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How to drop your crime rate 20% - issue gun permits to residents

123578

Comments

  • #122
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    I'm not even sure why we're discussing this. There isn't enough dangerous crime in Ireland to warrant needing a gun for self-defence and there certainly isn't much demand for it either.

    We seem to be doing alright as is so why change that?


  • #123
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    Well thank fully we don't have guns in every house in Ireland, so the rambo's get to jerk off over them.

    No examples then? Thought so!
    Have a look at this...

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/burglar-shooting-could-fall-under-new-homeowners-law-184998.html


  • #124
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    The solution is to give very few people access to firearms, or effectively everyone access to guns as per the USA, and then let everyone shoot it out. Compare the USA's crime rate to Canda's if you want to know the result.

    Canada is a heavily armed society. The low murder rate is because they don't have the stones to pull the trigger.


  • #125
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    I'm not even sure why we're discussing this. There isn't enough dangerous crime in Ireland to warrant needing a gun for self-defence and there certainly isn't much demand for it either.

    We seem to be doing alright as is so why change that?

    Because some wanna be Rambo's want a gun in the house to jerk off to


  • #126
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,521 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Firearms owners being insulted for no reason...


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  • #127
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    I'm not even sure why we're discussing this. There isn't enough dangerous crime in Ireland to warrant needing a gun for self-defence and there certainly isn't much demand for it either.

    We seem to be doing alright as is so why change that?
    To wage war against the state.


  • #128
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    No examples then? Thought so!
    Have a look at this...

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/burglar-shooting-could-fall-under-new-homeowners-law-184998.html

    One swallow does not a summer make as the saying goes.


  • #129
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    Because some wanna be Rambo's want a gun in the house to jerk off to

    Name calling, a sure sign your argument is going nowhere, well so's your face!


  • #130
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    One swallow does not a summer make as the saying goes.

    Okay give me a number so, and I'll start posting the links


  • #131
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    No examples then? Thought so!
    Have a look at this...

    Good example

    "Mr Kennedy armed himself with his shotgun, approached the burglars, and ordered them to leave."

    Did they run off and leave when they seen the gun ? Nope

    "A confrontation ensued outside the premises during which Mr Kennedy opened fire, injuring one of the burglars."

    Kennedy is lucky to be alive, that's all. They won't be so soft at the next house they do.


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  • #132
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    Good example

    "Mr Kennedy armed himself with his shotgun, approached the burglars, and ordered them to leave."

    Did they run off and leave when they seen the gun ? Nope

    "A confrontation ensued outside the premises during which Mr Kennedy opened fire, injuring one of the burglars."

    Kennedy is lucky to be alive, that's all. They won't be so soft at the next house they do.

    A fine "deterrant" it proved to be in this case.


  • #133
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    Good example

    "Mr Kennedy armed himself with his shotgun, approached the burglars, and ordered them to leave."

    Did they run off and leave when they seen the gun ? Nope

    "A confrontation ensued outside the premises during which Mr Kennedy opened fire, injuring one of the burglars."

    Kennedy is lucky to be alive, that's all. They won't be so soft at the next house they do.

    Strange that they didn't take his gun though, that would have been easy according to you.


  • #134
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    Strange that they didn't take his gun though, that would have been easy according to you.

    Very easy, that's why he's lucky to be alive. Producing the gun did not make them leave.


  • #135
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    A fine "deterrant" it proved to be in this case.

    Who said anything about a deterrent, I said self defense.


  • #136
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    Very easy, that's why he's lucky to be alive. Producing the gun did not make them leave.

    No he shot one, then they legged it, like they always do. You still haven't provided a single example of burglars charging down a gun, if it's so easy why don't they do it?
    I can show you lots of examples of them fleeing.


  • #137
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    No he shot one, then they legged it, like they always do.

    Like they always do in the movies ? lol

    You must be joking, you can't shoot three people at the same time in a struggle, it would have been very easy to disarm him and do what they liked with him if he met the right ones.


  • #138
    wiseoldelf34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭wiseoldelf34


    Also handy for keeping the king of england off your back


  • #139
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    Who said anything about a deterrent, I said self defense.

    From earlier in the thread though i never claimed you said it anyway.
    MadsL wrote: »
    Where did I suggest that? What I did suggest is that the possibility that the person you are attacking in the street, or the home your are breaking into has a gun, has a deterrent effect.

    As someone pointed out above you cannot get a gun licence for self-defence purposes in Ireland. I think it is time to rethink that.


  • #140
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    You must be joking, you can't shoot three people at the same time, it would have been very easy to disarm him and do what they liked with him if he met the right ones.

    Yes if there's enough people of course it is "possible" to charge down a gun, but that just doesn't happen, it's usually only 1 person anyway, maybe as many as three, but once one gets shot they run. The second one doesn't think, "sure it's only a double barrel, if I take the next round, then Johnny can get the gun". That's why you can't provide a single example of that happening.


  • #141
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    Yes if there's enough people of course it is "possible" to charge down a gun, but that just doesn't happen, it's usually only 1 person anyway, maybe as many as three, but once one gets shot they run. The second one doesn't think, "sure it's only a double barrel, if I take the next round, then Johnny can get the gun". That's why you can't provide a single example of that happening.

    What charge ? It's not the charge of the light brigade.
    They didn't leave when this magic gun was produced and waved about.
    An "altercation ensued", they weren't standing still in a line 20 yards away.
    If four people are in a physical struggle, and its three against one, gun or no gun, you're going to loose, if the other two really want the gun, and have any wits about them at all, they are going to get it.


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  • #142
    diomed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Nice to see the OP is proving things with statistics.


  • #143
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    What charge ? It's not the charge of the light brigade.
    They didn't leave when this magic gun was produced and waved about.
    An "altercation ensued", they weren't standing still in a line 20 yards away.
    If four people are in a physical struggle, and its three against one, gun or no gun, you're going to loose, if the other two really want the gun, and have any wits about them at all, they are going to get it.

    I'm not sure you get the general principle of using a gun for self defense, you don't walk up and poke them with it, you shoot them from a distance!
    An altercation could be verbal, him shouting at them to get off his property is an altercation.
    Look I'm obviously not going convince you that guns are effective for self defense, I'm sure by now you've seen the thousands of examples of where they have been used effectively, and are choosing ignore them, and stick with your "the intruders will take the gun" line, so lets just agree to disagree,


  • #144
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    I'm not sure you get the general principle of using a gun for self defense, you don't walk up and poke them with it, you shoot them from a distance!
    An altercation could be verbal, him shouting at them to get off his property is an altercation.
    Look I'm obviously not going convince you that guns are effective for self defense, I'm sure by now you've seen the thousands of examples of where they have been used effectively, and are choosing ignore them, and stick with your "the intruders will take the gun" line, so lets just agree to disagree,

    What distance, It's not a firing range.
    When all 3 of them are in the same room as you, no one is "at a distance".
    If I was robbing houses with two mates, I'd make sure we were at least tooled up with hammers and knives. Anyone on their own, confronting me and my two mates with a gun in a room downstairs, better be able to kill of three of us at the exact same time, because he's going to be disarmed, one way or the other.


  • #145
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    It's not a firing range.
    When all 3 of them are in the same room as you, no one is "at a distance".

    If they're in the same room as you it's already too late, you need a knife not a gun. But in most cases where they have been used effectively, the homeowners hear them entering, and position themselves accordingly.
    For example you hear a window break downstairs, and you get your gun and guard the top of the stairs, or if they're in the next room, get behind the bed and aim at your bedroom door. You are most likely to hear them before they get in because they usually have to break something.


  • #146
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    So the crime rate in Switzerland must be through the roof then?.............but, no it's not.

    Are any laws relaxed in Switzerland ??
    Are HANDguns easy to obtain legally there... Would have thought wandering around a Swiss city with a shotgun or rifle slung over your shoulder would bring down all kinds of trouble on you..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #147
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Are any laws relaxed in Switzerland ??
    Are HANDguns easy to obtain legally there... Would have thought wandering around a Swiss city with a shotgun or rifle slung over your shoulder would bring down all kinds of trouble on you..

    I would imagine walking around any major city in the Western world with a Rifle or Shotgun is frowned upon.
    Swiss can buy handguns but they are controlled, much like guns here, background check, serial number registration etc. But Switzerland has the second highest rate of handgun ownership and handgun murders in the industrialized world, after the U.S. .Handguns are not a great idea in the hands of the public IMO.


  • #148
    timetogo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭timetogo


    That article is all percentages.

    Here are the real numbers.
    http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/il/crime/

    6 murders per 100,000.

    Dublin's highest was 1.8 in 2007

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rate-of-homicide-among-highest-in-europe-265006.html


  • #149
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,119 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    We need guns to combat our guns and people robbing spar, let's have more guns. Then when there are a million new guns, i for one would feel reallllly safe.


  • #150
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    If you wake up in the middle of the night and three tooled up, drugged up, scumbags are downstairs robbing, you might get one of them with a gun if you are very lucky, but the other two will easily overpower you. Scubags have no fear of ordinary joe soaps with a gun. People have been watching too many movies again.
    So every house should have a gun ? Which means the scum bags that are robbing homes in the first place will also have them. Great solution to crime all right.

    Don't forget these legally held fire arms are locked in a safe, separate from the ammunition... Not under the mattress... So you may have to go make said scumbags a cup of tea and a snack while your missus goes and gets the gun ready... Careful now

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • #151
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    No he shot one, then they legged it, like they always do. You still haven't provided a single example of burglars charging down a gun, if it's so easy why don't they do it?
    I can show you lots of examples of them fleeing.
    HCSO: Minister shot & killed with his own gun during home invasion. Intruder wrestled gun away during struggle


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