Dublin v Donegal Sunday 31 August AI semifinal Mod Warning Posts #392 #541

Dublin are rightly strong favourites but I fancy Donegal to make a game of this. I don't think Dublin will run away with it. Donegal, while perhaps not at the level of 2012 are in much better shape than 2013 so I don't see a repeat of the Mayo mauling. Here's hoping .

Donegal recently completed a 5 day training camp n that is significant. They'll be at their best form of the year. Tactics they can win with? I thought maybe:
1. Split the ball winners into opposite wings. Murphy left with 1 in support beside him. McFadden right with McBrearty in support beside him. The square should be empty. Possibly the support with Murphy could be Rory Kavanagh or Toye. Dublin now are faced with the problem of covering those. Leave the half forward line n 14 positions empty. Position the two ball winning 2 man units between half forward n full forward wide on the wing. One kickpass away from midfield.
If a unit wins posession the other unit on opposite wing splits into two central passing options closer to goal. Runners advance from deep to attack the open middle. The unit in posession work together to win a free/score/find a runner/find one of the now central target men.
2. If Dublin win the ball on their own wing in defence. The opposite wing Donegal unit advance differently. They move as a double to pen in Dublin to that same wing where Dublin have posession meaning they come in the pitch to quickly wrap in Dublin. Donegals runners from deep (midfielders/two half forwards) aware of this tactic change their route to a defensive position where they form a solid defensive line with Donegals four attackers. Dublin should be allowed an easy option backwards as an outlet pass example back to OCarroll or Cluxton. Donegal don't chase that down but already the no. 11 who should be strong defensively forms the axis around which the defensive screen rearranges based on the next pass by Cluxton/OCarroll likely to be short to guys like Mccauley/Flynn/Devereaux. Guys who can burst past tackles. Donegal need to at this point create double ups with big men like Murphy/Toye and McFadden/McBrearty. The runners need to be able to constantly cover ground in defending against the Dublin counter attack in Dublins half.
3. The above tactic fails after 40 minutes when the runners (two half forwards/midfielders) start to flag. Dublin would start to figure out the screen n how to pass around it. Essential is getting on fresh legs to do that runner role.
4. When Dublin have attacking posession offer them up points opportunities from distance but close off the square.
5. In each half the four ball winners n the runners have to goal off of Murphy. In setting him up like that Donegal can win penalties n black cards. The focus on these four players can surely put their markers on yellow cards.
6. Man mark Paul Flynn even when he returns to defence.
7. Mark OGara with Neil McGee as he is so physical.
I think this can work as it splits Dublins most physical four defenders 60 metres apart (distance from area both units operate in wide on wings). The two less physical defenders mind the centre with Mccauley/Flynn/OSullivan. If Donegal win posession in the units they can burst past their men supporting each other with no coverage. No coverage as Dublins free defenders n midfielders must guard the open pitch from Donegals four runners (2 midfielders/2 half forwards) and also watch for the unit on opposite wing who advance towards unmarked space in the centre running planned routes not just simple straight lines to the square. As I noted leave the square empty n allow it as a simple backpass to Cluxton. That way Donegal know many of the defensive screens they have to setup n it gives them time to be perfectly formed. Goal chances can be created with Murphy advancing towards the square n then they get kickable frees/penalties/black n yellow cards. If posession is turned over a good well organised screen can stop Dublin running the ball out from the back.
I think these two man units can win plenty ball as they'll have a height n size advantage on the Dublin backs.
This is all I can think of to beat current Dublin team. It's simply a high line which is nothing new but it uses the sideline to limit Dublins counter attack given that the units are close to the sideline. Dublins extra men defensively are not able to mark anyone effectively until they can pickup the run of the advancing six players. If Dublin mark a Donegal wing unit 3 on 2 or mark both units 3 on 2 then they're left totally open in the middle of the pitch. Hence the reason the units should play very wide to prevent coverage of a unit and the middle of pitch at the same time. Murphys unit you'd actually play a little nearer to the endline to increase the gap in Dublins defence n move him closer to goal.

Donegal will hold out a frustrated Dublin for a long time but will never be able to build any sort of lead themselves.
Eventually Dublin will break them down and win it by 5 or 6, no massacre though.

Would love to see Donegal win it though.

Would be class seeing them stuffed by Mayo or Kerry in the final.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Donegal will hold out a frustrated Dublin for a long time but will never be able to build any sort of lead themselves.
Eventually Dublin will break them down and win it by 5 or 6, no massacre though.

Would love to see Donegal win it though.

Would be class seeing them stuffed by Mayo or Kerry in the final.

So if Donegal beat Dublin they would get stuffed by Mayo or Kerry. That's an interesting form line.
The begrudgery towards Donegal from some posters is pathetic. It shows a complete lack of respect for what this team has achieved. Ironically it tends to come mainly from posters whose county's have not won a title in their lifetime.

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Ah Mayo man, why the bitterness?

Shock horror a mayo man is bitter. They got away with that kerry game by 3 inches. Either way both Donegal and Dublin are well equipped to beat mayo in the final.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Would love to see Donegal win it though.

Would be class seeing them stuffed by Mayo or Kerry in the final.

That's pretty sad from a Mayo man. What would be class would be to acknowledge a fine team.

K-9 wrote: »

If Donegal got through it would make an intriguing final, I wouldn't know how it would go against either team.

We would get whalloped by Mayo imo.

That is the nightmare obviously. Beat the dubs and lose to Mayo in a final.

Cant wait! On a stag with a load of Donegal lads this weekend, then big rush back on Sunday to make The Big Tree for a few beforehand.
My liver is screaming at me already

Pound for pound, man for man Dublin win this by 30 points. But it wont be that easy.

Donegal being Donegal they'll be negative for sure and play the game to contain and limit the opposition so it'll be much tighter than 30 points - fancy us to win by 10 or so. I'd love for Donegal to come out and play but that'd be folly.
Hopefully McFadden plays (i know some Donegal lads want him dropped) as he's awful and dont rate McBrearty too much either so cant see where Donegal scores come from unless we gave away needless fouls - Murphy is accurate.
Probably be an awful game to watch for neutrals (lolz) but i wont care once we win.

Might be our hardest game of year too which will be great going into the final.

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

That's pretty sad from a Mayo man. What would be class would be to acknowledge a fine team.

I'm not bitter
I just don't like their fans, their manger or their style

But I will give them credit for 2012, and I have said that before here, they played far more expansive football than in 2011 or since.

Their fans go around like they are the greatest thing since the Kerry golden years, they need to be reminded that they have less All Ireland than Mayo, Tipp, Wexford, Kildare etc etc.

Their manager has and unbelievable ego, and has already alienated at least two fine footballers, and god only know how many younger promising guys who we will never find out about because they did not do things Jimmy's way.
He has never missed an importunity to try and play pathetic mind games in the media, and if it's not him that's doing it's one of his lackeys.

And their style of football is pure anti-football. They will never thrill the neutral the way Mayo and Kerry did last week.
The 2011 SF should be used as a CIA torture technique.

As I said I would like them to win so that Mayo or Kerry could beat seven colours of s**te out of them on the biggest stage, but if I am watching it on Sunday I will be cheering Dublin all the way, cos the sight of them just sickens me.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm not bitter
I just don't like their fans, their manger or their style

But I will give them credit for 2012, and I have said that before here, they played far more expansive football than in 2011 or since.

Their fans go around like they are the greatest thing since the Kerry golden years, they need to be reminded that they have less All Ireland than Mayo, Tipp, Wexford, Kildare etc etc.

Their manager has and unbelievable ego, and has already alienated at least two fine footballers, and god only know how many younger promising guys who we will never find out about because they did not do things Jimmy's way.
He has never missed an importunity to try and play pathetic mind games in the media, and if it's not him that's doing it's one of his lackeys.

And their style of football is pure anti-football. They will never thrill the neutral the way Mayo and Kerry did last week.
The 2011 SF should be used as a CIA torture technique.

As I said I would like them to win so that Mayo or Kerry could beat seven colours of s**te out of them on the biggest stage, but if I am watching it on Sunday I will be cheering Dublin all the way, cos the sight of them just sickens me.

You don't sound bitter anyway.. ..

Their fans go around like Kerry etc.

How many do you know? That is a ridiculous generalisation. Most in Donegal think we'll get easily beaten this weekend. And for most games this year. Hardly brash arrogant cocky fans now.

Jim has alienated fine footballers? Mark McHugh left on his own accord and the door is open. Hardly alienating him is it. Who is the other? Cass? Cass broke the rules the squad had agreed to but again he was asked back too and he declined. Hardly alienating someone is it.

And as for his ego, this is more nonsense. He is incredibly down to earth and very humble given his undoubted brilliance That is my position from actually knowing him. You perceive things through the media in etc which suit your position.

And as for mind games and all this carryon your own Horan (+baseball cap) is hardly an angel is he. And I could go on about James Horan the most sinfully boring manager in the game and how it's no surprise Mayo continue to be specialists in failure under him but I won't because I don't know him.

You talk about young players, again more bollocks. Ryan Mchugh, McNiallias, Hugh McFadden, Jigger. 5 new young players now who are big parts of the squad. Jim has also been around with the minors at various stages this summer too helping them but again you wouldn't know that because you don't know a single thing about Donegal football.

And you wouldn't care less about any style of football if you finally managed to win an all Ireland instead of fluffing your lines and being laughed at by the rest of the country. We played expansive attacking football for long enough and got nowhere with it.

Tl:Dr : Stop talking about things regarding Donegal football that you know nothing about. Many thanks.

PS. best of luck on Saturday. It will be a brilliant occasion in the gaelic grounds.

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

You don't sound bitter anyway.. ..

Their fans go around like Kerry etc.

How many do you know? That is a ridiculous generalisation. Most in Donegal think we'll get easily beaten this weekend. And for most games this year. Hardly brash arrogant cocky fans now.

Jim has alienated fine footballers? Mark McHugh left on his own accord and the door is open. Hardly alienating him is it. Who is the other? Cass? Cass broke the rules the squad had agreed to but again he was asked back too and he declined. Hardly alienating someone is it.

And as for his ego, this is more nonsense. He is incredibly down to earth and very humble given his undoubted brilliance That is my position from actually knowing him. You perceive things through the media in etc which suit your position.

And as for mind games and all this carryon your own Horan (+baseball cap) is hardly an angel is he. And I could go on about James Horan the most sinfully boring manager in the game and how it's no surprise Mayo continue to be specialists in failure under him but I won't because I don't know him.

You talk about young players, again more bollocks. Ryan Mchugh, McNiallias, Hugh McFadden, Jigger. 5 new young players now who are big parts of the squad. Jim has also been around with the minors at various stages this summer too helping them but again you wouldn't know that because you don't know a single thing about Donegal football.

And you wouldn't care less about any style of football if you finally managed to win an all Ireland instead of fluffing your lines and being laughed at by the rest of the country. We played expansive attacking football for long enough and got nowhere with it.

Tl:Dr : Stop talking about things regarding Donegal football that you know nothing about. Many thanks.

PS. best of luck on Saturday. It will be a brilliant occasion in the gaelic grounds.

The fact that you refer to his so called "undoubted brilliance" just shows how much you have been brainwashed by this guy.

And I don't know what the fact that he "has been around the minors" had to do with anything.
My point is that he will probably alienate many of them cos it's "Jimmy's way or the high way"

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The fact that you refer to his so called "undoubted brilliance" just shows how much you have been brainwashed by this guy.

And I don't know what the fact that he "has been around the minors" had to do with anything.
My point is that he will probably alienate many of them cos it's "Jimmy's way or the high way"

3 Ulster Championships and an All Ireland in 4 years with a team that were more stag party than football team. Undoubtedly brilliant. There is no question of that.

The point in the minors is that he is committed to ensuring there is a structure in place in the county having minors a route through to seniors. His professional career is much of the same so again your talking nonsense about inferring that young players possibly either not getting a chance/miss out or getting alienated. You know like he has alienated.......? Oh that's right. Nobody.

And as for his way or the highway. Show me a manager that isn't like that? They are in charge, of course things are done their way. It's the same in club football ffs. You think Horan, Gavin, Mickey Harte, Gilroy a few years ago aren't like that?

But no Jim is a strict dictator and disciplinarian whereas in sure Horan facilitates a utopia of free choice and love in training and all the players decide together where they should play and how they should play while advocating for social equality and love, man.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm not bitter
I just don't like their fans, their manger or their style

But I will give them credit for 2012, and I have said that before here, they played far more expansive football than in 2011 or since.

Their fans go around like they are the greatest thing since the Kerry golden years, they need to be reminded that they have less All Ireland than Mayo, Tipp, Wexford, Kildare etc etc.

Their manager has and unbelievable ego, and has already alienated at least two fine footballers, and god only know how many younger promising guys who we will never find out about because they did not do things Jimmy's way.
He has never missed an importunity to try and play pathetic mind games in the media, and if it's not him that's doing it's one of his lackeys.

And their style of football is pure anti-football. They will never thrill the neutral the way Mayo and Kerry did last week.
The 2011 SF should be used as a CIA torture technique.

As I said I would like them to win so that Mayo or Kerry could beat seven colours of s**te out of them on the biggest stage, but if I am watching it on Sunday I will be cheering Dublin all the way, cos the sight of them just sickens me.

Jeez Tod you're one of my favorite posters on the GAA forum, I've never seen you allow emotion creep into a post so much.

I remember being on Hill 16 for the 2012 final and the behavior of a group of Mayo fans beside me before the game wasn't anything to be proud of - but I wont be labeling all Mayo supporters with the same reputation.

The strange thing about the style of play is that if you brought someone from 20 years ago into the present day they'd also be asking questions of Dublin, Mayo and Kerry too. Constant Hand passing and multi-man tackling are now such a common part of everyone's game that no one talks about it anymore. Donegal have surely taken it to a further extreme and therefore take most of the flak, 5 years ago it was Tyrone, now its Donegal - who's next?

Jimmy wont be apologizing to anyone - 3 years since that semi final people need to get over it.

THAT semi final in 2011; intriguing, enthralling ?, well yeah to the same degree as you rubberneck a car crash. Mickey Whelan spoke of the Dubs preparation for the game, playing countless practice matches with a packed defence - even 18 v 15 aside. Jim Mc confiscated mobile phones as the war room readied battle stations. What unfolded was outside the scope of anything that Dublin had reasonably prepared for - frustration was evident both on the field and in the stands. I thought that particular atmosphere served as an advantage to Donegal.

Fast forward 3 years and that intervening period has served as a great learning period to others on the facets of the defensive game. Flynner now speaks the mantra of "Patience" as the 1st step in approaching the match. Past30Now alluded to the post I had regarding the Dublin planning for this defensive system. It has been 8 months of refinement - but this is not being dismissive of games upto the Monaghan match either as the style of play was suited to all eventualities. It's not rocket science, moving the ball quickly with committed numbers, isolating 2v1 situations with runners off the shoulder and the ball being moved quickly thru the hands. Dublins advantage is they can do it quicker than most (with the possible exception of Kerry), but tellingly they can do it for longer than everybody.

Dublin have replicated the Donegal defensive system as a well coached philosophy in AvB practice games - but to my mind there's no way Donegal can mirror the Dublin way of playing.

Things have gone very quiet on the Dublin front - I'd spoken with a few of the players prior to the Monaghan game and might have picked up a snippet or 2 of info elsewhere, but have heard nothing. But make no mistake about it, this is the match they've had in their crosshairs all season