Beef in Crisis

tomwaterford · 06-09-2014 10:07PM

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Completely agree with you, but we should be getting a bigger slice of the pie.

im not saying you shouldn't (actually agreeing with ye-beef factories are particulary ruthless)

what im saying is....if they is a huge pick/over supply it is inevitable they will pay as low a figure as possible
if supply is low...price rises...if supply high price decreases...its economics

this issue will never end properly until the issue of supply and demand is met...pickets at factories/mcdonalds

/dail/ploughing championships...will only temperaly fix it at best
the only way to solve it...will need another large factory to open/exporter get going/or find some other use for the cattle

sandydan · 06-09-2014 10:07PM

Roundbale wrote: »

He was a lovely Judge alright.

do you think anything different would happen this time ,probably with added embargo preventing organisation involved from dissolving without court permission this time,wonder would members be liable in that case.

TUBBY · 06-09-2014 10:17PM

Heres a idea that might be worth exploring for the protests.

have the poster boys in the protest.
my example would be the lad in all the McDonalds adds and on posters in all their takeaways protesting outside it. Would send out a message.

same for the lads Tesco, aldi and lidl have everywhere as the suppliers/ we are farmers friends type stuff.

at the very least it would stop them trotting out the ads for a while.

Base price · 06-09-2014 11:07PM

TUBBY wrote: »

Heres a idea that might be worth exploring for the protests.

have the poster boys in the protest.
my example would be the lad in all the McDonalds adds and on posters in all their takeaways protesting outside it. Would send out a message.

same for the lads Tesco, aldi and lidl have everywhere as the suppliers/ we are farmers friends type stuff.

at the very least it would stop them trotting out the ads for a while.

TBH I have no problem with Aldi, Lidl or McD's TV advertising campaign. They are proud to sell quality Irish beef and I, as a farmer, am proud to produce same. They at least are buying Irish unlike some other outlets/restaurants who are using imported products.
Re Tesco - they seem to be the tail that is wagging the dog :mad:
So I go back to a previous post of mine earlier today where I stated that my problem is with the inactivity of the IFA for nearly a year.
They are the main farming organisation in Ireland who receive 50% of their funding directly from farmers, 35% directly from the sale of farming produce. 85% of their funding comes from the agri sector. Well it used too!!

Damo810 · 07-09-2014 04:06AM

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Completely agree with you, but we should be getting a bigger slice of the pie.

Which is what I tried to outline above, it's not simply supply demand, we're getting screw over either way.

Damo810 · 07-09-2014 04:10AM

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Just a thought,

Would a big protest/rally at this years ploughing match be any good???

Thousands of people over three days, plenty of cameras and non farming people to.

Plenty of farmers go to it so it should be easy to get support & educate people as to what is happening.

If we can't organise sumthing there, well we couldn't get a ride in a Hure house.

Posts like this is why I said to another poster in Pm, is exactly we need to keep this topic going. Initiative. Nice to see someone come up with ideas.

Only thing is, if we protest at the ploughing who are we protesting against? If it's the factories, do we target solely them or do we target the public with info? Will it have an effect? (I dont go to the ploughing, so I'm asking you lads, would it have any measurable effect?)

whelan2 · 07-09-2014 05:51AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

im not saying you shouldn't (actually agreeing with ye-beef factories are particulary ruthless)

what im saying is....if they is a huge pick/over supply it is inevitable they will pay as low a figure as possible
if supply is low...price rises...if supply high price decreases...its economics

this issue will never end properly until the issue of supply and demand is met...pickets at factories/mcdonalds/dail/ploughing championships...will only temperaly fix it at best
the only way to solve it...will need another large factory to open/exporter get going/or find some other use for the cattle

is this not where bord bia dept of ag should come in, looking for new markets? Thankfully at least you are listening to me, if the projected cattle figures for food harvest 2020 are to be achieved there must be a profitable market for these cattle. If prices can not be achieved now what will it be like then?

tvo · 07-09-2014 07:51AM

The only type of protest that may work is to withdraw supply of beef from the factories.this could be done if all farm organisations supported the move.unlikely to bite the hand that feeds and all that so not likely to happen.

TUBBY · 07-09-2014 08:23AM

Damo810 wrote: »

Posts like this is why I said to another poster in Pm, is exactly we need to keep this topic going. Initiative. Nice to see someone come up with ideas.

Only thing is, if we protest at the ploughing who are we protesting against? If it's the factories, do we target solely them or do we target the public with info? Will it have an effect? (I dont go to the ploughing, so I'm asking you lads, would it have any measurable effect?)

great idea. All parties in one place.

1 the factories tents. Last year they were seemingly ****ting it that there would be any negative publicity.

2 bor bia tent. 12c bonus is becoming a joke with recent figures showing how few qualify. Also the whole thing on farm being qa but only paying then on certain cattle.. If i send 20 cattle to factory and only get qa bonus on 12, does that mean the meat from the other 8 cant have the "from a qa bor bia farm" type thing on it. Of course it will be labelled as qa.

3 FG tent.

on another point, how are the mechanical graders calibrated. Most people i know are disappointed with grades. Are the graders independently inspected daily. A machine is only as good as the way it is set up. If you are calibrating a machine and also it is in your interest to pay as little as possible.......

Abfg · 07-09-2014 08:34AM

TUBBY wrote: »

great idea. All parties in one place.

1 the factories tents. Last year they were seemingly ****ting it that there would be any negative publicity.

2 bor bia tent. 12c bonus is becoming a joke with recent figures showing how few qualify. Also the whole thing on farm being qa but only paying then on certain cattle.. If i send 20 cattle to factory and only get qa bonus on 12, does that mean the meat from the other 8 cant have the "from a qa bor bia farm" type thing on it. Of course it will be labelled as qa.

3 FG tent.

on another point, how are the mechanical graders calibrated. Most people i know are disappointed with grades. Are the graders independently inspected daily. A machine is only as good as the way it is set up. If you are calibrating a machine and also it is in your interest to pay as little as possible.......

I agree with all the above but we need to look at a long term view and have a total seperation between farming groups and factories. You cannot have the factories financing the organisation that is supposed to be representing us against them!!!!!!!

Abfg · 07-09-2014 08:37AM

tvo wrote: »

The only type of protest that may work is to withdraw supply of beef from the factories.this could be done if all farm organisations supported the move.unlikely to bite the hand that feeds and all that so not likely to happen.

We need to shut down all factories and marts, the suggestion above is a good idea but you will always get the sneeky bastards that will be drawing cattle at night and doing deals behind everyone's back!

Kevin the sheep · 07-09-2014 09:46AM

Abfg wrote: »

We need to shut down all factories and marts, the suggestion above is a good idea but you will always get the sneeky bastards that will be drawing cattle at night and doing deals behind everyone's back!

Agree also but what about the people who are stuck for money and need to offload cattle kids in school/collage esb oil food etc if we blocked for two weeks or more there is a lot of people who would come under pressure also if people knew this was goining to happen would there not be a massive kill the week befor the protest ?

Willfarman · 07-09-2014 09:57AM

Base price wrote: »

TBH I have no problem with Aldi, Lidl or McD's TV advertising campaign. They are proud to sell quality Irish beef and I, as a farmer, am proud to produce same. They at least are buying Irish unlike some other outlets/restaurants who are using imported products.
Re Tesco - they seem to be the tail that is wagging the dog :mad:
So I go back to a previous post of mine earlier today where I stated that my problem is with the inactivity of the IFA for nearly a year.
They are the main farming organisation in Ireland who receive 50% of their funding directly from farmers, 35% directly from the sale of farming produce. 85% of their funding comes from the agri sector. Well it used too!!

They needed an mandate from the ordinary farmer members. And I get no sense of pride from processors and retailers making money off my back. Not giving a **** if I survive or not, and then advertising to irish consumers claiming that they are supporting me! Do you bring the missus to mcdonalds for a floppy burger base price after a spot of fencing to feel the pride?

Muckit · 07-09-2014 10:01AM

Abfg wrote: »

We need to shut down all factories and marts!

Whatever about the factories, marts should be kept out of this imo. If any of them went under we would be screwed altogether.

Hootanany · 07-09-2014 10:11AM

Why dont you set up your own network for selling Beef cut out the middle man.

whelan2 · 07-09-2014 10:33AM

Hootanany wrote: »

Why dont you set up your own network for selling Beef cut out the middle man.

was just looking at an ad in yesterdays irish indo, Achill mountain lamb, whole lamb butchered , boxed 99 euro + 15 euro delivery nationwide. www.calveysofachill.com interesting idea and not costing a bomb either. Could something similar be done for beef?

epfff · 07-09-2014 10:39AM

SDontp your own nwhatsk not possible with money and regulations

Can the store men please stop calling for blockades as they obviosuly Dont understand regulation for killing and the reality of running a high turnover capital intensive business

Is their any finisher here that wants a blockade?

Abfg · 07-09-2014 10:42AM

Muckit wrote: »

Whatever about the factories, marts should be kept out of this imo. If any of them went under we would be screwed altogether.

Until our gob****e of a minister brings in legislation to stop Larry owning feedlots and factories(similar to the US) we have to stop him by cutting off the supply to both. We never had a better opportunity, rumoured all the sfp is out in October and everyone has loads of fodder. It's time to make a stand it could be our last.

Base price · 07-09-2014 11:32AM

Willfarman wrote: »

They needed an mandate from the ordinary farmer members. And I get no sense of pride from processors and retailers making money off my back. Not giving a **** if I survive or not, and then advertising to irish consumers claiming that they are supporting me! Do you bring the missus to mcdonalds for a floppy burger base price after a spot of fencing to feel the pride?

So it took nearly a year to get a mandate and in the meantime the factories continued to reap the financial rewards on the backs of us farmers.
Farmer Pudsey put up a thread a few weeks ago asking how many people would be finishing beef this winter. The majority of people said that either they would not be or would have reduced numbers. A lot of farmers/finishers are in serious debt due to the carry on by the factories. The factories have managed to wipe out a number of farmers/finishers and will capitalise on this by expanding their own feed lots and controlling prices/kill rates yet again.
Lidl, Aldi and McD's could easily use imported meat but they don't. They support Irish produce and without that support beef prices would be really fecked. Their advertising campaigns at least promotes Irish beef and are far better than Bord Bia's efforts.
And yes, I occasionally go to McD's for a burger & fries with OH and am proud that I know I am eating Irish beef.

rangler1 · 07-09-2014 11:42AM

Base price wrote: »

Well someone is telling porkies so.
According to the handout in the IFJ a couple of weeks ago, funding comes from three sources a) 35% from EIF levy, b) 50% from membership fees and c) 15% other income sources such as FBD Trust and IFA Member Services.
So if I read the figures correctly 50% of funds comes directly from memberships i.e. farmers.
.

Think you 're pleading ignorance here to suit you. Posters on here are accusing us of being influenced by the levy, and I'm saying the farmers like myself that work for IFA have very little to do with organising the funding of IFA.
I've never gone round selling membership even, that's how much I'm worried about the funding of IFA

Base price · 07-09-2014 11:43AM

Willfarman would it not be fairer to say that the reason there was no IFA action prior to this is due to the fact that the factories were not prepaired to discuss the matter while the cattle kill numbers were high and they could capitalise financially.
Now that the numbers are down the factories will hold token discussions to appease farmers, IFA and Minister of Ag. It will be interesting to see what the outcome of these discussions will be and for how long any proposals remain in place.

Base price · 07-09-2014 11:47AM

rangler1 wrote: »

How many times do I have to tell you that very few of the farmers in IFA have any thing to do with funding of the organisation.

rangler1 wrote: »

Think you 're pleading ignorance here to suit you. Posters on here are accusing us of being influenced by the levy, and I'm saying the farmers like myself that work for IFA have very little to do with organising the funding of IFA.
I've never gone round selling membership even, that's how much I'm worried about the funding of IFA

No not pleading ignorance just responding to the statement that you made in your post. In fairness it reads quite differently from what your intention was.

Willfarman · 07-09-2014 11:55AM

Base price wrote: »

Willfarman would it not be fairer to say that the reason there was no IFA action prior to this is due to the fact that the factories were not prepaired to discuss the matter while the cattle kill numbers were high and they could capitalise financially.
Now that the numbers are down the factories will hold token discussions to appease farmers, IFA and Minister of Ag. It will be interesting to see what the outcome of these discussions will be and for how long any proposals remain in place.

I don't know. It's plausible I think yes.
We hadn't many chips to bargain with in the spring with cattle eating ad lb meal.
However in June I felt we had and I contacted wexford ifa and was told there was no appetite among farmers to tackle the issue of feedlots and price I posted on this at the time.
They waited until the horse bolted I suppose. Now after a price has collapsed further if it recovers a bit it will be called a rise and everyone is happy again. We will live on the pride that the retailers instill in Us while they make fortunes!

rangler1 · 07-09-2014 11:58AM

Base price wrote: »

So it took nearly a year to get a mandate and in the meantime the factories continued to reap the financial rewards on the backs of us farmers.
Farmer Pudsey put up a thread a few weeks ago asking how many people would be finishing beef this winter. The majority of people said that either they would not be or would have reduced numbers. A lot of farmers/finishers are in serious debt due to the carry on by the factories. The factories have managed to wipe out a number of farmers/finishers and will capitalise on this by expanding their own feed lots and controlling prices/kill rates yet again.
Lidl, Aldi and McD's could easily use imported meat but they don't. They support Irish produce and without that support beef prices would be really fecked. Their advertising campaigns at least promotes Irish beef and are far better than Bord Bia's efforts.
And yes, I occasionally go to McD's for a burger & fries with OH and am proud that I know I am eating Irish beef.

Henry burns and his committee have done everything possible, and If farmers carry on the way they are they'll get no farmers to take up positions in IFA,, why would anyone be bothered, beef farmers wouldn't even support our protests....pathetic
You tell us we should honour supermarkets that stock our beef, even though they rip us off in the process...equally pathetic

Willfarman · 07-09-2014 12:00PM

Base price wrote: »

So it took nearly a year to get a mandate and in the meantime the factories continued to reap the financial rewards on the backs of us farmers.
Farmer Pudsey put up a thread a few weeks ago asking how many people would be finishing beef this winter. The majority of people said that either they would not be or would have reduced numbers. A lot of farmers/finishers are in serious debt due to the carry on by the factories. The factories have managed to wipe out a number of farmers/finishers and will capitalise on this by expanding their own feed lots and controlling prices/kill rates yet again.
Lidl, Aldi and McD's could easily use imported meat but they don't. They support Irish produce and without that support beef prices would be really fecked. Their advertising campaigns at least promotes Irish beef and are far better than Bord Bia's efforts.
And yes, I occasionally go to McD's for a burger & fries with OH and am proud that I know I am eating Irish beef.

If they can import beef and get a better return on it I think they would have no problem in doing so.

Base price · 07-09-2014 12:19PM

rangler1 wrote: »

Henry burns and his committee have done everything possible, and If farmers carry on the way they are they'll get no farmers to take up positions in IFA,, why would anyone be bothered, beef farmers wouldn't even support our protests....pathetic
You tell us we should honour supermarkets that stock our beef, even though they rip us off in the process...equally pathetic

We never received any text informing us that about protests been held at supermarkets. I have no problem attending such protests (work commitments aside). I supported the blockade at Kepak Clonee back in the day.
I do not agree that Henry Burns and his committee have done everything possible. In my opinion they only got going a few weeks ago and should have been more proactive earlier in the year.
I do agree with you about not blockading the factories, aside from the possible litigation factor. Farmers cannot hold onto stock indefinitely and to ask them to do so would be unfair.

rangler1 · 07-09-2014 01:25PM

Base price wrote: »

We never received any text informing us that about protests been held at supermarkets. I have no problem attending such protests (work commitments aside). I supported the blockade at Kepak Clonee back in the day.
I do not agree that Henry Burns and his committee have done everything possible. In my opinion they only got going a few weeks ago and should have been more proactive earlier in the year.
I do agree with you about not blockading the factories, aside from the possible litigation factor. Farmers cannot hold onto stock indefinitely and to ask them to do so would be unfair.

Henry has been working on this since the start, Eddie was at meetings about it even before he became president, nothing was going to change until farmers stopped throwing cattle at factories
There was lot going on earlier in the year, a few protests were arranged, but were badly supported, a huge amount of texts went out for those, Your branch chairman and delegates would be notified about the supermarket protests.
All your questions would have been answered if you were in Castlerea last Thurs, there's another meeting in Tullamore next week I think

sandydan · 07-09-2014 01:35PM

Willfarman wrote: »

If they can import beef and get a better return on it I think they would have no problem in doing so.

question , are you sure its beef from where ever it says on label , some doubt it and beef used on packets marked as QA on label seems to support this allegation,if producer isn't paid as QA for animal. this raises further question is imported beef blended into product from QA certified farms that isn't paid for as Qa product to cover their tails and imo its not checked either . if it was how did horsemeat get past inspections till found in food products.

Base price · 07-09-2014 01:46PM

sandydan wrote: »

question , are you sure its beef from where ever it says on label , some doubt it and beef used on packets marked as QA on label seems to support this allegation,if producer isn't paid as QA for animal. this raises further question is imported beef blended into product from QA certified farms that isn't paid for as Qa product to cover their tails and imo its not checked either . if it was how did horsemeat get past inspections till found in food products.

I know there was an issue over the origins of some pork sold in butcher outlets but I never heard of an issue with Bord Bia labelled food. A pretty serious allegation.
http://www.agriland.ie/news/half-pigmeat-products-butchers-irish/

coolshannagh28 · 07-09-2014 04:40PM

sandydan wrote: »

question , are you sure its beef from where ever it says on label , some doubt it and beef used on packets marked as QA on label seems to support this allegation,if producer isn't paid as QA for animal. this raises further question is imported beef blended into product from QA certified farms that isn't paid for as Qa product to cover their tails and imo its not checked either . if it was how did horsemeat get past inspections till found in food products.

That's a fair point is the QA animal streamed onto a specific QA processing line after slaughter , The last time I killed cattle in the factory I asked for the pre slaughter weight so I could work out a killout % and they looked at me as if I had two heads . A lot of sharp practise goes on in there and although horsemeat has cleaned it up a bit because of retailer inspections the farmer ultimately pays .

Beef in Crisis

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