9yo accidentally kills gun instructor

Andrewf20 · 27-08-2014 01:01PM

I know of an American who had been taught about guns from 7 years old, including have their own gun at this age (obviously, it was kept under lock and key and strict supervision). Its a very different culture for sure to here.

Gael23 · 27-08-2014 01:04PM

mike_ie wrote: »

How does that work? If the law states that it's perfectly legal for a 9 year old to shoot an Uzi under an instructor's supervision at a gun range, then it's the law that's wrong, not the parents...

Questionable parenting skills, perhaps? But charges? Of what?

Charges of knowingly putting a child in danger if there is such a thing.

foxy farmer · 27-08-2014 01:10PM

Remmy wrote: »

How exactly was she strong enough to control the muzzle climb on that? What was he thinking

He sealed his fate by letting her fire the weapon in full automatic mode. She would not have anticipated the continous recoil or how to counteract it. I have a single barrel shotgun that has powerful recoil and leaves its mark when I use it. Fire more than 3 rounds and I'll have a sore and bruised shoulder. A 9 year old would be flat on their back if they fired it.

Irish Guitarist · 27-08-2014 01:19PM

The gun must have been illegal. There's no way a legally purchased gun would hurt an innocent American. The girl was probably an illegal immigrant who hated freedom too.

Ghost Buster · 27-08-2014 01:19PM

Andrewf20 wrote: »

I know of an American who had been taught about guns from 7 years old, including have their own gun at this age (obviously, it was kept under lock and key and strict supervision). Its a very different culture for sure to here.[/QUOTE]

Indeed. As the body count would suggest.

Wibbs · 27-08-2014 01:27PM

On the other hand if you find yourself growing up in a culture where guns are a part of life it makes damn good sense to get kids trained early in gun safety and the safe handling of firearms. That I don't have an objection to. Kid starts off with a BB gun or whatever and migrates to a 22 LR all under adult supervision. However in what world does a nine year old need to know how to shoot a fully automatic weapon? Sure if she was 16 and just wanted to fire one and was physically capable of doing so then fine as an experience, but otherwise WTF? Couldn't tell if it had the shoulder stock deployed as that would really help stabilise it, holding it like a pistol would be a real hard ask for a 9 year old. The trauma that poor mite must be suffering from. Jesus.

kylith · 27-08-2014 01:29PM

Someone on another forum just made a very good point: what the reaction be in the US if this death had occurred in Afghanistan? OMG Muslims are training 9 year olds to use Uzis!

Tokyo · 27-08-2014 01:31PM

ryanf1 wrote: »

Charges of knowingly putting a child in danger if there is such a thing.

Don't you mean putting an instructor in danger?

Setting aside the nuts gun laws for a second - if the father had taken his kid out in the back yard, handed her an Uzi (or any gun) and told her to go her hardest, I'd agree with you. However he didn't - he took her to a firing range, put her in the hands of a qualified instructor in an enclosed environment. Whatever my personal feelings on that are, as long as the law says that this is perfectly acceptable behaviour, then the law is at fault.

Sad to say it's not the first time something like this has happened either. In 2011, an 8 year old shot himself in the face at a gun show, even though (a) the person at the gun show suggested to the father that his son may be safer using a single shot weapon, and (b) the police were at the expo and were aware that children were shooting the weapons.

GreeBo · 27-08-2014 01:31PM

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Why does a 9 year old need to know how to shoot an Uzi? In what possible situation is that going to be useful.

Zombies.

Wibbs · 27-08-2014 01:36PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Zombies.

Nah, as mike_ie pointed out earlier Uzi's tend to jam and eat through the ammo in seconds and aren't particularly accurate. They were a fantastic innovation by the Israelis back in the day when they were in need of a cheap and relatively easy to make small arm that could throw out a lot of easily available 9mm lead, but come the zombies sod that. Pump action shotgun with an extended magazine is your only man. Good general survival weapon too, the only real disadvantage being the weight and size of the ammo.

Standman · 27-08-2014 01:39PM

A tragic accident facilitated by an unprofessional & careless instructor.

Let's face it though, the big danger from guns in America does not stem from people in shooting ranges attempting to learn how to use a firearm safely, it's from nutcases shooting people in the streets daily. Two people shot dead and ten wounded on Monday in Chicago alone. Search "Baltimore shooting" in Google and see how shootings and murders are nearly a daily occurrence.

"9 Year Old Shoots Man" makes a better headline though I suppose.

kylith · 27-08-2014 01:41PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Nah, as mike_ie pointed out earlier Uzi's tend to jam and eat through the ammo in seconds and aren't particularly accurate. They were a fantastic innovation by the Israelis back in the day when they were in need of a cheap and relatively easy to make small arm that could throw out a lot of easily available 9mm lead, but come the zombies sod that. Pump action shotgun with an extended magazine is your only man. Good general survival weapon too, the only real disadvantage being the weight and size of the ammo.

Anyone using a gun in a Zombocalypse, especially a shotgun, is an idiot. They're so noisy that you'll have every undead for 5 miles homing in on you. Icepicks, axes, and arrows, that's the way to go. Personally I'd recommend a longbow as opposed to a crossbow. Crossbows have more power, but longbows reload a hell of a lot quicker.

Bluefoam · 27-08-2014 01:41PM

Standman wrote: »

A tragic accident facilitated by an unprofessional & careless instructor.

Let's face it though, the big danger from guns in America does not stem from people in shooting ranges attempting to learn how to use a firearm safely, it's from nutcases shooting people in the streets daily. Two people shot dead and ten wounded on Monday in Chicago alone. Search "Baltimore shooting" in Google and see how shootings and murders are nearly a daily occurrence.

"9 Year Old Shoots Man" makes a better headline though I suppose.

Are you trying to suggest that the people in the shooting ranges and the people in the street are not the same people...? What about the instances of people going on rampages in the shooting ranges?

TBH its all ****ing stupid

suicide_circus · 27-08-2014 01:48PM

taken from 'The Decline'

Father, what have I done?
I took that .22
A gift to me from you
To bed with me each night
Kept it clean
Polished it well
Cherished every cartridge, every shell

Down, by the creek, under brush, under dirt
There's a carcass of my second kill
Down, by the park, under stone, under pine
There's a carcass of my brother William

Brother where, have you gone to?
I swear, I never thought I could
I see so many times
They told me to shoot straight
Don't pull the trigger, squeeze
That will insure a kill
A kill is what you want
A kill is why we breed

cerastes · 27-08-2014 02:09PM

kylith wrote: »

My brother once let me have a go of his shotgun. Immediately that he handed it to me I was overwhelmed by the realisation of how easy it would be to kill him. All I had to do was have my finger in the wrong place, or stumble and fall, and my brother would be wiped off the face of the planet. I took a couple of shots and gave it back to him, but the feeling has never left me. Though I'd use a gun again (he promised to take me to get some rabbits), it was terrifying, to be honest.

I'll take it you realised the capacity of something you were holding in your hands that can cause a fatality and not a sense of rising power.
You shouldnt be carrying/moving around with a loaded firearm or just going around with your finger on the trigger.

It just goes to show, most people here arent familiar or capable with using firearms, on the other hand familiarity breeds contempt too.
That "instructor" should never have let that child hold that firearm on her own, or the parents should never let her be there.
If I was ever over there again, I wouldnt let my child near a shooting range, I wouldnt forgive myself if something happened, though Id go myself if the chance came up, Ive seen people be careless with firearms, even pellet guns and airsoft types.

Standman wrote: »

A tragic accident facilitated by an unprofessional & careless instructor.

Let's face it though, the big danger from guns in America does not stem from people in shooting ranges attempting to learn how to use a firearm safely, it's from nutcases shooting people in the streets daily. Two people shot dead and ten wounded on Monday in Chicago alone. Search "Baltimore shooting" in Google and see how shootings and murders are nearly a daily occurrence.

"9 Year Old Shoots Man" makes a better headline though I suppose.

I thought fully automatic weapons were banned in most states, if not all?
Maybe Nevada or Arizona? and could only be gotten by specific rnage operators or gun dealers

Aren't legal handguns banned in Chicago? and the first two seem like criminal events, no suspects in custody. bit mad all the same.

Tokyo · 27-08-2014 02:14PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Pump action shotgun with an extended magazine is your only man. Good general survival weapon too, the only real disadvantage being the weight and size of the ammo.

You're obviously not familiar with the AR15 and chainsaw combo then. When you absolutely, positively got to kill every mother****er in the room, accept no substitutes.

ronnie3585 · 27-08-2014 02:15PM

Ah America, where it's deemed irresponsible (and illegal) to let anyone under 21 have a beer, but it's okay for 9 year olds to fire fully automatic machine guns.

Standman · 27-08-2014 02:21PM

Bluefoam wrote: »

Are you trying to suggest that the people in the shooting ranges and the people in the street are not the same people...? What about the instances of people going on rampages in the shooting ranges?

TBH its all ****ing stupid

I'm suggesting that this is an incident that makes good headlines but doesn't do much to illuminate the major issues America has with gun violence.

The total number of gun deaths in America in 2011 was 32,163, of these 851 were unintentional gun deaths. The vast majority of gun deaths were the result of suicide (19,766) and homicide (11,101) respectively. Source.

While everything should be done to avoid horrible and tragic accidents like this, the fact is that unintentional gun deaths are not even close to being the most alarming issue.

It just feels strange to me that while the daily carnage on the streets & wider America is generally ignored outside of local news, this story about an accident makes international headlines.

Bluefoam · 27-08-2014 02:32PM

Standman wrote: »

I'm suggesting that this is an incident that makes good headlines but doesn't do much to illuminate the major issues America has with gun violence.

The total number of gun deaths in America in 2011 was 32,163, of these 851 were unintentional gun deaths. The vast majority of gun deaths were the result of suicide (19,766) and homicide (11,101) respectively. Source.

While everything should be done to avoid horrible and tragic accidents like this, the fact is that unintentional gun deaths are not even close to being the most alarming issue.

It just feels strange to me that while the daily carnage on the streets & wider America is generally ignored outside of local news, this story about an accident makes international headlines.

I suggest you just add the accidental gun deaths and the purposeful gun deaths to get a usable figure...

My original point was that the people who commit homicide in the US (by gun) have mostly likely practised at a gun range/other at some stage...

dan1895 · 27-08-2014 02:37PM

Standman wrote: »

I'm suggesting that this is an incident that makes good headlines but doesn't do much to illuminate the major issues America has with gun violence.

The total number of gun deaths in America in 2011 was 32,163, of these 851 were unintentional gun deaths. The vast majority of gun deaths were the result of suicide (19,766) and homicide (11,101) respectively. Source.

While everything should be done to avoid horrible and tragic accidents like this, the fact is that unintentional gun deaths are not even close to being the most alarming issue.

It just feels strange to me that while the daily carnage on the streets & wider America is generally ignored outside of local news, this story about an accident makes international headlines.

I think this story highlights the bizarre attitude and relationships a lot of Americans have with guns. In what other country would bringing a 9 year old to a place like this be seen as ok?

Mal-Adjusted · 27-08-2014 02:44PM

Standman wrote: »

It just feels strange to me that while the daily carnage on the streets & wider America is generally ignored outside of local news, this story about an accident makes international headlines.

It's only in the news because it involves a 9 year old child. If it had been a forty year old man who accidentally shot the instructor, it wouldn't have been reported as heavily as it has.

27-08-2014 02:45PM

dan1895 wrote: »

I think this story highlights the bizarre attitude and relationships a lot of Americans have with guns. In what other country would bringing a 9 year old to a place like this be seen as ok?

Switzerland?

Wossack · 27-08-2014 02:49PM

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

It's only in the news because it involves a 9 year old child. If it had been a forty year old man who accidentally shot the instructor, it wouldn't have been reported as heavily as it has.

yea, its almost like the whole idea of it being a 9 y/o is unusual or something

Mal-Adjusted · 27-08-2014 02:53PM

Wossack wrote: »

yea, its almost like the whole idea of it being a 9 y/o is unusual or something

I guess that internationally at least, as tragic the loss of life is, that's the real story. it's the fact that it's seen as normal thing for a small child to be doing.

o1s1n · 27-08-2014 03:06PM

kylith wrote: »

Anyone using a gun in a Zombocalypse, especially a shotgun, is an idiot. They're so noisy that you'll have every undead for 5 miles homing in on you. Icepicks, axes, and arrows, that's the way to go. Personally I'd recommend a longbow as opposed to a crossbow. Crossbows have more power, but longbows reload a hell of a lot quicker.

Is a bow going to have adequate stopping power though? I would have assumed the undead would just get knocked over and stand back up again. You really need something which is going to dismember.

I think an assault rifle with a silencer and hollow point bullets would be the way to go.

Grayson · 27-08-2014 03:06PM

cerastes wrote: »

I thought fully automatic weapons were banned in most states, if not all?
Maybe Nevada or Arizona? and could only be gotten by specific rnage operators or gun dealers

I thought fully auto was banned too. Or was that the assault legislation that lapsed a couple of years back.

kylith · 27-08-2014 03:09PM

o1s1n wrote: »

Is a bow going to have adequate stopping power though? I would have assumed the undead would just get knocked over and stand back up again. You really need something which is going to dismember.

I think an assault rifle with a silencer and hollow point bullets would be the way to go.

You hit 'em in the brain they'll go down like any other zombie, with the bonus that the wood shaft will deal with vampires too.

The problem is that silencers don't make a gun silent in real life, it just makes them a bit less loud.

Reebrock · 27-08-2014 03:10PM

Just read about this on Yahoo. Very sad story.

Grayson · 27-08-2014 03:13PM

Reebrock wrote: »

Just read about this on Yahoo. Very sad story.

and yet funny at the same time.

bumper234 · 27-08-2014 03:14PM

Grayson wrote: »

and yet funny at the same time.

Why funny? At the end of the day a man has died and you find this humorous somehow?

9yo accidentally kills gun instructor

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