Are you obliged to give the Gardaí your name?

masti123

Interesting video which is linked below, Basically a few lads got arrested for not giving the Gardai their names, This video tells their side of the story.
I'm just wondering what in your opinion in this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58uSrA8CVJE

Sir Arthur Daley

You could do a facebook request with the guards.

Mariasofia

I did feel obliged to give a garda my name and number once......











That was in Coppers though.....does that count?

Gatling

Mariasofia wrote: »

I did feel obliged to give a garda my name and number once......











That was in Coppers though.....does that count?

That could have got messy ðŸ’

bnagrrl

Depends on reason/circumstances but for the most part, yes.

(Didn't watch the video linked to in the OP.)

Miike

Yes. You're required to identify your self a member of AGS at their request, regardless of circumstances.

F1ngers

Miike wrote: »

Yes. You're required to identify your self a member of AGS at their request, regardless of circumstances.

Please post the relevant law that states that.

TheBegotten

F1ngers wrote: »

Please post the relevant law that states that .

I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I'm aware ssection 4 of the criminal justice act allows a guard to arrest you for up to 24 hours without charging you. So it pays to be polite, or you could be spending the night in a holding cell.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0022/sec0004.html

John_D80

Miike wrote: »

Yes. You're required to identify your self a member of AGS at their request, regardless of circumstances.

Incorrect. The Garda must first of all have reason to believe you have been involved in the commission of an offence. It's in the criminal justice act of 1994.

To say 'regardless of circumstances' is way off.

F1ngers

TheBegotten wrote: »

I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I'm aware ssection 4 of the criminal justice act allows a guard to arrest you for up to 24 hours without charging you. So it pays to be polite, or you could be spending the night in a holding cell.

This section 4?

4.—(1) This section applies to any offence for which a person of full age and capacity and not previously convicted may, under or by virtue of any enactment, be punished by imprisonment for a term of five years or by a more severe penalty and to an attempt to commit any such offence.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0022/sec0004.html

Doesn't mention 24hours.

John_D80

TheBegotten wrote: »

I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I'm aware ssection 4 of the criminal justice act allows a guard to arrest you for up to 24 hours without charging you. So it pays to be polite, or you could be spending the night in a holding cell.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0022/sec0004.html

A Garda would want to have a bloody good reason to detain a person for 24 hrs or they would find themselves in the sh1t big-time. Failure to be 'polite' certainly would not cut it.

F1ngers

My research leads me to believe that you don't have to give your details unless he tells you that you have committed an offence.

TheChizler

F1ngers wrote: »

Please post the relevant law that states that.

Criminal Justice Act 1984, section 6, part 1 (a) and 3. Only if they've been arrested under section 4 though.

Interestingly it says the detained must give HIS name. Are females exempt?...

The Purveyor of Truth

Apparently not, same situation in the UK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7BQvt3XeAY

F1ngers

TheChizler wrote: »

Criminal Justice Act 1984, section 6, part 1 (a) and 3. Only if they've been arrested under section 4 though.

Interestingly it says the detained must give HIS name. Are females exempt?...

That's what I said in my previous post.
You do NOT have to give your details, unless you have been informed you have committed an offence...

What if you're not being arrested?

On the assumption I turned a corner and a Gardai just says to me...

Gardai: What is your name?
F1ngers: ...

TheBegotten

Subsection 2:

Where a member of the Garda Síochána arrests without warrant a person whom he, with reasonable cause, suspects of having committed an offence to which this section applies, that person may be taken to and detained in a Garda Síochána station for such period as is authorised by this section if the member of the Garda Síochána in charge of the station to which he is taken on arrest has at the time of that person's arrival at the station reasonable grounds for believing that his detention is necessary for the proper investigation of the offence.

If you're having trouble translating into layman's terms, this essentially means a member of the Gardaí can arrest you on suspicion of any serious offence, with no obligation to bring charges against you. Once in custody, section 6 (as the user above me pointed out) requires you to cooperate more.

And being honest, refusing to give your name seems like a pretty good reason for a Garda to suspect you of doing something dodgy.

The Purveyor of Truth

Here is the Public Order Act legislation:

24.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána finds any person committing an offence under a relevant provision, the member may arrest such person without warrant.

(2) Where a member of the Garda Síochána is of the opinion that an offence has been committed under a relevant provision, the member may—

(a) demand the name and address of any person whom the member suspects, with reasonable cause, has committed, or whom the member finds committing, such an offence, and

(b) arrest without warrant any such person who fails or refuses to give his name and address when demanded, or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing is false or misleading.

3) Any person who fails or refuses to give his name and address when demanded by virtue of subsection (2), or gives a name or address when so demanded which is false or misleading, shall be guilty of an offence.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (3) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to a term of imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or to both.

TheChizler

F1ngers wrote: »

That's what I said in my previous post.

Thread moved on while I was writing.

gunny558

John_D80 wrote: »

Incorrect. The Garda must first of all have reason to believe you have been involved in the commission of an offence. It's in the criminal justice act of 1994. Section 24.

To say 'regardless of circumstances' is way off.

I read a thread on here one time, some chap kept getting stopped and searched a few times a week under some drug law. THe thread went on for ages arguing back and forth would he have a case for harrassment seeing as he was never in trouble in his life and they never found him with drugs even after all the searches. But I remember the general gist was that this drug law pretty much gives them a free for all to stop and search anyone they suspect of having drugs and that sometimes they abuse that law (like in that chaps case) and harrass someone and there wasnt a whole lot he could do about it. Id take a guess this law (if its still about and not changed) would probably give them the go ahead to demand a name.

endacl

Would the Garda in question be wearing his hat at the time of the request for identification, OP?

TheChizler

endacl wrote: »

Would the Garda in question be wearing his hat at the time of the request for identification, OP?

And be carrying his signed oath/contract?

F1ngers

endacl wrote: »

Would the Garda in question be wearing his hat at the time of the request for identification, OP?

Do they have to give you their hat if you have to do a no. 2?

I read somewhere that they do, always wonered if it was true.

EDIT:

The Purveyor of Truth wrote: »

Here is the Public Order Act legislation:

Correct, unless you have committed an offence, you are not obliged to give them any information.

Miike

F1ngers wrote: »

Please post the relevant law that states that.

In relation to my post I wasn't being sincere I guess a little bit blunt so save time but to get into details. No, you don't HAVE to. But should you deny their request to identify your self you'll get hit with Section 23 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977. Failing those circumstances and not meeting the criteria you'll get hit with Section 24, Public Order Act, 1994. Warranting them to request that information.

What is not defined is what constitutes "in the opinion". OPINION

I reiterate OPINION.

F1ngers

Miike wrote: »

In relation to my post I wasn't being sincere I guess a little bit blunt so save time but to get into details. No, you don't HAVE to. But should you deny their request to identify your self you'll get hit with Section 23 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977. Failing those circumstances and not meeting the criteria you'll get hit with Section 24, Public Order Act, 1994. Warranting them to request that information.

What is not defined is what constitutes "in the opinion". OPINION

I reiterate OPINION.

I wouldn't not give them my details, for the reasons you have just stated.

My point was, you don't HAVE to.

Miike

And those of you who are the kind to say "WELL I'M INNOCENT WHY SHOULD I BE HARASSED LIKE?" Are 99.9% of the time the same demographic who would make such statements as "GO FOLLOW AROUND THE DRUG DEALERS AND KILLERS AND LEAVE ME ALONE!!"

If a member of AGS cannot make simple requests like identification of someone who do you expect them to continue their duty to protect the people of Ireland? or "follow around the drugs dealers and killers and catch them" etc etc etc.

F1ngers wrote: »

I wouldn't not give them my details, for the reasons you have just stated.

My point was, you don't HAVE to.

And failing to give the information required in those 2 of MANY instances where AGS can request you to identify could potentially land you arrested. All because of that OPINION you feel you the need to challenge, for no reason, whats so ever.

This country is turning more and more into the US where everyone throws their toys out of the pram because police forces are trying to do their duty. Get a grip.

The Purveyor of Truth

Wonder what Lugs Branigan did to those who refused to give him, or his men, their name and address.

F1ngers

Miike wrote: »

And those of you who are the kind to say "WELL I'M INNOCENT WHY SHOULD I BE HARASSED LIKE?" Are 99.9% of the time the same demographic who would make such statements as "GO FOLLOW AROUND THE DRUG DEALERS AND KILLERS AND LEAVE ME ALONE!!"

If a member of AGS cannot make simple requests like identification of someone who do you expect them to continue their duty to protect the people of Ireland? or "follow around the drugs dealers and killers and catch them" etc etc etc.



And failing to give the information required in those 2 of MANY instances where AGS can request you to identify could potentially land you arrested. All because of that OPINION you feel you the need to challenge, for no reason, whats so ever.

This country is turning more and more into the US where everyone throws their toys out of the pram because police forces are trying to do their duty. Get a grip.

Have you got a link to back up those stats?
Or are you just "being blunt and insincere to save time"...

Or just lying?

The Purveyor of Truth

Interesting section on this from the Citizens Information website:

Questioning - Common law powers.

Most of the powers given to the Gardaí to stop and question members of the public are set out in law (known as statutory powers). There are, however, a number of instances where a Garda is entitled to stop and question you where no statutory power exists. This is known as a common law power.

An example of this would be where a Garda observes you acting suspiciously late at night, in an area where a lot of crimes are being committed. The Garda is entitled to stop you in order to detect and prevent crime.

You are under no legal obligation to co-operate with the Garda and the Garda cannot use force to restrain your freedom under common law, short of arresting you.

However, if the Garda has reasonable grounds for suspecting that you committed an offence, the Garda can use a statutory power to demand your name and address. If you refuse to provide them, then the Garda can arrest you.

kippy

F1ngers wrote: »

Have you got a link to back up those stats?
Or are you just "being blunt and insincere to save time"...

Or just lying?

It's a fair point.
Why be so evasive about a simple request from AGS whether the law is on your side or not?

Miike

F1ngers wrote: »

Have you got a link to back up those stats?
Or are you just "being blunt and insincere to save time"...

Or just lying?

........ :rolleyes:


For the rest of you, competent, people out there who may be interested. RE: 24 hours of detainment/instances of identification.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1939/en/act/pub/0013/sec0030.html#zza13y1939s30http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1939/en/act/pub/0013/sec0030.html#zza13y1939s30

F1ngers

Miike wrote: »

........ :rolleyes:

So that's a no then.

I can do rolly eyes too...look::rolleyes:

Miike

F1ngers wrote: »

So that's a no then.

I can do rolly eyes too...look::rolleyes:

You're trying to render my point moot with semantics? I think you've completely neglected the point the post I made is trying to make. I rolled my eyes because of the carry on out of you. I think you should go back, read the information I've given you (as you requested) then return and form an argument against that. As opposed to forming an argument about the linguistics.

F1ngers

Miike wrote: »

You're trying to render my point moot with semantics? I think you've completely neglected the point the post I made is trying to make. I rolled my eyes because of the carry on out of you. I think you should go back, read the information I've given you (as you requested) then return and form an argument against that. As opposed to forming an argument about the linguistics.

You first stated(incorrectly) that you have to give your name.

You then admitted you lied and stated you don't have to give your name.

Then you started going on about drugs...blah, blah, blah.

I said you don't have to give your name from the beginning.

the_syco

Video reminded me of a "Freeman" video... anyhoos, it's nice they didn't say what pub there were at, wearing what, at what time and day, and also what had happened in a 5 block radius around the time of the arrest?

Miike

F1ngers wrote: »

Please post the relevant law that states that.

Miike wrote: »

In relation to my post I wasn't being sincere I guess a little bit blunt so save time but to get into details. No, you don't HAVE to. But should you deny their request to identify your self you'll get hit with Section 23 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977. Failing those circumstances and not meeting the criteria you'll get hit with Section 24, Public Order Act, 1994. Warranting them to request that information.

What is not defined is what constitutes "in the opinion". OPINION

I reiterate OPINION.

Miike wrote: »

........ :rolleyes:


For the rest of you, competent, people out there who may be interested. RE: 24 hours of detainment/instances of identification.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1939/en/act/pub/0013/sec0030.html#zza13y1939s30http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1939/en/act/pub/0013/sec0030.html#zza13y1939s30

F1ngers wrote: »

You first stated(incorrectly) that you have to give your name.

You then admitted you lied and stated you don't have to give your name.

Then you started going on about drugs...blah, blah, blah.

I said you don't have to give your name from the beginning.

I'm gonna eat my hat and just give up with you. Empty vessels and all that ****... Have a good life.

F1ngers

Miike wrote: »

I'm gonna eat my hat and just give up with you. Empty vessels and all that ****... Have a good life.

Again, with all those multi-quotes, you still don't have to give your name, unless they charge you.

If the gardai says to me "Excuse me sir or madam, you have committed no crime, nor are you suspected of committing a crime. What is your name?"

I do not have to tell them.

You eating your hat has made me very hungry.
Have been drinking since 9 and am now peckish.

TheBegotten

F1ngers wrote: »

Again, with all those multi-quotes, you still don't have to give your name, unless they charge you.

If the gardai says to me "Excuse me sir or madam, you have committed no crime, nor are you suspected of committing a crime. What is your name?"

I do not have to tell them.

You eating your hat has made me very hungry.
Have been drinking since 9 and am now peckish.

So can we establish that you are under no legal obligation to give them any sort of information unless they arrest you, but section 4 allows them to arrest you on suspicion of an offence for up to 24 hours without bringing charges?

So, you don't have to, but it would be a bad idea not to.

Miike

TheBegotten wrote: »

So can we establish that you are under no legal obligation to give them any sort of information unless they arrest you, but section 4 allows them to arrest you on suspicion of an offence for up to 24 hours without bringing charges?

So, you don't have to, but it would be a bad idea not to.

the short of the point I was trying to make is. If they WANT your name and address. They will get it.

WilyCoyote

TheChizler wrote: »

Criminal Justice Act 1984, section 6, part 1 (a) and 3. Only if they've been arrested under section 4 though.

Interestingly it says the detained must give HIS name. Are females exempt?...

I hope this does not inflame the flamers

mike hilux

I have a question along the same lines. How cheeky or blunt can you be to a guard.

I was on a stag in Dublin at the darts in the point last year. We were well on but causing no trouble. A few if us left early for a smoke and then were waiting outside for the rest of the lads to come out.

4 guards came down against us and even though there was plenty of space one walked straight into one of the boys. He wasn't the steadiest to start with and shunted forward into the circle we had formed. His exact words were "Jesus pal"

The guard came back and tore into us. Are you trying to make trouble boys. Sick of you lads from the country coming up thinking your something special.

We told him we were only waiting for the rest of the group and weren't doing anything and then I stupidly said that it was actually him that walked into us. He was like a terrier then and informed us that we were not to be waiting outside the point (02) so he told us if we didn't leave we would be basically arrested. No matter what we said about the rest of the lads he was having none of it

Then when we said we would go back inside he told us that we couldn't. We had to cross the road and stand beside the river before he was happy enough to leave us alone.

Left a terrible bad taste in my mouth and I often wondered if we could have retaliated much when he was dictating to us. Or basically told him to het a life

Miike

mike hilux wrote: »

I have a question along the same lines. How cheeky or blunt can you be to a guard.

I was on a stag in Dublin at the darts in the point last year. We were well on but causing no trouble. A few if us left early for a smoke and then were waiting outside for the rest of the lads to come out.

4 guards came down against us and even though there was plenty of space one walked straight into one of the boys. He wasn't the steadiest to start with and shunted forward into the circle we had formed. His exact words were "Jesus pal"

The guard came back and tore into us. Are you trying to make trouble boys. Sick of you lads from the country coming up thinking your something special.

We told him we were only waiting for the rest of the group and weren't doing anything and then I stupidly said that it was actually him that walked into us. He was like a terrier then and informed us that we were not to be waiting outside the point (02) so he told us if we didn't leave we would be basically arrested. No matter what we said about the rest of the lads he was having none of it

Then when we said we would go back inside he told us that we couldn't. We had to cross the road and stand beside the river before he was happy enough to leave us alone.

Left a terrible bad taste in my mouth and I often wondered if we could have retaliated much when he was dictating to us. Or basically told him to het a life

In that instance, a nicely worded "get a life" and follow it up their Sgt + Garda Ombudsman.

John_D80

TheBegotten wrote: »

.......but section 4 allows them to arrest you on suspicion of an offence for up to 24 hours without bringing charges?

Not quite the case AFAIK. To the best of my knowledge, on arrest you can be held for up to SIX hours without charge. For it to be extended by another SIX hours requires the consideration and approval of an Inspector or Superintendant I think.

For extended periods you need a judge to approve it if the person is not being charged. Of course if they ARE charged it pretty much means all bets are off and it'll be decided by a judge what becomes of them.

John_D80

mike hilux wrote: »

I have a question along the same lines. How cheeky or blunt can you be to a guard.

I was on a stag in Dublin at the darts in the point last year. We were well on but causing no trouble. A few if us left early for a smoke and then were waiting outside for the rest of the lads to come out.

4 guards came down against us and even though there was plenty of space one walked straight into one of the boys. He wasn't the steadiest to start with and shunted forward into the circle we had formed. His exact words were "Jesus pal"

The guard came back and tore into us. Are you trying to make trouble boys. Sick of you lads from the country coming up thinking your something special.

We told him we were only waiting for the rest of the group and weren't doing anything and then I stupidly said that it was actually him that walked into us. He was like a terrier then and informed us that we were not to be waiting outside the point (02) so he told us if we didn't leave we would be basically arrested. No matter what we said about the rest of the lads he was having none of it

Then when we said we would go back inside he told us that we couldn't. We had to cross the road and stand beside the river before he was happy enough to leave us alone.

Left a terrible bad taste in my mouth and I often wondered if we could have retaliated much when he was dictating to us. Or basically told him to het a life

A common scenario on the streets if Ireland's towns and cities. Just as in many walks of life there are w4nkers in the gaurds too. And plenty gaurds out there actively 'looking' for trouble. This chap was one of them by the sounds if it.

Plenty of gaurds take advantage of the fact that the people they want to pick on have been drinking. Also they are very quick to tell you about such and such an act or subsection to an act but half the time they are talking through their holes. They couldn't quote relevant acts to save their lives and just use it as a scare tactic.

By all means be co-operative with a gaurd who is just doing their job. But as adults we all know when someone is acting the prick with us.

Where does irish law stand on people (private citizens) recording their interactions with gaurds on a phone or other device??

UCDVet

In theory, the technicalities of the law are what matter. Every point made in this thread citing the actual law is correct and is what matters.

In practice, it actually doesn't matter. Because those same laws that technically say you don't have to give your name, also give lots and lots of power to the Gardai. And they are happy to use. And a few of them, they'd be happy to use more power than they legally should be able to - but unless you are rich or a legal expert, the only one who will be harmed, is you.

So you can, legally/correctly, refuse to give your name. And they can, legally/correctly, enforce every single tiny law, even the vague and generic ones, including the ones that let them *pretty much* arrest and detain just about anyone, for just about any thing.

I'm not saying it's right, but I'd rather have my child say, 'Hello Sir - my name is Jimmy O'UCDVet.' and be done with it, than get into a pissing match of what he does and doesn't *have* to do for the Gardai.

ruthloss

A question (if I may be so bold) I know you don't have to, but why would'nt you give your name to a Guard if he asked you?., just to be a dickhead is it?

The_Captain

If a Garda asks for your name and you refuse to give it to him, things are about to go downhill for you.

If you've done nothing wrong, just answer the question and go on your way.

GrumpyMe

ruthloss wrote: »

A question (if I may be so bold) I know you don't have to, but why would'nt you give your name to a Guard if he asked you?., just to be a dickhead is it?

Please allow me to do the proverbial Kerryman on that question!
Why would a Guard ask you to give him your name if he had not right to do so - just to be a dickhead is it?

catallus

Isn't the point about the whole thing if the guard has a reasonable belief a crime has been done: so if he/she comes up to you and asks for your name and you refuse to give it then it would be reasonable for them to think you're fishy?? So it's catch-22?

OP, that video sucked! I thought I was going to see a big row :mad::mad::mad: and I just got those fellas talking shíte!

gunny558

gunny558 wrote: »

I read a thread on here one time, some chap kept getting stopped and searched a few times a week under some drug law. THe thread went on for ages arguing back and forth would he have a case for harrassment seeing as he was never in trouble in his life and they never found him with drugs even after all the searches. But I remember the general gist was that this drug law pretty much gives them a free for all to stop and search anyone they suspect of having drugs and that sometimes they abuse that law (like in that chaps case) and harrass someone and there wasnt a whole lot he could do about it. Id take a guess this law (if its still about and not changed) would probably give them the go ahead to demand a name.

Pretty sure he was a troll and was sitebanned. If memory serves me correctly.

anncoates

Is this one of those bait police into arresting you so you can post it on you tube for your dopey mates type videos?

V.W.L 11

Section 4 of the criminal justice act 1984 allows them arrest you without warrant I know because I was once arrested under the act,got released after 8 hours