Ian Paisley has died

bucketybuck wrote: »

An evil bigot?

So was he Irish or not?

I'm loving the mental gymnastics of some people. "he has a cheek to call himself Irish", contrasted by the whole uber nationalist 32 counties, island of Ireland thing.

If he thought of himself as an Irishman then he was Irish. Other people don't get to decide whether he was or not based on his political views, religion or goals.

I'm a republican but I don't think those that aren't are any less Irish.

People that vote against Scottish independence won't cease to be Scottish as a result.

lanarty56 wrote: »

Mountain of a man. RIP

He definitely won't rest in peace

Evil old bast*rd. Good riddance. Himself and Maggie Thatcher can chat about the old days down below.

Ian Paisley was one of the best recruiters the IRA/INLA ever had. A demagogue of the old school. In sequential order, the big recruiters were Ian Paisley, the Falls Road Curfew, internment, Bloody Sunday and the 1981 hunger strikes. He just kept on recruiting through the years, which is probably why he was never targeted by republican paramilitaries.

He also did a lot of recruiting for the UDA/UFF, the new UVF (he was probably very instrumental in its rebirth), etc. He had his Pontius Pilate rap off pat anytime he was challenged about this. His firebrand rhetoric effectively enabled such probable psychopaths as Lenny Murphy and his cohorts the Shankill Butchers. Romper Rooms also probably came from his rabble-rousing. A Romper Room in this context is very far removed from the children's TV series. It has been described as a room in a loyalist drinking club where victims, mainly random Catholic men kidnapped at night, were brought to be horribly beaten, mutilated, and tortured, often in front of patrons. The victim would then be either killled there and the body dumped, or else brought elsewhere, killed and dumped. A few Protestant victims (male and female) suffered the same fate, after being mistaken for Catholics; this caused outrage in the Protestant community...

It is also very likely that he at the very least knew about the paedophile ring operating in/from the Kincora Boys' Home while it was still being covered up (it still is...). Two fellow travellers of Ian (on the loyalist road) who were incriminated were William McGrath, founder of Tara, and John McKeague, a co-founder of the Red Hand Commandos, who was also involved with the Tartan Gangs.

Hero or villain - two sides of the same coin. Future historians may gain access to most of the facts about the whole sordid saga of the last fifty years. Believers will still believe; haters will still hate; dogs in the street still know the score.

J Edgar stayed in power for so long because he had the dirt on so many powerful people. Someone, somewhere still has Hoover's files. Same goes for Ian's files. Jimmy didn't care, as long as he died before the excrement hit the extractor fan.

We all inherit our prejudices from the cradle, to some degree. They become ingrained; we may learn to despise them, but it can be almost impossible (to the ego) to recant - only the very brave can do so. Denial is so much easier. Babies and old people are hard to dislike.

tl/dr History will not be kind. Hopefully, it will be dispassionate. Actors from all sides will be analysed and exposed for what they really were/did/said/ordered.

lanarty56 wrote: »

Ireland has lost a true legend today have a bit of respect. Dont let me see you around here again. Punk

You obviously have a few on board. Good riddance to yourself and that horrible man you supported

Happyman42 wrote: »

He died off a Friday.

Would you call that a good Friday?

Been around Belfast all day and not heard a word about this? Genuinely surprised the OP never got any contrarian/edgey likes either. Have likes been disabled for that post or something?

With a few changes, the first verse of this WB Yeats poem seems appropriate somehow.

Especially these lines (make a few changes here and there...)

I lie awake night after night
And never get the answers right.
Did that play of mine send out
Certain men the English shot?
Did words of mine put too great strain
On that woman’s reeling brain?
Could my spoken words have checked
That whereby a house lay wrecked?
And all seems evil until I
Sleepless would lie down and die.

RIP to him. He was, in his day, a powerful and mesmerising figure. But, he was a hate-filled, bigoted, extremely dangerous man, and it's a good thing that Northern Ireland left him behind before he died.