9yo accidentally kills gun instructor

My name is URL · 27-08-2014 08:00PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

My dad had guns when I was a kid in Galway. I don't know how young I was when I first fired one but I know I pestered him for a very long time before he let me.

I bet he didn't take you to a range to fire a fully automatic weapon at 9 years of age anyway.

I realize people must think its weird that a kid would pester their parents to be allowed to fire a gun. But I did. And a lot of other do too.

I don't think it's weird for a kid to pester their parents into letting them do that or anything else. I think it's weird for a parent to give in to such demands from a 9 year old. I have nephews that pester me to let them play GTA V when I babysit, but I don't give in. They pester their parents for all sorts of other crap too.. and they don't give in either.

If the idiot "instructor" hadn't switched it full auto, and if he stood BEHIND the gun and held it for the kid, he would still be alive.

And a 9 year old girl would still be shooting an Uzi because her idiot parents either gave in to her demands, or came up with the idea themselves.

I'm guessing the latter on that too. Mad American gun-nut parents instilling pro-gun ideologies in their kids is nothing new, and it's not the first time that such conditioning has led to death.. nor will it be the last time.

GerB40 · 27-08-2014 08:27PM

nc19 wrote: »

A friend of mine had his 11yr old daughter shoot at a range while on holiday. Perfectly safe if done correctly.

She fired a 9mm which was loaded with 1 bullet at a time

Americans of all ages, race etc are all idiots.

Everyone who makes generalisations are fools. Every single one...

Lapin · 27-08-2014 09:00PM

Moat_Cailin wrote: »

Is the full clip available anywhere ?

Yes.

El Weirdo · 27-08-2014 09:04PM

Moat_Cailin wrote: »

Is the full clip available anywhere ?

Yeah, in yer man's face apparently.

Tarzana · 27-08-2014 09:07PM

MadsL hasn't posted in this thread. Interesting.

InTheTrees · 27-08-2014 09:26PM

My name is URL wrote: »

I bet he didn't take you to a range to fire a fully automatic weapon at 9 years of age anyway.

If they'd been available he would.

Its down to the range employee who screwed up and paid dearly for it.

Manic Moran · 27-08-2014 10:03PM

bumper234 wrote: »

The instructors stupidity killed him.

This is as far as it need go.

The age thing is a red herring, there's no reason children shouldn't be able to shoot at a young age. Ask the Swiss, where 13-year-olds fire the Army's service rifle in state-sponsored competition. They are perfectly capable of understanding the basic safety procedures if someone tells them what they are and enforces them.

And, like any other sport these days, if you want to be the best, you need to start early. Very early. Here's a 90-second video of a semi-professional shooter, a 13-year old (at the time) girl by the name of Katelyn Francis doing a 3-gun stage. (assault rifle, shotgun, pistol)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKw42qk6lwM

You do not get to be that good without a couple of years of practice.

In the case of the range instructor's death, he made several errors. Those errors should not be extrapolated into more than they were.

Manic Moran · 27-08-2014 10:09PM

cerastes wrote: »

I thought fully automatic weapons were banned in most states, if not all?
Maybe Nevada or Arizona? and could only be gotten by specific rnage operators or gun dealers

No, they're legal in most States. The main catch is that they're at least $10,000 apiece due to artificial scarcity caused by legislation back in the 1980s. There are additional requirements from the ATF before you can own one, but if you have the time to jump through the hoops, it's doable.

Aren't legal handguns banned in Chicago? and the first two seem like criminal events, no suspects in custody. bit mad all the same.

Sortof. Illinois' complete ban on concealed weapons was struck down by the 7th Circuit last year, but the chances of recent killings being by CCW holders is pretty low. Even with the ban in place, Chicago has always been one of the most violent cities in the country.

Lapin · 27-08-2014 11:02PM

Newsnight BBC 2 Now.

Fight !

My name is URL · 27-08-2014 11:10PM

Lapin wrote: »

Newsnight BBC 2 Now.

Fight !

A bunch of retards arguing over whether or not 9 year olds should be allowed to use SMGs while other 9 year olds are getting blown up because their dads are using SMGs

What a time to be alive

castletownman · 27-08-2014 11:23PM

It's okay though. A similar incident shouldn't occur again. They've raised the minimum age one is allowed to use the range to 12.

Witcher · 27-08-2014 11:24PM

castletownman wrote: »

It's okay though. A similar incident shouldn't occur again. They've raised the minimum age one is allowed to use the range to 12.

You can use a gun here at 14 so not much difference.

moc moc a moc · 27-08-2014 11:43PM

Tarzana wrote: »

MadsL hasn't posted in this thread. Interesting.

You mean Captain America.

MadsL · 28-08-2014 12:21AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

In the case of the range instructor's death, he made several errors. Those errors should not be extrapolated into more than they were.

Well said. One of those errors may actually be the design of the Uzi which may have meant that the switch into full auto may have been made by the girl herself and not the instructor.

Not the first fatality with a kid and an Uzi mind..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jurors-uzi-trial-brace-graphic-replay/story?id=12556398

But analysing real world information y'know, not nearly as much fun as taking the piss out of Americans and jumping to conclusions.

Egginacup · 28-08-2014 12:42AM

MadsL wrote: »

Well said. One of those errors may actually be the design of the Uzi which may have meant that the switch into full auto may have been made by the girl herself and not the instructor.

Not the first fatality with a kid and an Uzi mind..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jurors-uzi-trial-brace-graphic-replay/story?id=12556398

But analysing real world information y'know, not nearly as much fun as taking the piss out of Americans and jumping to conclusions.

Next step....giving a 18 month old a tennis ball and gleefully clapping when he or she throws it. How cute.
Now take that little bundle of joy and give him a grenade.
"Go on, Joey, Go Joey! Go Joey"

Child drops grenade.....three people lose a limb and one is killed.
Little Joey is blinded in one eye.

But ..... there must have been something wrong with the grenade or something. The guy who designed the petard didn't do his job in making bombs safe for toddlers.

:pac:

wazky · 28-08-2014 12:45AM

MadsL wrote: »

Well said. One of those errors may actually be the design of the Uzi which may have meant that the switch into full auto may have been made by the girl herself and not the instructor.

Not the first fatality with a kid and an Uzi mind..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jurors-uzi-trial-brace-graphic-replay/story?id=12556398

But analysing real world information y'know, not nearly as much fun as taking the piss out of Americans and jumping to conclusions.

Is it right that a 9 year old is being taught how to use a fully automatic weapon?, what possible use could she have for it?, hunting? Self defence maybe?

MadsL · 28-08-2014 12:51AM

wazky wrote: »

Is it right that a 9 year old is being taught how to use a fully automatic weapon?, what possible use could she have for it?, hunting? Self defence maybe?

Recreation is a legitimate use under most States constitutions.

Egginacup · 28-08-2014 12:53AM

MadsL wrote: »

Well said. One of those errors may actually be the design of the Uzi which may have meant that the switch into full auto may have been made by the girl herself and not the instructor.

Not the first fatality with a kid and an Uzi mind..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jurors-uzi-trial-brace-graphic-replay/story?id=12556398

But analysing real world information y'know, not nearly as much fun as taking the piss out of Americans and jumping to conclusions.

MadsL, come ON!!

You can bang on all you want about how cops should have gunships to effect traffic stops, or how a 10 year old should learn how to handle a Bushmaster rifle (forget about learning another language or becoming proficient in algebra). You can blag everyone out with glib figures about how some riot was halted and put to rest because the knuckleheads had an MRAP.

A tiny little girl was:

A. On a firing range
B. Why?
C. Being given a gun by some cretin
D. Her parents were where?
E. She has to wait 12 years to have a glass of wine but this thundering moron who thinks it's fine to allow her to fire a gun at the tender age of 9.

....He's now dead......and I can't say he is a huge loss to people who like to think.

wazky · 28-08-2014 12:53AM

MadsL wrote: »

Recreation is a legitimate use under most States constitutions.

What do you think though?, should a 9 year old be permitted to use a fully automatic weapon?

MadsL · 28-08-2014 01:02AM

Egginacup wrote: »

MadsL, come ON!!

You can bang on all you want about how cops should have gunships to effect traffic stops, or how a 10 year old should learn how to handle a Bushmaster rifle (forget about learning another language or becoming proficient in algebra). You can blag everyone out with glib figures about how some riot was halted and put to rest because the knuckleheads had an MRAP.

If you are going to misrepresent my views in such a twisted and inaccurate manner I'm not going to debate with you. I have never said cops should have gunships, nor that anyone should neglect a language in favour of practice at the range, nor have I ever made a comment about MRAPs.

If you want a reply, please read my posts and what they say, not what you think I would say. That is common courtesy, y'know, for people who think.

moc moc a moc · 28-08-2014 01:02AM

MadsL wrote: »

I've actually been to this place, great burgers.

Call me picky, but I prefer mine without a side of brain matter

MadsL · 28-08-2014 01:05AM

wazky wrote: »

What do you think though?, should a 9 year old be permitted to use a fully automatic weapon?

Depends on the ability of the child. I ensured my own teenager had at least a full handgun safety course lasting 2 hours before letting her handle a .22 under instructor supervision. She's fired a 9mm pistol under my supervision, and I'd let her handle a rifle. Full auto? Probably. If she was familar enough with it in semi mode.

That said these places are simple tourist traps, they are not trying to teach anything about firearms, they are simply out to make cash.

MadsL · 28-08-2014 01:07AM

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Call me picky, but I prefer mine without a side of brain matter

The diner is quite a distance from the range. Just in case you are passing.

Lapin · 28-08-2014 01:13AM

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Call me picky, but I prefer mine without a side of brain matter

I'd steer clear of Abrakebabra then too.

InTheTrees · 28-08-2014 01:17AM

wazky wrote: »

Is it right that a 9 year old is being taught how to use a fully automatic weapon?, what possible use could she have for it?, hunting? Self defence maybe?

Its a tourist thing. Las Vegas has many of these places. Go shoot a real machine gun and have your picture taken.

She wasn't being formally instructed she was being given a go at it. I assume her parent were close by and the main reason they were there.

Just like a kid taking the wheel of a car.

But in this case the idiot who was suposed to be taking care of her apparently didn't know what he was doing.

Egginacup · 28-08-2014 01:19AM

wazky wrote: »

Is it right that a 9 year old is being taught how to use a fully automatic weapon?, what possible use could she have for it?, hunting? Self defence maybe?

That's an excellent question.

But I have a question of my own and I think it might be relevant.

If these people deem it appropriate to teach a child to fire a gun in the name of defense then why aren't these people also teaching these kids how to slam a knife into somebody's windpipe or how to slash someone's carotid artery with a Stanley Blade?

Why are they not teaching a 9 year old how to rupture someone's femural artery so they bleed to death in moments?

Or how to at least cripple someone with a knife thrust to the solar plexus?

If protecting yourself is the premise of the **** giving their kids shotguns or Glocks for Christmas then why don't they tach them how to kill without a gun also?

Royal Irish · 28-08-2014 01:21AM

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Why does a 9 year old need to know how to shoot an Uzi? In what possible situation is that going to be useful.

Zombie apocalypse.

evo2000 · 28-08-2014 01:21AM

9 years old and got her first kill... she ll be well able to defend when al queda and ISIS invade america via fishing boats and rafts.... what a stupid situation i feel bad for the girl more than the instructor he shoulda had more sense than to give a child a full auto weapon...

wazky · 28-08-2014 01:22AM

InTheTrees wrote: »

But in this case the idiot who was suposed to be taking care of her apparently didn't know what he was doing.

There's a couple of idiots in this really, the instructor and the parents.

InTheTrees · 28-08-2014 01:25AM

wazky wrote: »

What do you think though?, should a 9 year old be permitted to use a fully automatic weapon?

With proper supervision if they want to take a few shots there's nothing wrong with it.

This was a tourist place. Ive been to a few just like it and there's lines of poeple waiting their turn to shoot a real machine gun and have a picture taken to impress their facebook friends.

Making it sound like some sinister paramilitary training is way off the mark.

9yo accidentally kills gun instructor

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