Scottish Independence discussion area

EunanMac · 08-09-2014 08:21PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Region. It's a simple fact that London is the sovereign parliament of the UK and Scotland has a regional parliament. It's a region, not a country. That could change in 10 days though.

What was india etc. ?

LiveIsLife · 08-09-2014 08:23PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The English side?

It isn't rugby.

The crowd in London then

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 08-09-2014 08:24PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Region in Ireland's case as part of UK. It's a simple fact that London is the sovereign parliament of the UK and Scotland has a regional parliament. It's a region, not a country. That could change in 10 days though.

It is a country in a union with England. I suggest you have a wee read of the act of union might put you straight

Kermit.de.frog · 08-09-2014 08:24PM

EunanMac wrote: »

What was india etc. ?

Colony I guess. India was not part of the UK. It was part of the commonwealth.

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-09-2014 08:24PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Region in Ireland's case as part of UK. It's a simple fact that London is the sovereign parliament of the UK and Scotland has a regional parliament. It's a region, not a country. That could change in 10 days though.

You can be a country and not have sovereign status, feck me this is inter cert stuff

EunanMac · 08-09-2014 08:26PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Colony I guess. India was not part of the UK. It was part of the commonwealth.

I suggest you drop down to ordinary level trolling for the leaving cert.

oppenheimer1 · 08-09-2014 08:30PM

Paramite Pie wrote: »

The United Kingdom of Great Britain And Ireland was only created in 1801 when Ireland joined (and it's name changed when we left), prior to that the Kingdom of Great Britain was the term used to describe the older 1707 Union of Scotland & England. So if Scotland stayed and NI left, it would no longer be the United Kingdom as that term was created when Ireland joined.

The format would still be the United Kingdom of _____ & Northern Ireland. What the 'blank' would be... I cannae say. The naming dispute between Ireland and the NI/UK was never resolved, so it's likely there will be no agreed outcome.

The naming dispute between Ireland and the UK was resolved with the Good Friday agreement if I recall correctly

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-09-2014 08:32PM

Moving on from inter cert geography, have a look at this nugget from the No campaign

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnAeASoPigM

Red Nissan · 08-09-2014 08:33PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Scotland is a region of the United Kingdom as the UK is a sovereign country. That is how I see it. Same with Wales and the North.

Scotland was an independent country with her own Royalty. She joined with Britain and Ireland and Wales in the act of Union to form the UK.

Ireland was invaded and planted, the North [as in the North] never was a separate country though an Ulster Kingdom did exist and later under one Irish Kingdom [United Ireland if one wills].

Ireland and later the North [especially the North] never did have a real say in entering the UK ~ Scotland and Wales did.

Some historians suggest that England and Wales should have joined Scotland.

Kermit.de.frog · 08-09-2014 08:36PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You can be a country and not have sovereign status, feck me this is inter cert stuff

I don't think so. Can you show me an example of a country without sovereign status? That is nonsense to me. Others may think differently but a country to me is sovereign and that's it.

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-09-2014 08:37PM

Red Nissan wrote: »

Scotland was an independent country with her own Royalty. She joined with Britain and Ireland and Wales in the act of Union to form the UK.

You mean England?

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-09-2014 08:38PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Can you show me an example of a country without sovereign status?

Scotland

KERSPLAT! · 08-09-2014 08:38PM

MOD

Folks, if you think someone is trolling, please report them. Calling them out on thread is itself a breach of the charter, thanks

-KERSPLAT!

BonnieSituation · 08-09-2014 08:41PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't think so. Can you show me an example of a country without sovereign status? That is nonsense to me. Others may think differently but a country to me is sovereign and that's it.

Scotland, England, Catalonia, Euskara, Galicia, Quebec, Aland, South Ossetia, Transnistria... And on and on it goes.

Nationhood and Sovereignty are two similar concepts but not the same thing. If you can't grasp that then why are you in here talking about Scottish independence?

Kermit.de.frog · 08-09-2014 08:41PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Scotland

Well I disagree. I don't mean to hurt your sensibilities but to me a "country" is the sovereign entity. I understand you have a different view. Fine.

Red Nissan · 08-09-2014 08:54PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Well I disagree. I don't mean to hurt your sensibilities but to me a "country" is the sovereign entity. I understand you have a different view. Fine.

A sovereign is a ruler of a nation, a King or Queen or a Royal succession is the sovereignty. Such a system is usually held together by force of arms and a degree of tyranny.

A sovereign may have a parliament whom they can command or they may be subject to, whilst being a figure head. In this case the government claims to be a sovereign state and power resides in elections.

A country may overthrow their Royalty and proclaim themselves a sovereign country [as they have seized it from the King/Queen in revolt] and they may then elect a President with or without Sovereign Powers, Obama in the USA is a Sovereign [pretending to be subject to parliament], Queen Elizabeth is a Sovereign who IS subject to HER Parliament [who then pretend that she is sovereign].

Mal-Adjusted · 08-09-2014 09:01PM

Can we shelve the discussion on weather Scotland is or isn't a real country? people are becoming entrenched and it really adds nothing. Also, it could be a moot point in ten days anyway...

W1ll1s · 08-09-2014 09:08PM

If they go Yes,the shock-waves will reverberate for years...

LordSutch · 08-09-2014 09:08PM

If there is a Yes vote it will be one of the most momentous events in the hstory of these islands. It really would be a massive event if Scotlasnd actually left the UK, and I'm not sure that people fully understand the enormity of an exit, or the implications for Scotland & whats left of the UK.

From the armed forces to the NHS, to the stability of NI, to the UKs place on the world stage, to an independent scotlands economic threat to the ROI. Then there's Camerons position as PM (of the remainder of the UK) which would be seriously called into question!

Scotlands exit might also spur other regions/countries in europe to consider seperation too, which wouldn't be too popular in Spain & Italy for example.

Hopefully Scotland will stay in the Union with the offer of 'Devo Max' saving the day. Devo Max really should have been on the ballot paper IMO.

Iwasfrozen · 08-09-2014 09:13PM

Scotland is a region of the United Kingdom with a regional assembly.

India, Burma etc. Were colonies as they were never formally part of the UK.

GaelMise · 08-09-2014 09:15PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Scotland is a region of the United Kingdom with a regional assembly.

India, Burma etc. Were colonies as they were never formally part of the UK.

Its a Parliament actually.

feargale · 08-09-2014 09:15PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Well I disagree. I don't mean to hurt your sensibilities but to me a "country" is the sovereign entity. I understand you have a different view. Fine.

What was India before 1948? Egypt in the 19th century? "The Kingdom of Ireland" in the 18th century?

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-09-2014 09:15PM

LordSutch wrote: »

with the offer of 'Devo Max' saving the day. Devo Max really should have been on the ballot paper IMO.

Hmmm, taking Salmond's consolation prize away was too big a trophy for the UK Government / BT / NT / UKOK

Only Cameron to blame for that one

This hand has been played before and there is nothing to suggest Devo Max will happen

Iwasfrozen · 08-09-2014 09:16PM

feargale wrote: »

What was India before 1948? Egypt in the 19th century? "The Kingdom of Ireland" in the 18th century?

Colony, colony and kingdom/region.

Dublin Red Devil · 08-09-2014 09:17PM

Pro Independence camp is now ahead in latest polls. The Sterling took its largest one day fall in years over market fears Scotland will vote for independence

Iwasfrozen · 08-09-2014 09:22PM

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

Pro Independence camp is now ahead in latest polls. The Sterling took its largest one day fall in years over market fears Scotland will vote for independence

A separate poll by the Yes Scotland campaign put the pro-union vote ahead by 4 points.

GaelMise · 08-09-2014 09:25PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

A separate poll by the Yes Scotland campaign put the pro-union vote ahead by 4 points.

All to play for in the last few days so, who would have thought it only a couple of months ago?

Iwasfrozen · 08-09-2014 09:26PM

GaelMise wrote: »

All to play for in the last few days so, who would have thought it only a couple of months ago?

Heck even a month ago the pro-union side were up by 20 points.

Donkey Oaty · 08-09-2014 09:28PM

The Scots are basically the Kurds of the UK/EU , except they speak the same language as their neighbours and don't have a proverb that says "We have no friends but the mountains", and there isn't a Kurdish equivalent of the McDonald's product "Spicy McHaggis" which inspired a song by Dropkick Murphys who are actually American but identify with Ireland and we all get along so well and so can a newly independent Scotland, but it's not as simple as that.

I write that as a warning.

In the days ahead, look out for similar drivel appearing in an op-ed newspaper column near you.

GaelMise · 08-09-2014 09:30PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Heck even a month ago the pro-union side were up by 20 points.

It seems that in the period where people really start to make up their minds, the pro-union lead turned out to be fairly soft.

Scottish Independence discussion area

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