Scottish Independence discussion area

Fratton Fred · 06-09-2014 08:38AM

Scottie99 wrote: »

Do you honestly think we give a sh1te?

Yes, actually I do.

Scottie99 · 06-09-2014 08:42AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yes, actually I do.

"Your sadly mistaken"

Fratton Fred · 06-09-2014 08:47AM

Scottie99 wrote: »

No you didn't say that but you were implying that we couldn't afford NHS,education etc after indy. What we hear often from London STILL that it's English money that's propping up Scotland. Utter bull!!
Scotland will not be utopia, it'll be tough at the start. I'm sure they'll be lots in the press about this and that, mistakes made but in time we will become good. Hopefully, down south English people will look up north saying, " why aren't we getting free Uni fees, prescriptions, auld folks homes" etc Hopefully this will kick the political classes in the arse and force them to do something..

There's a difference between not affording it and getting it all for free, like you do at the moment.

Scottie99 · 06-09-2014 08:48AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There's a difference between not affording it and getting it all for free, like you do at the moment.

Clearly your not listening, I'm off

Fratton Fred · 06-09-2014 08:51AM

Scottie99 wrote: »

"Your sadly mistaken"

Rubbish, the whinging Scots are obsessed with the English. The whole yes campaign is based on "the nasty English bastards are ripping us off".

Fratton Fred · 06-09-2014 08:54AM

Scottie99 wrote: »

Clearly your not listening, I'm off

Same as Salmond to be honest. A few smart comments, a couple of witty cartoons, the promise of free beer tomorrow, but scratch under the surface and there's little substance.

A Dub in Glasgo · 06-09-2014 09:56AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbW_AT64m8E

EunanMac · 06-09-2014 09:59AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

And if you think, for one minute, the rest of the UK especially your only neighbour, will miss you, you are sadly mistaken.

You will be missing their taxes, oil, and bases, and they are net contributors to the uk, not receivers.

Madam · 06-09-2014 10:48AM

Why does Fred become so angry about a yes vote in a country he doesn't live in and has no idea of the mood in Scotland at the moment which is mostly very optimistic for a yes vote? It's people like him who infect us all be we yes or no for independence with his negativity(which turns us all off the no campaign imo).

EunanMac · 06-09-2014 10:58AM

Madam wrote: »

Why does Fred become so angry about a yes vote in a country he doesn't live in and has no idea of the mood in Scotland at the moment which is mostly very optimistic for a yes vote? It's people like him who infect us all be we yes or no for independence with his negativity(which turns us all off the no campaign imo).

Because the strange UK of dumps like Northern England, Wales and NI, is none too attractive a prospect, either financially or otherwise.

irishfeen · 06-09-2014 11:02AM

Any opinion polls out this weekend I wonder?

Fratton Fred · 06-09-2014 11:14AM

Madam wrote: »

Why does Fred become so angry about a yes vote in a country he doesn't live in and has no idea of the mood in Scotland at the moment which is mostly very optimistic for a yes vote? It's people like him who infect us all be we yes or no for independence with his negativity(which turns us all off the no campaign imo).

I'm not angry, don't for a minute think I am. If the Scots want independence then good luck to them.

I haven't said they should vote no, only that the promises being made by the yes campaign need to be seriously examined.

As I said, anything which questions the yes campaign's rose tinted view is considered negative. It is simply realism.

Fratton Fred · 06-09-2014 11:15AM

EunanMac wrote: »

You will be missing their taxes, oil, and bases, and they are net contributors to the uk, not receivers.

Please see my earlier post regarding hands and buckets of water.

Fratton Fred · 06-09-2014 11:15AM

EunanMac wrote: »

Because the strange UK of dumps like Northern England, Wales and NI, is none too attractive a prospect, either financially or otherwise.

??

smcgiff · 06-09-2014 11:25AM

irishfeen wrote: »

Any opinion polls out this weekend I wonder?

Yes - tomorrow. Rumours of very little difference between yes and no or even a small yes vote majority :eek:

irishfeen · 06-09-2014 11:27AM

smcgiff wrote: »

Yes - tomorrow. Rumours of very little difference between yes and no or even a small yes vote majority :eek:

Will be very interesting to see - any tightening could lead to open warfare from the No side..

Madam · 06-09-2014 11:28AM

Funny too Fred you go on about 'whinging' Scots, you do know there are many nationalities living in Scotland who have the right to vote.

smcgiff · 06-09-2014 11:31AM

irishfeen wrote: »

Will be very interesting to see - any tightening could lead to open warfare from the No side..

It's possible they believed their own funded/biased polls which showed them having a massive lead which has lead them to being complacent.

It would be massive if this happened. One of the oldest flags in the world becoming obsolete, and even the term British will become diluted at best.

irishfeen · 06-09-2014 11:35AM

smcgiff wrote: »

It's possible they believed their own funded/biased polls which showed them having a massive lead which has lead them to being complacent.

It would be massive if this happened. One of the oldest flags in the world becoming obsolete, and even the term British will become diluted at best.

Well when we went independent they never removed the St Patrick's Cross from the flag so they could very well just keep it the same.

smcgiff · 06-09-2014 11:38AM

irishfeen wrote: »

Well when we went independent they never removed the St Patrick's Cross from the flag so they could very well just keep it the same.

That's because it still represents Northern Ireland.

irishfeen · 06-09-2014 11:46AM

smcgiff wrote: »

That's because it still represents Northern Ireland.

I suppose so but the Patrick's Cross was to represent the island - there was calls to remove it in 1922 but London said it would cost too much.

EunanMac · 06-09-2014 01:50PM

irishfeen wrote: »

Well when we went independent they never removed the St Patrick's Cross from the flag so they could very well just keep it the same.

The harp, signifying Ireland, with an English crown above it, also remains on the Royal coat of arms
Be interesting to see what they do when Scotland buggers off.

Nomis21 · 06-09-2014 01:55PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What's the EU said on their end I assume If they vote for independence they will not be automatically invited to the EU and many many targets and such like will be needed to be met if joining is even an option. Same with the currency has it not already been said the pound is not an option. Wont the EU be making it really difficult to join as they Don’t want EU countries splitting up.

The Channel Islands and Isle of Man are not in the EU but retain most of the advantages of membership and doing very well, thank you.

The North of England welcomes Scottish Independance. That speaks volumes.

EunanMac · 06-09-2014 01:58PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What's the EU said on their end I assume If they vote for independence they will not be automatically invited to the EU and many many targets and such like will be needed to be met if joining is even an option. Same with the currency has it not already been said the pound is not an option. Wont the EU be making it really difficult to join as they Don’t want EU countries splitting up.

As a wealthy country, Scotland would be expected to be a net contributor to the EU rather than a net gainer, I can't see how EU membership would be all that useful to them

EunanMac · 06-09-2014 02:00PM

smcgiff wrote: »

It's possible they believed their own funded/biased polls which showed them having a massive lead which has lead them to being complacent.

It would be massive if this happened. One of the oldest flags in the world becoming obsolete, and even the term British will become diluted at best.

The term "Great Britain" will become a historical curiosity

Nomis21 · 06-09-2014 02:52PM

EunanMac wrote: »

The term "Great Britain" will become a historical curiosity

"Great" in this context refers to its size viz á viz Bretagne in France. Great Britain was given the adjective "Great" just to differentiate the two regions some hundreds of years ago.

EunanMac · 06-09-2014 02:54PM

Nomis21 wrote: »

"Great" in this context refers to its size viz á viz Bretagne in France. Great Britain was given the adjective "Great" just to differentiate the two regions some hundreds of years ago.

Someone should have told Thatcher that before her famous Falklands speech.
I wonder how they would have got on out there without the Scottish regiments, which were pivotal in the battles.

Antar Bolaeisk · 06-09-2014 03:26PM

smcgiff wrote: »

It's possible they believed their own funded/biased polls which showed them having a massive lead which has lead them to being complacent.

It would be massive if this happened. One of the oldest flags in the world becoming obsolete, and even the term British will become diluted at best.

Maybe they'll finally add Wales to the flag

They should probably update all that Christian symbolism to reflect a more multi-cultural Britain, maybe add a crescent moon...

smcgiff · 06-09-2014 03:26PM

EunanMac wrote: »

The harp, signifying Ireland, with an English crown above it, also remains on the Royal coat of arms
Be interesting to see what they do when Scotland buggers off.

She'll still be Queen of Scotland... for now. So no change there for a while.

MakeEmLaugh · 06-09-2014 04:03PM

EunanMac wrote: »

The term "Great Britain" will become a historical curiosity

No more than Scandinavia.

irishfeen wrote: »

I suppose so but the Patrick's Cross was to represent the island - there was calls to remove it in 1922 but London said it would cost too much.

The issue of removing the Cross of St Patrick from the British flag was also raised in the Dáil in 1961 by Frank Sherwin, an independent TD who was quite a hardline republican. Frank Aiken, then Minister for External Affairs, shot it down.

Frank Aiken: I do not agree with the Deputy's contention that the Union Jack symbolises the unity of Ireland, England and Scotland. Our national objective is to achieve the unity and independence of Ireland and not waste time on heraldic disputations. Let us hope that the display of St. Patrick's cross will help us achieve our objective.

Frank Sherwin: Is the Minister aware that in the Library with my own eyes, and with the help of the Librarian, I read that the present design was brought following the Act of Union and that it does in fact symbolise that hated unity of 1801 of England, Scotland and Ireland? Is he further aware that it is provocative and leads to incidents every time it is flown here? Is he also aware that this would give him an opportunity to avoid these unpleasantnesses? Now, Sir, would you think that over?

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