the strengths and weaknesses of the cars that I've owned.

I've never owned an E39 but I can't understand why an E39 or a E60 would classed as a small car. Small relative to what? Since the 5 series was launched over 40 years ago, it has been getting bigger and bigger. Same applies to the 3 series.

Slow? I suppose a small engine 5 series, say, a 520d, might not impress in terms of performance but that that's why the 535d was created and there are also V8 engine versions that are not exactly slow. Admittedly, BMW cars have been getting heavier because but BMW has accepted that criticism and is working to reduce the kerb weight of next generation models currently in design and development.

Badly laid out interiors? BMW has always made a virtue out of designing functional, driver-orientated "cockpits". Admittedly, some of the driver-orientation was blunted for the E6x 5, 6, and 7 series and E9x 3 series but it has returned in pretty much all of the BMW models currently in production.

The E39, especially the mid-life facelift in M Sport and M5 trim, has aged really well - and arguably better than the A6 and E class from the same era. In many ways, the E39 was a high point for BMW and it has proved difficult for BMW to beat it.

There's a lot of guff about the iDrive, especially the first generation. I'm not saying that it's beyond criticism, especially for usability, but it removed a lot of clutter from dashboards and opened up new possibilities for changing car settings, in-car entertainment, and sat-nav. In my experience, it's well engineered and it works. I sometimes think that people who write off technologies like iDrive are not comfortable with technological advances.

BMW took a risk with launching it, evaluated feedback, and made improvements to incrementally over the last 13 years. I'm reminded of the evolution of factory-fitted sat-nav systems.

YbFocus

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

You're entitled to your opinion but your observations seem to be very .....

Maybe you haven't been around much scribe but everytime someone mentions bmw Kaiser comes along and runs them into the ground.
You must learn to accept it and let him to it.

I have an e60 530d and it's not slow, dated, crap inside etc. But don't engage him

fmcg_scribe

YbFocus wrote: »

Maybe you haven't been around much scribe but everytime someone mentions bmw Kaiser comes along and runs them into the ground.
You must learn to accept it and let him to it.

I have an e60 530d and it's not slow, dated, crap inside etc. But don't engage him

You're probably right. :-)

I'm the first to say that a person's choice of car is a very personal thing - and that it might say something about them.

Equally, people who care about cars and driving can sometimes air strong opinions.

That said, there's no room in these discussions for armchair generals and bar room philosophers.

HandsomeDan

YbFocus wrote: »

You wouldn't believe what turbulence and nose is created by even the smallest things.
I'd well believe this to be the case, especially without the audible sound of an engine to somewhat mask it.

Didn't say Nissan didn't want quiet wing mirrors (what manufacturer wouldn't). What I said is that as tyre roar is by far the dominant noise when cruising, for both elctric and ICE, the leaf hardly uniquely needs quiet wing mirrors.

Zubeneschamali

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

I sometimes think that people who write off technologies like iDrive are not comfortable with technological advances

I think a lot of it comes from journos doing a short test drive, who don't have time to learn the system. Once upon a time, they used to complain that Mercedes put too many functions on a column stalk.

If you tell people often enough that something is confusing, they will be primed to find issues.

HandsomeDan

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I think a lot of it comes from journos doing a short test drive, who don't have time to learn the system. Once upon a time, they used to complain that Mercedes put too many functions on a column stalk.

If you tell people often enough that something is confusing, they will be primed to find issues.

I hear you, but in fairness the original idrive was pretty bad

Mr.David

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Didn't say Nissan didn't want quiet wing mirrors (what manufacturer wouldn't). What I said is that as tyre roar is by far the dominant noise when cruising, for both elctric and ICE, the leaf hardly uniquely needs quiet wing mirrors.

Not really.....road noise and wind noise occupy very different parts of the acoustic spectrum.

What's interesting is that often the absolute magnitude of noise is not a primary driver of poor customer feedback, but instead changes in the noise are the issue. For example, I'm sure everyone has had that experience of only realising how loud the road noise was on a vehicle when the road surface changes from rough to smooth and the noise is greatly reduced.

Wing mirrors have a huge impact on wind noise, the majority of which (assuming the seals are all functioning properly) is "heard" through the side window and to a lesser extent through the windscreen.

HandsomeDan

Mr.David wrote: »

Not really.....road noise and wind noise occupy very different parts of the acoustic spectrum.

Didn't say they didn't. Just saying leaf is hardly unique in its need for quiet wing mirrors.

Stallingrad

I think Jaguars mistake here is adopting the German approach of same sausage, different size. I like the front but it's so derivative of the XF and I feel those proportions just do not work as a well on a smaller car. The flanks and rear already look 5 years old to me. A lot more flair was needed I think.

HandsomeDan

The XE looks like a car from 7 years ago inside and out.

Technology wise it looks interesting.

_Kaiser_

YbFocus wrote: »

Maybe you haven't been around much scribe but everytime someone mentions bmw Kaiser comes along and runs them into the ground.
You must learn to accept it and let him to it.

I have an e60 530d and it's not slow, dated, crap inside etc. But don't engage him

Perhaps because I'm tired of almost every thread on this forum involving another marque or model being turned into a discussion about how wonderful BMWs are. Last I checked this was a Motors forum not a BMW love-in.

But continue... :rolleyes:

YbFocus

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Perhaps because I'm tired of almost every thread on this forum involving another marque or model being turned into a discussion about how wonderful BMWs are. Last I checked this was a Motors forum not a BMW love-in.

But continue... :rolleyes:

It's nobody's problem if the majority own and praise their BMW's, what harm in that. Nobody is on here showing off there car.
They are talking across the class that the XE falls into. If it starts to get more BMW centralised thats because some of the contributors own them and thats what they know.
Me, I'd own that XE before any BMW equal to it, I'm not tied to BMW in any way at all. It's my first and it may be my last who knows.

I like my BMW at the minute though and every post I come onto motors to make isn't to run Audi into the ground, which is something to look at through your posts.

Now I'm not getting into it with you, just asking you to lay off the BMW thrashing because there is no need for it. Sure, the whole place jokes and rips the p1ss and thats fine and funny, we get a good kick ripping alfa's also

But you come on like a general man, just relax and let people have what they want without running it into the ground.

You sure live up to your name man

Hachiko

mossym wrote: »

what, professional lifes?

lol, well the cars themselves. But it does look good but i would not buy one, a GT-R would be more up my street.

L-M

Stallingrad wrote: »

Am I missing a thread on the new XE, does no one care? New entrant into 3 series territory should be big news.



http://www.jaguar.ie/jaguar-range/xe.html

The choice is over whelming!