Are you obliged to give the Gardaí your name?

masti123 · 08-09-2014 12:06AM #1

Interesting video which is linked below, Basically a few lads got arrested for not giving the Gardai their names, This video tells their side of the story.
I'm just wondering what in your opinion in this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58uSrA8CVJE

Sir Arthur Daley · 08-09-2014 12:35AM

You could do a facebook request with the guards.

Mariasofia · 08-09-2014 12:38AM

I did feel obliged to give a garda my name and number once......

That was in Coppers though.....does that count?

Gatling · 08-09-2014 12:40AM

Mariasofia wrote: »

I did feel obliged to give a garda my name and number once......

That was in Coppers though.....does that count?

That could have got messy ðŸ’

bnagrrl · 08-09-2014 01:41AM

Depends on reason/circumstances but for the most part, yes.

(Didn't watch the video linked to in the OP.)

Miike · 08-09-2014 01:44AM

Yes. You're required to identify your self a member of AGS at their request, regardless of circumstances.

F1ngers · 08-09-2014 01:48AM

Miike wrote: »

Yes. You're required to identify your self a member of AGS at their request, regardless of circumstances.

Please post the relevant law that states that.

TheBegotten · 08-09-2014 01:52AM

F1ngers wrote: »

Please post the relevant law that states that .

I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I'm aware ssection 4 of the criminal justice act allows a guard to arrest you for up to 24 hours without charging you. So it pays to be polite, or you could be spending the night in a holding cell.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0022/sec0004.html

John_D80 · 08-09-2014 01:59AM

Miike wrote: »

Yes. You're required to identify your self a member of AGS at their request, regardless of circumstances.

Incorrect. The Garda must first of all have reason to believe you have been involved in the commission of an offence. It's in the criminal justice act of 1994.

To say 'regardless of circumstances' is way off.

F1ngers · 08-09-2014 01:59AM

TheBegotten wrote: »

I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I'm aware ssection 4 of the criminal justice act allows a guard to arrest you for up to 24 hours without charging you. So it pays to be polite, or you could be spending the night in a holding cell.

This section 4?

4.—(1) This section applies to any offence for which a person of full age and capacity and not previously convicted may, under or by virtue of any enactment, be punished by imprisonment for a term of five years or by a more severe penalty and to an attempt to commit any such offence.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0022/sec0004.html

Doesn't mention 24hours.

John_D80 · 08-09-2014 02:06AM

TheBegotten wrote: »

I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I'm aware ssection 4 of the criminal justice act allows a guard to arrest you for up to 24 hours without charging you. So it pays to be polite, or you could be spending the night in a holding cell.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0022/sec0004.html

A Garda would want to have a bloody good reason to detain a person for 24 hrs or they would find themselves in the sh1t big-time. Failure to be 'polite' certainly would not cut it.

F1ngers · 08-09-2014 02:11AM

My research leads me to believe that you don't have to give your details unless he tells you that you have committed an offence.

TheChizler · 08-09-2014 02:11AM

F1ngers wrote: »

Please post the relevant law that states that.

Criminal Justice Act 1984, section 6, part 1 (a) and 3. Only if they've been arrested under section 4 though.

Interestingly it says the detained must give HIS name. Are females exempt?...

The Purveyor of Truth · 08-09-2014 02:15AM

Apparently not, same situation in the UK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7BQvt3XeAY

F1ngers · 08-09-2014 02:17AM

TheChizler wrote: »

Criminal Justice Act 1984, section 6, part 1 (a) and 3. Only if they've been arrested under section 4 though.

Interestingly it says the detained must give HIS name. Are females exempt?...

That's what I said in my previous post.
You do NOT have to give your details, unless you have been informed you have committed an offence...

What if you're not being arrested?

On the assumption I turned a corner and a Gardai just says to me...

Gardai: What is your name?
F1ngers: ...

TheBegotten · 08-09-2014 02:20AM

Subsection 2:

Where a member of the Garda Síochána arrests without warrant a person whom he, with reasonable cause, suspects of having committed an offence to which this section applies, that person may be taken to and detained in a Garda Síochána station for such period as is authorised by this section if the member of the Garda Síochána in charge of the station to which he is taken on arrest has at the time of that person's arrival at the station reasonable grounds for believing that his detention is necessary for the proper investigation of the offence.

If you're having trouble translating into layman's terms, this essentially means a member of the Gardaí can arrest you on suspicion of any serious offence, with no obligation to bring charges against you. Once in custody, section 6 (as the user above me pointed out) requires you to cooperate more.

And being honest, refusing to give your name seems like a pretty good reason for a Garda to suspect you of doing something dodgy.

The Purveyor of Truth · 08-09-2014 02:21AM

Here is the Public Order Act legislation:

24.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána finds any person committing an offence under a relevant provision, the member may arrest such person without warrant.

(2) Where a member of the Garda Síochána is of the opinion that an offence has been committed under a relevant provision, the member may—

(a) demand the name and address of any person whom the member suspects, with reasonable cause, has committed, or whom the member finds committing, such an offence, and

(b) arrest without warrant any such person who fails or refuses to give his name and address when demanded, or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing is false or misleading.

3) Any person who fails or refuses to give his name and address when demanded by virtue of subsection (2), or gives a name or address when so demanded which is false or misleading, shall be guilty of an offence.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (3) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to a term of imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or to both.

TheChizler · 08-09-2014 02:22AM

F1ngers wrote: »

That's what I said in my previous post.

Thread moved on while I was writing.

gunny558 · 08-09-2014 02:22AM

John_D80 wrote: »

Incorrect. The Garda must first of all have reason to believe you have been involved in the commission of an offence. It's in the criminal justice act of 1994. Section 24.

To say 'regardless of circumstances' is way off.

I read a thread on here one time, some chap kept getting stopped and searched a few times a week under some drug law. THe thread went on for ages arguing back and forth would he have a case for harrassment seeing as he was never in trouble in his life and they never found him with drugs even after all the searches. But I remember the general gist was that this drug law pretty much gives them a free for all to stop and search anyone they suspect of having drugs and that sometimes they abuse that law (like in that chaps case) and harrass someone and there wasnt a whole lot he could do about it. Id take a guess this law (if its still about and not changed) would probably give them the go ahead to demand a name.

endacl · 08-09-2014 02:25AM

Would the Garda in question be wearing his hat at the time of the request for identification, OP?

TheChizler · 08-09-2014 02:26AM

endacl wrote: »

Would the Garda in question be wearing his hat at the time of the request for identification, OP?

And be carrying his signed oath/contract?

F1ngers · 08-09-2014 02:27AM

endacl wrote: »

Would the Garda in question be wearing his hat at the time of the request for identification, OP?

Do they have to give you their hat if you have to do a no. 2?

I read somewhere that they do, always wonered if it was true.

EDIT:

The Purveyor of Truth wrote: »

Here is the Public Order Act legislation:

Correct, unless you have committed an offence, you are not obliged to give them any information.

Miike · 08-09-2014 02:31AM

F1ngers wrote: »

Please post the relevant law that states that.

In relation to my post I wasn't being sincere I guess a little bit blunt so save time but to get into details. No, you don't HAVE to. But should you deny their request to identify your self you'll get hit with Section 23 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977. Failing those circumstances and not meeting the criteria you'll get hit with Section 24, Public Order Act, 1994. Warranting them to request that information.

What is not defined is what constitutes "in the opinion". OPINION

I reiterate OPINION.

F1ngers · 08-09-2014 02:36AM

Miike wrote: »

In relation to my post I wasn't being sincere I guess a little bit blunt so save time but to get into details. No, you don't HAVE to. But should you deny their request to identify your self you'll get hit with Section 23 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977. Failing those circumstances and not meeting the criteria you'll get hit with Section 24, Public Order Act, 1994. Warranting them to request that information.

What is not defined is what constitutes "in the opinion". OPINION

I reiterate OPINION.

I wouldn't not give them my details, for the reasons you have just stated.

My point was, you don't HAVE to.

Miike · 08-09-2014 02:39AM

And those of you who are the kind to say "WELL I'M INNOCENT WHY SHOULD I BE HARASSED LIKE?" Are 99.9% of the time the same demographic who would make such statements as "GO FOLLOW AROUND THE DRUG DEALERS AND KILLERS AND LEAVE ME ALONE!!"

If a member of AGS cannot make simple requests like identification of someone who do you expect them to continue their duty to protect the people of Ireland? or "follow around the drugs dealers and killers and catch them" etc etc etc.

F1ngers wrote: »

I wouldn't not give them my details, for the reasons you have just stated.

My point was, you don't HAVE to.

And failing to give the information required in those 2 of MANY instances where AGS can request you to identify could potentially land you arrested. All because of that OPINION you feel you the need to challenge, for no reason, whats so ever.

This country is turning more and more into the US where everyone throws their toys out of the pram because police forces are trying to do their duty. Get a grip.

The Purveyor of Truth · 08-09-2014 02:39AM

Wonder what Lugs Branigan did to those who refused to give him, or his men, their name and address.

F1ngers · 08-09-2014 02:46AM

Miike wrote: »

And those of you who are the kind to say "WELL I'M INNOCENT WHY SHOULD I BE HARASSED LIKE?" Are 99.9% of the time the same demographic who would make such statements as "GO FOLLOW AROUND THE DRUG DEALERS AND KILLERS AND LEAVE ME ALONE!!"

If a member of AGS cannot make simple requests like identification of someone who do you expect them to continue their duty to protect the people of Ireland? or "follow around the drugs dealers and killers and catch them" etc etc etc.

And failing to give the information required in those 2 of MANY instances where AGS can request you to identify could potentially land you arrested. All because of that OPINION you feel you the need to challenge, for no reason, whats so ever.

This country is turning more and more into the US where everyone throws their toys out of the pram because police forces are trying to do their duty. Get a grip.

Have you got a link to back up those stats?
Or are you just "being blunt and insincere to save time"...

Or just lying?

The Purveyor of Truth · 08-09-2014 02:47AM

Interesting section on this from the Citizens Information website:

Questioning - Common law powers.

Most of the powers given to the Gardaí to stop and question members of the public are set out in law (known as statutory powers). There are, however, a number of instances where a Garda is entitled to stop and question you where no statutory power exists. This is known as a common law power.

An example of this would be where a Garda observes you acting suspiciously late at night, in an area where a lot of crimes are being committed. The Garda is entitled to stop you in order to detect and prevent crime.

You are under no legal obligation to co-operate with the Garda and the Garda cannot use force to restrain your freedom under common law, short of arresting you.

However, if the Garda has reasonable grounds for suspecting that you committed an offence, the Garda can use a statutory power to demand your name and address. If you refuse to provide them, then the Garda can arrest you.

kippy · 08-09-2014 02:47AM

F1ngers wrote: »

Have you got a link to back up those stats?
Or are you just "being blunt and insincere to save time"...

Or just lying?

It's a fair point.
Why be so evasive about a simple request from AGS whether the law is on your side or not?

Miike · 08-09-2014 02:49AM

F1ngers wrote: »

Have you got a link to back up those stats?
Or are you just "being blunt and insincere to save time"...

Or just lying?

........ :rolleyes:

For the rest of you, competent, people out there who may be interested. RE: 24 hours of detainment/instances of identification.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1939/en/act/pub/0013/sec0030.html#zza13y1939s30http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1939/en/act/pub/0013/sec0030.html#zza13y1939s30

F1ngers · 08-09-2014 02:53AM

Miike wrote: »

........ :rolleyes:

So that's a no then.

I can do rolly eyes too...look::rolleyes:

Are you obliged to give the Gardaí your name?

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