Immigration saturation point.

jimgoose · 05-09-2014 11:43PM

There's a bastard living a few doors up and I think he might be Welsh.

HIB · 05-09-2014 11:47PM

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population

Some interesting figures from wikipedia.

Looking at some of the Western nations.

Apparently Ireland has a proportionally larger number of immigrants (as a % of population) than the UK, Germany, France and Holland. We also have marginally more than the US. But New Zealand, Australia, and Switzerland top the poll by a stretch. I know Australia actively encouraged immigration in the past (still do for immigrants with specific skills I think?). So that explains that. Maybe New Zealand do the same.

Annasopra · 05-09-2014 11:56PM

The Dagda wrote: »

The OP is not a racist, but...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29139346/inrb2.jpg

Gatling · 06-09-2014 12:00AM

jimgoose wrote: »

There's a bastard living a few doors up and I think he might be Welsh.

Lock up your sheep
and hide your medallion

NightOfTheHunt · 06-09-2014 12:02AM

Why is it frowned upon in society to have any sort of negative view on immigration?

The OP is being ridiculed for even questioning some aspect of immigration. Of course there is such a thing as saturation point. Nigeria has a population of 168 million people for example, which the vast majority of would have a much better quality of life in Ireland. Obviously we do not have the financial resources, land, etc to support such a level of immigration. I don't think even the most liberal people in favor of immigration/asylum seeking would disagree with that.

We do however easily have the resources to support a much smaller number of immigrants (say 1,000 for example) - Again, I don't think even those people staunchly opposing immigration would disagree with that.

The "saturation point" very much exists and it is somewhere between those extreme figures I mentioned in the examples above. To deny such a concept exists is pure ignorance.

bb1234567 · 06-09-2014 12:04AM

Well it depends completely where you are. Like in my primary school which was in Rathmines Id say easily half of the class were non irish. But in my secondary school in Ranelagh ,out of the 80 boys in my year, 79 were white irish and one was white british.I finished there last year. So I think it differs hugely from place to place.

anewme · 06-09-2014 12:10AM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29139346/inrb2.jpg

Rather than post facts or give constructive feedback like the stats posted above, which at least forms the basis for a discussion on the topic, seriously, how can people think horseS**t like this add anything constructive to anything.

Archeron · 06-09-2014 12:12AM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29139346/inrb2.jpg

That definitely ranks in the top 5 angriest nazi unicorns I have ever seen.

Kermit.de.frog · 06-09-2014 12:42AM

NightOfTheHunt wrote: »

The OP is being ridiculed for even questioning some aspect of immigration.

The answer to that is very simple. Until now immigration has been kept mostly to the lower working class/lower earning/higher unemployment areas so the majority in the middle which is the demographic that actually matters electorally have not really witnessed it.

The kicker is that they have not witnessed it in their areas "yet". But when the demographic change becomes just as visible in middle class areas as is inevitable then i'd be concerned attitudes will change very quickly. Because the rate of demographic change that has gone on in certain working class areas around Dublin in particular in the last 10 years I can say with absolute certainty will not be greeted well when it comes to middle Ireland.

However it has to be pointed out no policy could really avoid it tbh.

foggy_lad · 06-09-2014 12:53AM

Naimless wrote: »

It's a simple observation, we were in a playground and I counted 24 people, us 2 are Irish every other person (22) in there was foreign, 4 different nationalitys I counted excluding ours.

Is this a normal ratio in other parts of dublin/Ireland, I'm looking for other peoples views of their area, as I think we have reached saturation point.

One explanation is that foreign people tend to make much better use of local facilities such as play areas and community centres and all that goes on in them than Irish people who often are too "snobbish" to use the local playground because they think it is dirty or full of council estate or foreign children.

I have also noticed that foreign people will make full use of forest parks and other walkways along rivers etc on weekends while the irish sit in front of the telly or on the nearest barstool.

Inanna · 06-09-2014 12:56AM

NightOfTheHunt wrote: »

Why is it frowned upon in society to have any sort of negative view on immigration?

Because it's so often used as a cover for xenophobia. It doesn't take much for the real reasons to bubble to the surface.

dxhound2005 · 06-09-2014 01:09AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The answer to that is very simple. Until now immigration has been kept mostly to the lower working class/lower earning/higher unemployment areas so the majority in the middle which is the demographic that actually matters electorally have not really witnessed it.

The kicker is that they have not witnessed it in their areas "yet". But when the demographic change becomes just as visible in middle class areas as is inevitable then i'd be concerned attitudes will change very quickly. Because the rate of demographic change that has gone on in certain working class areas around Dublin in particular in the last 10 years I can say with absolute certainty will not be greeted well when it comes to middle Ireland.

However it has to be pointed out no policy could really avoid it tbh.

In absolute numbers Dublin has the most non nationals. This would mirror the experience of emigration worldwide, for instance Irish people going abroad would also gravitate in larger numbers to big cities like New York and London.

But as a proportion of the local population there are plenty of towns with a higher percentage of non nationals than Dublin has. And the largest increase between the censuses of 2006 and 2011 happened in Laois. You can see the information below in very detailed form. The most striking thing is the increase in Poles from 2,000 people in 2002 to 122,000 in 2011. But there are nearly as many UK people here and that number didn't change much since 2002. Nigerians also had a presence here in 2002 unlike say Slovaks or Hungarians and they have increased but not to the extent that some people imagine. Poles and Brits obviously tend to go unnoticed more because of their skin colour.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/census2011profile6/Profile,6,Migration,and,Diversity,entire,doc.pdf

Packrat · 06-09-2014 02:18AM

Jeer, scoff, accuse of racism. Job done, discussion shut down. The ignorant working class must have their concerns beaten out of them.
No problems in Ranelagh yet. I need a maid and a toilet attendant.
/thread.

Inanna · 06-09-2014 02:35AM

Ah. Playing the martyr. How terribly predictable. If you can't win people over with fear then try the old sympathy route.

Stay classy!

Colinf1212 · 06-09-2014 03:55AM

Wow racist people make me sick. It's 2014 and people are still racist? Get with the picture, classist bigotry is the way forward! Bit of classism never killed anyone sure!

Revoker88 · 06-09-2014 04:33AM

Yes its 2014,and we still cant discuss issues about immigration without people throwing the racist accusations at people:(

The OP may be a closet racist for all i know,does not mean the rest of us cant discuss it in a rational and respectful manner.

And just to be clear,im not accusing the OP of being racist. The evidence in the OP may be anecdotal and not anything factual but that does not make him a racist

davemc180 · 06-09-2014 06:02AM

our flood gates are open way to long...

I work in a job where I meet hundreds of people a week

the past few years the decline in irish close to the city center is huge..

keeponhurling · 06-09-2014 09:24AM

Colinf1212 wrote: »

Wow racist people make me sick. It's 2014 and people are still racist? Get with the picture, classist bigotry is the way forward! Bit of classism never killed anyone sure!

Is this posted in the wrong thread ?

pavb2 · 06-09-2014 09:40AM

I'm currently living/working in Birmingham one of the most multi cultural cities in the UK.

My experience is that you don't notice the colour of peoples skin or ethnicity you simply just see people as people like anybody else.

Maybe in Ireland we are the ones out of step and we shouldnt expect a single race society with little diversity and accept that multi culturism is the norm.

After all We all know that people are the same where ever we go
There is good and bad in everyone
We learn to live, and we learn to give
Each other what we need to survive together aliiiiiiiiiiiiivvvvvve

Frank Lee Midere · 06-09-2014 09:46AM

Packrat wrote: »

Jeer, scoff, accuse of racism. Job done, discussion shut down. The ignorant working class must have their concerns beaten out of them.
No problems in Ranelagh yet. I need a maid and a toilet attendant.
/thread.

Yes. In fact the house price rises in the southside probably keep the place free of foreigners and most Irish people too. I remember reading during the boom that the population dropped in South Dublin, uniquely in Ireland.

The difference, even today, is startling. At rush hour Pearse street station is packed on the north bound carriages but empty going South.

beks101 · 06-09-2014 09:48AM

If anything it might 'pretty' up the Irish race, lord knows we could do with a wider gene pool

Frank Lee Midere · 06-09-2014 09:52AM

From an economic perspective I wonder if mass immigration isn't just amplifying boom and bust cycles everywhere. The US is extremely large so it can handle lots of immigration. In the 19th century it was comparatively empty.

Ireland 4 million people. 400 million people can immigrate to it. English speaking. Relatively rich.

In boom times populations surge. House prices surge. In recessions populations collapse. House prices collapse. Rinse repeat. Exacerbated by the euro.

Globslisation is really not delivering.

I think most countries should have positive net migration in good times but it needs larger controls.

Frank Lee Midere · 06-09-2014 09:53AM

beks101 wrote: »

If anything it might 'pretty' up the Irish race, lord knows we could do with a wider gene pool

That's not an economic argument. Although it is a racist one.

Frank Lee Midere · 06-09-2014 09:55AM

pavb2 wrote: »

I'm currently living/working in Birmingham one of the most multi cultural cities in the UK.

My experience is that you don't notice the colour of peoples skin or ethnicity you simply just see people as people like anybody else.

Maybe in Ireland we are the ones out of step and we shouldnt expect a single race society with little diversity and accept that multi culturism is the norm.

After all We all know that people are the same where ever we go
There is good and bad in everyone
We learn to live, and we learn to give
Each other what we need to survive together aliiiiiiiiiiiiivvvvvve

Yeah. I don't that that's totally the picture in the UK.

UCDVet · 06-09-2014 09:56AM

I don't know if this makes me more or less 'racist' - but I'm not Irish. I'm an immigrant. I came to Ireland because I thought it was in my best interest as an individual.

Having said that - I think Ireland is long past the immigration saturation point. Or at least Dublin is. Maybe people are fine with that, but, if I were Irish, I don't think I'd like it very much.

These days, we're all taught to respect other cultures. And I agree. When I go to X, I'm all for respecting X's culture. But if you bring in enough X,Y, and Z - the culture that you had is gone. You're left with something else.

I live and work in the heart of Dublin. The capital of Ireland. But when I ride Dublin Bus I'm more likely to overhear a conversation in some other language than I am people with an Irish accent. I work on a team with nine people - three of which are Irish. I'm sorry, but that seems wrong.

Frank Lee Midere · 06-09-2014 09:57AM

HIB wrote: »

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population

Some interesting figures from wikipedia.

Looking at some of the Western nations.

Apparently Ireland has a proportionally larger number of immigrants (as a % of population) than the UK, Germany, France and Holland. We also have marginally more than the US. But New Zealand, Australia, and Switzerland top the poll by a stretch. I know Australia actively encouraged immigration in the past (still do for immigrants with specific skills I think?). So that explains that. Maybe New Zealand do the same.

Both those countries can reduce immigration to 0% if they wish. So can Switzerland.

fedor.2. · 06-09-2014 09:58AM

OP asks a simple question, out comes the wrist-wringing, righteous indignation brigade to personally insult him for no reason.

Fcukin cliches, the lot of ye.

ireland.man · 06-09-2014 10:01AM

Packrat wrote: »

Jeer, scoff, accuse of racism. Job done, discussion shut down. The ignorant working class must have their concerns beaten out of them.
No problems in Ranelagh yet. I need a maid and a toilet attendant.
/thread.

If you really are for the interests of the working class and less well off in Ireland you'd be supporting a pan-class approach to problems, not a nationalist one. If there's not enough houses for all working class people, join with all who suffer because of that including immigrants and fight the govt over it.

Frank Lee Midere · 06-09-2014 10:03AM

ireland.man wrote: »

If you really are for the interests of the working class and less well off in Ireland you'd be supporting a pan-class approach to problems, not a nationalist one. If there's not enough houses for all working class people, join with all who suffer because of that including immigrants and fight the govt over it.

That's nonsense. If 2 million people came to Ireland a month how could we build enough houses ? Who would pay.

Capitalists support mass immigration. Until the seventies or eighties the left used to oppose it. Then the middle classes and theorists took over.

mairerua · 06-09-2014 10:03AM

Saturation point will only occur when a given group are in the majority and local laws can be changed in order to accommodate that group.

I haven't lived in Ireland for many years, but when I did it was not possible for non-Catholics to adopt children - is this still the case?

OP - are you familiar with the term "white flight"? It seems to have happened in many city centre areas of London.

Immigration saturation point.

Comments