Scottish Independence discussion area

bobbysands81 · 07-09-2014 06:08PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What country rules Scotland presently then?

Well if it was Scotland there'd be no need for this referendum.

Dyr · 07-09-2014 06:12PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

The game changer will come this week in the form of the All party agreement to give the Scots more permission to make up their minds about their own future but there'll be enough checks and balances to ensure they remain subservient.

Presumably there'd a bar on putting such proposals forward this close to the actual vote.

Although with the UKs' unwritten constitution god only knows

Camac Hibs · 07-09-2014 06:21PM

Bambi wrote: »

Presumably there'd a bar on putting such proposals forward this close to the actual vote.

Although with the UKs' unwritten constitution god only knows

There is under the Scottish Referendum Act - apparently they are getting round that one by presenting it as a proposal by the 3 unionist parties, rather than the UK government.

It is really desperate stuff cobbling this together after thousands of people have already voted

bobbysands81 · 07-09-2014 06:22PM

Bambi wrote: »

Presumably there'd a bar on putting such proposals forward this close to the actual vote.

Although with the UKs' unwritten constitution god only knows

That's happening this week though.

A Dub in Glasgo · 07-09-2014 06:24PM

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0045/00458330.pdf

The No side refused to participate in a 3rd Darling / Salmond debate due to the postal votes going out :pac:

everdead.ie · 07-09-2014 06:36PM

The whole vote depends on what westminister commits to giving Scotland this week.

I think its also important that whatever is offered Better together say they will seek even more they dont have to actually do anything once the vote is done but t say they will seek even more will probably pacify a number of voters in the middle.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 07-09-2014 06:37PM

everdead.ie wrote: »

The whole vote depends on what westminister commits to giving Scotland this week.

I think its also important that whatever is offered Better together say they will seek even more they dont have to actually do anything once the vote is done but t say they will seek even more will probably pacify a number of voters in the middle.

If they make an official offer they break the rules

cloud493 · 07-09-2014 06:37PM

I just can't see it passing this generation. Maybe in 20 or so years.

everdead.ie · 07-09-2014 06:42PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

If they make an official offer they break the rules

Oh really I didn't realise that interesting so.

A Dub in Glasgo · 07-09-2014 06:44PM

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/4322-moore-echoes-douglas-homes-infamous-1979-promise-of-qsomething-betterq

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Perth

There is form here and it is highly unlikely that the people in Scotland will get more substantive powers if they give up their referendum

the UK establishment will go back to failing to deliver and will attack the Barnett formula

Fratton Fred · 07-09-2014 06:49PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Scotland has 52 out of 600 MPs in Westminster. Approx 9%, so even if all Scottish MPs agree on something they can be outvoted 10 times over.

I would most definitely call that being ruled over.

So, again then, northern Ireland would be mad to vote for unification then? Independence is their best option.

bobbysands81 · 07-09-2014 07:04PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So, again then, northern Ireland would be mad to vote for unification then? Independence is their best option.

Apples and oranges but whatever happens we live in a democracy and the democratic will of the people will have to be respected.

Comparing the two is facile and intentionally so.

The Diabolical Monocle · 07-09-2014 07:06PM

So hard to read London some times.
So perfidious and duplicitous, tis hard to know if any offer is genuine.

If I was making the call I'd go for the offer of partial independence but only with the agreement to a rerun of the referendum next year.

EunanMac · 07-09-2014 07:08PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So, again then, northern Ireland would be mad to vote for unification then? Independence is their best option.

Hardly, seeing as, unlike Scotland, NI pays only approx 6k per head in taxes, while costing the UK gov 10.5k per head.

No one wants the British created cess pit that is NI, the UK are currently stuck with them, but unlike Scotland, NI is not self sustaining.

kingchess · 07-09-2014 07:19PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What country rules Scotland presently then?

the COUNTRY that controls the check book??,the scottish revenue all goes to London,who then returns a block grant to the Scottish government to spend,

Scottie99 · 07-09-2014 08:20PM

Zonda999 wrote: »

The coverage of this really seems to have notched up in the last few days, I now expects the vested interests of the British media to do whatever they see fit to try and scare Scotland into voting No. Up to now, I think the same vested interests strategy was to try to give the referendum as little attention as possible.

If anyone wants to see any example of that scare tactic, the Daily Mail does a pretty good job of it

The scare tactics have been going for months and months. It's called #projectfear

Fratton Fred · 07-09-2014 08:21PM

kingchess wrote: »

the COUNTRY that controls the check book??,the scottish revenue all goes to London,who then returns a block grant to the Scottish government to spend,

Which country is that? Last I heard, London is a city.

Scottie99 · 07-09-2014 08:23PM

pablomakaveli wrote: »

It's not really like that though is it? The Scots can elect their own representatives to Westminster who have a say on what goes on there. I wouldn't call that being ruled over.

But don't influence the outcome of General Elections. Presently the Tories are in power, we've only one Tory in Scotland

Scottie99 · 07-09-2014 08:24PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Which country is that? Last I heard, London is a city.

Don't be facetious..

Iwasfrozen · 07-09-2014 08:30PM

Scottie99 wrote: »

Don't be facetious..

You're being facetious. You may as well say Edinburgh opresses Glasgow sincere former has control of the latters finances. Newsflash. That's how every country in the world works.

Fratton Fred · 07-09-2014 08:35PM

Scottie99 wrote: »

Don't be facetious..

Is it a difficult question then?

Fratton Fred · 07-09-2014 08:38PM

Scottie99 wrote: »

But don't influence the outcome of General Elections. Presently the Tories are in power, we've only one Tory in Scotland

We've just come out of a decade of rule by Labour with consecutive Scottish prime ministers. I presume that's ok, but elect a government you don't like and suddenly it's poor old Scotland.

A Dub in Glasgo · 07-09-2014 08:44PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You're being facetious. You may as well say Edinburgh opresses Glasgow sincere former has control of the latters finances. Newsflash. That's how every country in the world works.

Scotland is a country, it is in a union with another country that is obviously unequal therefore a decision is to be made if Scotland would like self-determination

A Dub in Glasgo · 07-09-2014 08:45PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

We've just come out of a decade of rule by Labour with consecutive Scottish prime ministers. I presume that's ok, but elect a government you don't like and suddenly it's poor old Scotland.

It would only be the same if the majority of MP's from England were Tory and only by Labour MP's from Scotland would Labour govern. That is not what happened and you well know it.

Fratton Fred · 07-09-2014 08:46PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Scotland is a country, it is in a union with another country that is obviously unequal therefore a decision is to be made if Scotland would like self-determination

Two other countries and a sort of semi country I think you'll find. There's four unique members of the union.

Fratton Fred · 07-09-2014 08:48PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

It would only be the same if the majority of MP's from England were Tory and only by Labour MP's from Scotland would Labour govern. That is not what happened and you well know it.

No, but it seems that Scotland only go on about Tory rule being unfair.

irishfeen · 07-09-2014 08:48PM

Scottie99 wrote: »

Salmond making some great points

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=OJgSPN_LBEM

Yep, some very good points he made there - the NO side have to be careful now not to push neutrals into the YES side ... their credibility seems to be on shaky ground even as it is.

A Dub in Glasgo · 07-09-2014 08:51PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Two other countries and a sort of semi country I think you'll find. There's four unique members of the union.

I put Wales into the same 'sort of semi country' as well

Scottie99 · 07-09-2014 08:54PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You're being facetious. You may as well say Edinburgh opresses Glasgow sincere former has control of the latters finances. Newsflash. That's how every country in the world works.

When the lad said London he meant the centre of power - he was been facetious

Scottie99 · 07-09-2014 08:55PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No, but it seems that Scotland only go on about Tory rule being unfair.

Even if it was Labour, we voted SNP. Could SNP get a majority in Westminister?

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