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Rules thread

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    #32
    onlyfinewine
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭onlyfinewine


    TrapperChamonix wrote: »
    In a related way what is worth considering is if you putt off the green into a bunker. Sometimes you are better calling unplayable and dropping on the green (or do you place it?).

    If the original shot was played from on the green, the ball is placed. If through the green it is dropped. Simples.

    Don't mind Greebo, he gets like that sometimes!


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    #33
    Running Balance
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Running Balance


    This happened a couple of weeks back ended up in a bunker.the problem was it was not raked and ball was in a heel imprint. Very soft sand which meant the ball 6 inches below the usual level of the bunker and unplayable.
    I wanted to take an unplayable and drop in the bunker but the guy I was playing with said I couldn't as it was a hazard.
    Was he right?


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    #34
    alxmorgan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,824 ✭✭✭alxmorgan


    Running Balance wrote: »
    This happened a couple of weeks back ended up in a bunker.the problem was it was not raked and ball was in a heel imprint. Very soft sand which meant the ball 6 inches below the usual level of the bunker and unplayable.
    I wanted to take an unplayable and drop in the bunker but the guy I was playing with said I couldn't as it was a hazard.
    Was he right?

    No he was wrong.


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    #35
    ForeRight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    Running Balance wrote: »
    This happened a couple of weeks back ended up in a bunker.the problem was it was not raked and ball was in a heel imprint. Very soft sand which meant the ball 6 inches below the usual level of the bunker and unplayable.
    I wanted to take an unplayable and drop in the bunker but the guy I was playing with said I couldn't as it was a hazard.
    Was he right?



    Wrong I'm afraid


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    #36
    SnowDrifts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭SnowDrifts


    GreeBo wrote: »
    If taking a penalty and replaying was the best chance of a low score in that scenario I'd go get a bunker lesson!

    Really? He said "sometimes". You can't imagine any scenarios whereby it would be easier to re-hit the putt? I certainly can.


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    #37
    Running Balance
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Running Balance


    ForeRight wrote: »
    Wrong I'm afraid

    thanks for confirming,
    He is one of those know it all pr1cks in our society. As I wasnt sure I didn't want the hassle.


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    #38
    ForeRight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    Running Balance wrote: »
    thanks for confirming,
    He is one of those know it all pr1cks in our society. As I wasnt sure I didn't want the hassle.




    If taking an unplayable in a bunker you must take your drop in the bunker still but the fact you are in a bunker does not mean you cannot take an unplayable.


    It's always handy to have the pocket book of the R&A rules in your bag or the app on the phone. It's very easy to reference


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    #39
    Running Balance
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Running Balance


    ForeRight wrote: »
    If taking an unplayable in a bunker you must take your drop in the bunker still but the fact you are in a bunker does not mean you cannot take an unplayable.


    It's always handy to have the pocket book of the R&A rules in your bag or the app on the phone. It's very easy to reference

    yeah rules book picked up, and app too.
    Its amazing how much it messes with your head for the rest of the round.


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    #40
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,107 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Running Balance wrote: »
    This happened a couple of weeks back ended up in a bunker.the problem was it was not raked and ball was in a heel imprint. Very soft sand which meant the ball 6 inches below the usual level of the bunker and unplayable.
    I wanted to take an unplayable and drop in the bunker but the guy I was playing with said I couldn't as it was a hazard.
    Was he right?

    You can but just to be sure, it's not a free drop, it's a stroke penalty.

    If a situation arises like that again and you can verify the rule then you should/could play the hole out with 2 balls and get it clarified after the round before entering your card.


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    #41
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,823 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    You can take a drop outside the bunker under a 2 stroke penalty AFAICR

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. outdoor furniture, roof box and EDDI

    My Active Ads (adverts.ie)



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    #42
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    slave1 wrote: »
    You can take a drop outside the bunker under a 2 stroke penalty AFAICR

    Any link for that one, as I'm positive it's not correct.


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    #43
    SnowDrifts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭SnowDrifts


    slave1 wrote: »
    You can take a drop outside the bunker under a 2 stroke penalty AFAICR

    No... you might be confusing it with taking relief from an abnormal ground condition in a bunker whereby you can drop outside under penalty of 1 stroke.

    Taking an unplayable however, you must remain in the bunker (2 club lengths or back in line) or re-hit the original shot all under penalty of 1 stroke.

    http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-25/


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    #44
    Running Balance
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Running Balance


    PARlance wrote: »
    You can but just to be sure, it's not a free drop, it's a stroke penalty.

    If a situation arises like that again and you can verify the rule then you should/could play the hole out with 2 balls and get it clarified after the round before entering your card.

    yep I wanted to an unplayable penalty drop. I don't mind hitting it out of bunkers

    cheers for the tip of playing two
    balls out.

    just to check this doesnt lead to an unfair advantage in judging the putting green with the second ball if I managed to get the first ball out. (which I didn't, might be bit of a moot point).


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    #45
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,107 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Running Balance wrote: »
    yep I wanted to an unplayable penalty drop. I don't mind hitting it out of bunkers

    cheers for the tip of playing too balls out.

    just to check this doesnt lead to an unfair advantage in judging the putting green with the second ball if I managed to get the first ball out. (which I didn't, might be bit of a moot point).

    No it wouldn't be deemed practice/testing in this rare case.

    Small point but I think you also need to declare the ball you want to count even though it might be obvious.

    As in, before you play either of the balls you would need to say "this is my ball if I'm proven to be correct" about your pentaly drop ball.
    In your case (where you were correct) it would be tough luck if you not only got out, but somehow holed, the first ball.


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    #46
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,823 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    SnowDrifts wrote: »
    No... you might be confusing it with taking relief from an abnormal ground condition in a bunker whereby you can drop outside under penalty of 1 stroke.

    Taking an unplayable however, you must remain in the bunker (2 club lengths or back in line) or re-hit the original shot all under penalty of 1 stroke.

    http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-25/

    That's it, half asleep travelling back off holidays :(

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. outdoor furniture, roof box and EDDI

    My Active Ads (adverts.ie)



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    #47
    Ronney
    Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Ronney


    Strange one popped up yesterday.

    My ball crossed a lateral hazard and finishes 40 yards further on in the hazard. My ball finished just on the edge of the water, i.e. was on land but inside the red line.

    Decided to play as it lies and managed to knock it straight into the hazard. ball never left the hazard during stroke.

    Where do I Drop the Next?
    Is my point of entry 40 yards back where the first ball crossed the hazard or is the ball in play for the second shot and is this where it enters the hazard when struck?


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    #48
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    In the hazard, you no longer have the option of replaying the previous shot.
    /edit
    Corrected in subsequent post to clarify you can, under penalty.

    You can drop in the hazard and then take *another* penalty drop to get out of the hazard.

    So if your drive went into you would be playing 4 from just outside (well 2 clublengths) the hazard.

    Check out the Kevin Na video from a year or so ago when he went all lumberjack mode in the forest instead of going back to the tee.


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    #49
    Whyner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭Whyner


    GreeBo wrote: »
    In the hazard, you no longer have the option of replaying the previous shot.
    You can drop in the hazard and then take *another* penalty drop to get out of the hazard.

    So if your drive went into you would be playing 4 from just outside (well 2 clublengths) the hazard.

    Check out the Kevin Na video from a year or so ago when he went all lumberjack mode in the forest instead of going back to the tee.

    So in answering his question, can he not drop back in line from where the ball entered?

    2 club length option also?


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    #50
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Whyner wrote: »
    So in answering his question, can he not drop back in line from where the ball entered?

    2 club length option also?

    Actually 26-2 provides for replaying the last shot taken outside the hazard (under penalty of 1 shot)
    a. Ball Comes to Rest in Same or Another Water Hazard
    If a ball played from within a water hazard comes to rest in the same or another water hazard after the stroke, the player may:
    (i) proceed under Rule 26-1a. If, after dropping in the hazard, the player elects not to play the dropped ball, he may:
    (a) proceed under Rule 26-1b, or if applicable Rule 26-1c, adding the additional penalty of one stroke prescribed by the Rule and using as the reference point the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of this hazard before it came to rest in this hazard; or
    (b) add an additional penalty of one stroke and play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the last stroke from outside a water hazard was made (see Rule 20-5); or
    (ii) proceed under Rule 26-1b, or if applicable Rule 26-1c; or
    (iii) under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the last stroke from outside a water hazard was made (see Rule 20-5).


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    #51
    Tommo 76
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Tommo 76


    I've two rules questions ye might be able to help me with:

    The first one is say in a special format or 3-4 person team event,each playing their own ball and 1 to score on every hole ( say all to score on par 3's), can one of the other team mates intentionally putt his ball over behind his partners, and then putt out the hole to give his partner a read and line? Is there any rule against this? I know it's unsporting etc but rules wise is there anything against it?

    Secondly: I know if your ball is on the green and someone off the green hits it with their shot you move it back to it's original location but if both are off the green, say your ball comes up short of green from 180 yards,and another guy hits his shot which hits yours into the hole for example, or onto green, what happens? Is your ball moved back to it's original position or is it seemed you're after finishing out your ball?


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    #52
    Barnaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭Barnaboy


    One question from a match I played a while ago.... it was a singles matchplay at his home course. On the 17th hole he landed on a tee box on an adjoining hole. To my amazement he claimed that he could play the ball as it lay - local rule. I was a bit suspicious as doing so gave him a big advantage, a good lie and a bit of elevation to help get over trees.

    I said it was a bit odd and had never known a course with that rule but he was insistent. He went on to win the hole and the match.

    Anyone ever come across this local rule? Can clubs literally make up any rule they want?


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    #53
    alxmorgan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,824 ✭✭✭alxmorgan


    Barnaboy wrote: »
    One question from a match I played a while ago.... it was a singles matchplay at his home course. On the 17th hole he landed on a tee box on an adjoining hole. To my amazement he claimed that he could play the ball as it lay - local rule. I was a bit suspicious as doing so gave him a big advantage, a good lie and a bit of elevation to help get over trees.

    I said it was a bit odd and had never known a course with that rule but he was insistent. He went on to win the hole and the match.

    Anyone ever come across this local rule? Can clubs literally make up any rule they want?

    I may be wrong here but AFAIK you can indeed play from a different tee box and it doesn't need a local rule. You cannot from a green but from a tee box a local rule is actually required to stop you being allowed to do so


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    #54
    SnowDrifts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭SnowDrifts


    Barnaboy wrote: »
    One question from a match I played a while ago.... it was a singles matchplay at his home course. On the 17th hole he landed on a tee box on an adjoining hole. To my amazement he claimed that he could play the ball as it lay - local rule. I was a bit suspicious as doing so gave him a big advantage, a good lie and a bit of elevation to help get over trees.

    I said it was a bit odd and had never known a course with that rule but he was insistent. He went on to win the hole and the match.

    Anyone ever come across this local rule? Can clubs literally make up any rule they want?

    Making up rules would be taking a drop off the tee box and if you have done so in the past, you would be the one breaching the rules of golf. (Unless a local rule stated otherwise)


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    #55
    Barnaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭Barnaboy


    SnowDrifts wrote: »
    Making up rules would be taking a drop off the tee box and if you have done so in the past, you would be the one breaching the rules of golf. (Unless a local rule stated otherwise)

    Interesting! Doesn't make sense to me as it will only damage the tee boxes with unnecessary divots....


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    #56
    TrapperChamonix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭TrapperChamonix


    Tommo 76 wrote: »
    I've two rules questions ye might be able to help me with:

    The first one is say in a special format or 3-4 person team event,each playing their own ball and 1 to score on every hole ( say all to score on par 3's), can one of the other team mates intentionally putt his ball over behind his partners, and then putt out the hole to give his partner a read and line? Is there any rule against this? I know it's unsporting etc but rules wise is there anything against it?

    Secondly: I know if your ball is on the green and someone off the green hits it with their shot you move it back to it's original location but if both are off the green, say your ball comes up short of green from 180 yards,and another guy hits his shot which hits yours into the hole for example, or onto green, what happens? Is your ball moved back to it's original position or is it seemed you're after finishing out your ball?


    1st Q
    I was asked this yesterday in the context of a 4 ball. My view is that you are within your rights.


    2nd Q.
    Rule 18.5 "If a ball in play and at rest is moved by another ball in motion after a stroke, the moved ball must be replaced." Doesn't matter if it is on or off the green


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    #57
    SnowDrifts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭SnowDrifts


    Barnaboy wrote: »
    Interesting! Doesn't make sense to me as it will only damage the tee boxes with unnecessary divots....

    Well I suppose it doesn't happen very often and tee boxes by their very nature are meant to be played off. A putting green is a different story - its a 2 shot penalty if you play off a green other than the current hole in play.


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    #58
    Slicemeister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭Slicemeister


    Does a scorecard need to accompany a computer entered score to be valid? Returned a fully completed and signed card and entered it into the computer, only to receive a call a day later to say I never returned the card. DQ'ed on what would've been a cut :-(


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    #59
    alxmorgan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,824 ✭✭✭alxmorgan


    Slicemeister wrote: »
    Does a scorecard need to accompany a computer entered score to be valid? Returned a fully completed and signed card and entered it into the computer, only to receive a call a day later to say I never returned the card. DQ'ed on what would've been a cut :-(

    From what I know a dq will still be a cut, just rules you out of winning.


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    #60
    cairny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭cairny


    Slicemeister wrote: »
    Does a scorecard need to accompany a computer entered score to be valid? Returned a fully completed and signed card and entered it into the computer, only to receive a call a day later to say I never returned the card. DQ'ed on what would've been a cut :-(

    Yeah card needs to be returned, without it there's no markers signature.

    On the positive side I'm think you still get the cut regardless of DQ.


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    #61
    Slicemeister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭Slicemeister


    That's what a playing partner says, I'm still entitled to a cut??..did finish outside prizes.


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