Scottish Independence discussion area

A Dub in Glasgo · 31-08-2014 07:12PM

Kevin Bridges on the referendum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rve8WirOusQ

snubbleste · 02-09-2014 03:06PM

Dunno if this was mentioned before but I came across this data from the Yes side. Definitely would swing an undecided voter.

An interesting thought experiment is to imagine Scotland was currently independent, and the referendum would be to join the UK.
-Your main Parliament will move 600 miles away, and your MPs will be in a tiny minority & will therefore have limited ability to effect policy on your behalf
-Scotland will get a government it didn’t vote for.
-All of your oil and gas revenues will be handed over to the treasury in London.
-Even though not 1 inch of track will touch Scottish soil your taxpayers will contribute £4.2bn to the HS2 project.
-Your taxpayers will also subsidise the crossrail project in London.
-The biggest nuclear weapons facility in Western Europe will be built on the river Clyde, just 30 miles from your largest city.
-Even though you only have 8.2% of the UK’s population you will contribute 9.9% of the UK’s total tax take yet will only receive 9.3% of that tax take back to spend in Scotland (you will lose £4.4bn per year to the UK treasury)
-You will devolve all of the economic levers you have used to shape your economy directly to London and will now only have control of 7% of your economy
-Even though 79% of your MP's voted against it we will privatise your publicly owned mail service
-Even though 91% of your MPs voted against the bedroom tax in your parliament, we will impose it.
-Even though 82% of your MP's believed that a VAT increase would be detrimental to your economy, we will impose a VAT increase.
-You will join a country whose health and education services are rapidly being privatised.
-Now and again you’ll get dragged into an illegal foreign war.
-An austerity budget will be imposed from London cutting jobs and threatening vital public services even though 81% of your MP's voted against the cuts.
-The financial regulation system will be so weak and so lax that your whole economy will be brought to the brink of collapse.
-The most weak and vulnerable in society, instead of getting the protection and support they deserve will be interrogated and humiliated in an effort to get them off the meagre levels of support to which they are entitled.
Who would vote for that Union?

Fratton Fred · 02-09-2014 03:55PM

Nice post.

If ever there was a fine example of why England should seek independence, that is it.

comongethappy · 02-09-2014 04:10PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Nice post.

If ever there was a fine example of why England should seek independence, that is it.

But where would that leave the Empire they still fantasise they have!?!

Fratton Fred · 02-09-2014 04:20PM

comongethappy wrote: »

But where would that leave the Empire they still fantasise they have!?!

The Scottish empire? I don't know, ask them.

Dublin Red Devil · 03-09-2014 04:09PM

Trews:D

MakeEmLaugh · 04-09-2014 12:46AM

Economist Dominic Frisby supports Scotland becoming independent on the basis that, of the ten countries in the world with the highest gross domestic product per capital, most are relatively small states (the exception being the United States) with populations ranging from 500 thousand (Luxembourg, #2) to 9 million (United Arab Emirates).

As an independent country, Frisby reckons, Scotland's advantages are threefold

(1) Oil
(2) Regulatory flexibility
(3) Relatively small size.

A Dub in Glasgo · 04-09-2014 11:21PM

Andrew Neil being telt!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23m6CukRUGM

Scottie99 · 05-09-2014 10:08AM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Andrew Neil being telt!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23m6CukRUGM

That's another topic kicked to touch. #voteyes

Scottie99 · 05-09-2014 10:20AM

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Economist Dominic Frisby supports Scotland becoming independent on the basis that, of the ten countries in the world with the highest gross domestic product per capital, most are relatively small states (the exception being the United States) with populations ranging from 500 thousand (Luxembourg, #2) to 9 million (United Arab Emirates).

As an independent country, Frisby reckons, Scotland's advantages are threefold

(1) Oil
(2) Regulatory flexibility
(3) Relatively small size.

Regarding the "pound" - I wonder if this decision was taken because people would be fearful of loosing the pound and all Salmond wanted was to get the win. Maybe the keeping the Sterling option is only short term... Or maybe they might after the Independence win just walk away.... #justathought not saying it'll happen.

Larbre34 · 05-09-2014 10:25AM

Don't make it sound too attractive, it might be ripe for an English invasion in about 5 years!

Circle of life!

Saadyst · 05-09-2014 10:57AM

So we'll (Scotland) be the richest country in terms of GDP, we'll have a much better welfare system for the poor, sick and disadvantaged, loads more jobs, pension security, oil money, EU membership, NATO membership, no nuclear weapons, a professional and appropriate defence force, an efficient and generous NHS...

An independent Scotland will be everything for all people, basically...

Sounds amazing.. I can totally believe all of this happening..

Do yes voters anticipate any downsides at all?

Fratton Fred · 05-09-2014 11:17AM

Saadyst wrote: »

So we'll (Scotland) be the richest country in terms of GDP, we'll have a much better welfare system for the poor, sick and disadvantaged, loads more jobs, pension security, oil money, EU membership, NATO membership, no nuclear weapons, a professional and appropriate defence force, an efficient and generous NHS...

An independent Scotland will be everything for all people, basically...

Sounds amazing.. I can totally believe all of this happening..

Do yes voters anticipate any downsides at all?

All paid for by the £4bn Westminster retains to help support less well off regions of the UK, defence, border control, overseas affairs, civil service......

A Dub in Glasgo · 05-09-2014 05:17PM

2014 or 1979? hard to judge

Fratton Fred · 05-09-2014 06:34PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

2014 or 1979? hard to judge

Korea?
End of the cold war?

Give up.

Fratton Fred · 05-09-2014 06:36PM

How will a yes vote grow the ship building industry?

kingchess · 05-09-2014 10:21PM

follow the example of the UK record of ship yard closures in Scotland ??

Iwasfrozen · 05-09-2014 10:27PM

Could we bring some mod attention to certain posters who seem to be treating this thread as their personal blog?

A Dub in Glasgo · 05-09-2014 10:35PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Could we bring some mod attention to certain posters who seem to be treating this thread as their personal blog?

Go ahead, you know where the report button is

recylingbin · 05-09-2014 10:47PM

As an anti-monarchist, I hope that this is only the first step.
When you look at it, the scots have been treated appallingly by the English over the last 300 years.

A Dub in Glasgo · 05-09-2014 10:49PM

recylingbin wrote: »

As an anti-monarchist, I hope that this is only the first step.
.

So do I

Fratton Fred · 05-09-2014 10:57PM

recylingbin wrote: »

As an anti-monarchist, I hope that this is only the first step.
When you look at it, the scots have been treated appallingly by the English over the last 300 years.

How?

Scottie99 · 05-09-2014 11:12PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

How will a yes vote grow the ship building industry?

Scottish Government’s immediate proposals are to procure four Type 26 frigates for the new Scottish navy.

Westminster has hardly been good for Scottish shipbuilding see attachment

Fratton Fred · 05-09-2014 11:25PM

Scottie99 wrote: »

Scottish Government’s immediate proposals are to procure four Type 26 frigates for the new Scottish navy.

Westminster has hardly been good for Scottish shipbuilding see attachment

Westminster is planning on buying 13 I believe.

Which, if Scotland votes yes, won't be made in a foreign country.

Interesting though that the SNP want to spend €1.4bn on ships. Is this included in their €2.5bn defence budget?

How will this be paid for in the land of milk and honey?

Scottie99 · 05-09-2014 11:44PM

It seems Australia and the UK have signed an agreement last year to jointly build these type 26 frigates. Last I checked Australia is a foreign country...
As for wealth of Scotland, Scotland is in a far stronger position than rUK. Because 100% of our taxes will be coming to Edinburgh instead of via London, it will be at least be £4.5B better off.Check out GERS

Fratton Fred · 05-09-2014 11:55PM

Scottie99 wrote: »

It seems Australia and the UK have signed an agreement last year to jointly build these type 26 frigates. Last I checked Australia is a foreign country...
As for wealth of Scotland, Scotland is in a far stronger position than rUK. Because 100% of our taxes will be coming to Edinburgh instead of via London, it will be at least be £4.5B better off.Check out GERS

Jointly built doesn't mean built in Australia. A no vote means all 13 will probably be built on the Clyde. A yes vote means none will.

Yes, you'll be €4.5 bn better off. But Scotland will then spend €2.5bn in defence (it won't, but that's just a lie to try and get the thousands of Scots who are in, or dependant on the UK military to vote yes). Scotland will then have to create a border force, overseas embassies etc., it's own revenue service and all the other central services Westminster provides.

Plus, of course, several large financial institutes will be leaving and the SNP are reducing the corporation tax, so the tax income is going to drop.

If you want independence, great, but don't for one minute think you are going to be better off.

As negative as the no campaign is, the yes campaign is full of "jam tomorrow' promises.

Free prescriptions will go, free university places will go and tax will go up.

Scottie99 · 06-09-2014 07:40AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Jointly built doesn't mean built in Australia. A no vote means all 13 will probably be built on the Clyde. A yes vote means none will.

Yes, you'll be €4.5 bn better off. But Scotland will then spend €2.5bn in defence (it won't, but that's just a lie to try and get the thousands of Scots who are in, or dependant on the UK military to vote yes). Scotland will then have to create a border force, overseas embassies etc., it's own revenue service and all the other central services Westminster provides.

Plus, of course, several large financial institutes will be leaving and the SNP are reducing the corporation tax, so the tax income is going to drop.

If you want independence, great, but don't for one minute think you are going to be better off.

As negative as the no campaign is, the yes campaign is full of "jam tomorrow' promises.

Free prescriptions will go, free university places will go and tax will go up.

Firstly, Scotland is charged every year by Westminister an inflated sum on defence (see GERS). So to say we have to find defence money is nonsense because it's already calculated in our accounts. In fact, the Scottish Government says it will save money on annually on defence.
As for revenue, pension services etc. These are already in place - I know there's two massive centers, one in Dundee the other I can't remember where. Yes there will be start up cost but not the sums Westminister claim. Didn't Westminster claim from a report written by Prof Dunleavy that start up cost would cost £2.5/3billion? Only then for the Prof to come out saying WM had misconstrued his figures and the costs would be £200million.
As for Embasseys, Ireland hasn't Embasseys in every country. In Scotland case I would thinkit'll be similar...
Your all doom and gloom " Scotland's too poor too wee to stupid!!"
Scotland is a wealthy country, is a NET provider to the UK. This is the reason why WM is desperate for the Union to stay in tact!

Fratton Fred · 06-09-2014 08:10AM

Scottie99 wrote: »

Firstly, Scotland is charged every year by Westminister an inflated sum on defence (see GERS). So to say we have to find defence money is nonsense because it's already calculated in our accounts. In fact, the Scottish Government says it will save money on annually on defence.
As for revenue, pension services etc. These are already in place - I know there's two massive centers, one in Dundee the other I can't remember where. Yes there will be start up cost but not the sums Westminister claim. Didn't Westminster claim from a report written by Prof Dunleavy that start up cost would cost £2.5/3billion? Only then for the Prof to come out saying WM had misconstrued his figures and the costs would be £200million.
As for Embasseys, Ireland hasn't Embasseys in every country. In Scotland case I would it'll be similar...
Your all doom and gloom " Scotland's too poor too wee to stupid!!"
Scotland is a wealthy country, is a NET provider to the UK. This is the reason why WM is desperate for the Union to stay in tact!

Firstly, I didn't say Scotland is too poor or too stupid, so you can stop all that.

This is the problem with the yes campaign. It's all about how the poor wee Scots are being taken for a ride in the UK and independence will mean everyone will be rich. You won't, it's as simple as that.

But, of course, anyone who points that out is calling the Scots too poor and stupid.

And if you think, for one minute, the rest of the UK especially your only neighbour, will miss you, you are sadly mistaken.

Scottie99 · 06-09-2014 08:29AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Firstly, I didn't say Scotland is too poor or too stupid, so you can stop all that.

This is the problem with the yes campaign. It's all about how the poor wee Scots are being taken for a ride in the UK and independence will mean everyone will be rich. You won't, it's as simple as that.

But, of course, anyone who points that out is calling the Scots too poor and stupid.

And if you think, for one minute, the rest of the UK especially your only neighbour, will miss you, you are sadly mistaken.

No you didn't say that but you were implying that we couldn't afford NHS,education etc after indy. What we hear often from London STILL that it's English money that's propping up Scotland. Utter bull!!
Scotland will not be utopia, it'll be tough at the start. I'm sure they'll be lots in the press about this and that, mistakes made but in time we will become good. Hopefully, down south English people will look up north saying, " why aren't we getting free Uni fees, prescriptions, auld folks homes" etc Hopefully this will kick the political classes in the arse and force them to do something..

Scottie99 · 06-09-2014 08:34AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

And if you think, for one minute, the rest of the UK especially your only neighbour, will miss you, you are sadly mistaken.

Do you honestly think we give a sh1te?

Scottish Independence discussion area

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