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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    It would appear Hamas has backed a bid to join the international criminal court.

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/hamas-kills-11-suspected-informers-israel-25080623


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Awkward Badger


    Egginacup wrote: »
    I've just seen that 2080 Palestinians have been killed since July.

    Now that number is quite shocking, but we ought to think about the wounded also. I would imagine that for every death there must be at least 3 who are maimed or badly wounded, whether it be blinded, crippled, amputated, dismembered, burnt, etc,

    So for the nearly 2100 Palestinians killed in this campaign, is it safe to assume that almost another 10,000 have been wounded in this effort?

    I would say that that is probably a conservative guess. Be that as it may, 2100 Palestinians are now dead and 1000's more are in need of medical assistance. Is a blockade of medical supplies to help them beyond the remit of anybody?

    That seems to be pretty close to how its being reported anyway from what it looks like on the wiki page. Only wiki I know but it takes into account a lot of different reports including from the IDF.

    Health Ministry of the Gaza Strip: 2,083 killed and 10,482 wounded
    PCHR: 2,057 killed (1,581 civilians) and 10,271 wounded
    UN OCHA: 2,042 killed (1,444 civilians)
    TIC: 1,552 killed (480 civilians, 467 militants, 605 unknown)
    IDF: 1,768[26]–2,000[27] killed (900 militants), 250 captured (159 identified as militants)

    And its not just medical supplies that are an issue. Everything is going to be an issue after their infrastructure being demolished and a large amount of the population displaced.
    As of 20 July 2014 hospitals in Gaza were ill-equipped and facing severe shortage of various categories of medicine, medical supplies, and fuel.[173] Egypt temporarily reopened the Rafah crossing with Gaza to allow medical supplies to enter and injured Palestinians to receive treatment in Egypt.[174] Also, due to the operation, prices of food, including fish and produce, rose dramatically.[175] A 21 July news report stated that over 83,000 Palestinians had taken shelter in U.N. facilities.[176]

    According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), as of 31 July 2014 in the Gaza Strip, over 273,000 Palestinians have been displaced, of which 236,375 are taking shelter in 88 UNRWA schools (over eleven percent of the Gazan population). UNRWA has exhausted its capacity to absorb displaced persons, and overcrowding in shelters risks the outbreak of epidemics. 1.8 million people are affected by a halt or reduction of the water supply, 138 schools and 26 health facilities[59][177][178] have been damaged, 872 homes have been totally destroyed or severely damaged and homes of 5,005 families have been damaged but are still inhabitable. Throughout the Gaza Strip, people receive only 2 hours of electricity per day. The destruction of Gaza’s only power plant has had an immediate effect on the public health situation and reduced water and sanitation services, with hospitals becoming dependent on generators.

    OCHA estimated that at least 373,000 children require psychosocial support.[20] "Intense overcrowding, compounded by the limited access of humanitarian staff to certain areas, is increasingly undermining the living conditions at many shelters and raising protection concerns. Water supply has been particularly challenging..."[179] More than 485,000 internally displaced persons are in need of emergency food assistance.[59]

    The UN described the level of destruction as without precedent. Oxfam estimates the damage at $5 billion, in an economy with a GNP OF $6.6 billion.[180] Gaza City, home to 500,000, suffered damage to 20-25% of its housing. Beit Hanoun, with 70% of its housing stock damaged, is considered uninhabitable, with 30,000 residents there in need of accommodation. The only power station in the Strip was knocked out on 29 July, and the infrastructure of power transmission lines and sewage pumps and have been severely damaged, with a major sewage pipe catering to 500,000 badly damaged. Among the infrastructure targeted and destroyed by Israel's bombing campaign were 220 factories in various industrial zones, including a major carpentry enterprise, construction companies, a major biscuit factory, dairy farms and livestock, a candy manufacturer, the orange groves of Beit Hanoun, Gaza's largest mosques, and several TV stations. Farms, as a consequence of damage or the presence of unexploded ordnance, are often inaccessible, and the damage to agriculture is estimated at over $200 million. 10 out of 26 hospitals have been closed.

    Spotted this article which is just talking about the overall impact on the children of Gaza.
    More than 467 Palestinian children have died since July. That is more than the combined number of child fatalities in the two previous conflicts in Gaza.

    According to the World Health Organization, more than 3,000 children have been injured, of which an estimated 1,000 will suffer from a lifelong disability. The United Nations estimates at least 373,000 children require direct and specialized psychosocial support. And, based on the total number of adults killed, there may be up to 1,500 children orphaned.

    Gazan children’s right to an education has also been severely compromised with at least 25 schools reportedly damaged so severely that they can no longer be used. We speak to Pernille Ironside, chief of UNICEF’s Gaza field office.

    "There isn’t a single family in Gaza who hasn’t experienced personally death, injury, the loss of their home, extensive damage, displacement," Ironside says. "The psychological toll that has on a people, it just cannot be overestimated, and especially on children."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    I don't know what to make of this statement really. Some of your comments towards Makikomi regarding military matters stink of nothing but jealousy really.

    Jealous of what exactly? As far as i am aware this is the only time i have ever replied to him on this (or any?) subject :confused:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Jealous of what exactly? :confused:
    Never been ordered to shell sleeping babies? Your life just isn't complete man.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    Apparently new mortars are accurate
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4506580,00.html
    I doubt Hamas has access to these GPS guided monsters.


    What international courses of redress do the palestinians actuall have?

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/aug/18/hague-court-western-pressure-gaza-inquiry

    This article suggests that israel and america have not signed up to the ICC


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Egginacup wrote: »
    I've just seen that 2080 Palestinians have been killed since July.

    Current casualties stand at.....


    Last updated: 07:00 GMT, 22 August 2014

    Total killed: 2108
    Total civilians killed: 1618
    Total children killed: 500
    Total women killed: 287
    Total Hamas killed: 490

    Total wounded: 10430(believed to be mostly civilians)
    Total children wounded: 3160
    Total women wounded: 2018
    http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10491:statistics-victims-of-the-israeli-offensive-on-gaza-since-08-july-2014&catid=145:in-focus

    A disturbing 3660 Palestinian children have been killed or wounded so far. Then after yesterday's tragic death of an Israeli child, out comes psychopath Netanyahu vowing harsh retribution for the death. Really Bibi? Do you really need to add a few thousand more kids to your kill streak? Surely your bloodlust must be sated at this stage?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 507 ✭✭✭...__...


    Even bipod type mortars with manual elevators are extremely accurate, Its a case of you see a building aim and fire your life expectancy is less than 60 seconds so its pretty much fire and run.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭Fiolina


    A 14 floor building containing 50 apartments in the Remal Quarter was destroyed by israel in the last hour. The occupants had 10 minute warning to vacate. (sorry I can't post link)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/dundalk-fined-18k-for-palestine-flag-flown-against-hajduk-split-30530506.html

    Dundalk soccer club fined €18,000 because a fan flew a Palestinian flag,

    Rediculous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Fiolina wrote: »
    A 14 floor building containing 50 apartments in the Remal Quarter was destroyed by israel in the last hour. The occupants had 10 minute warning to vacate. (sorry I can't post link)

    http://news.sky.com/story/1323687/gaza-israeli-airstrike-hits-apartment-block
    Witnesses say a 12-storey apartment block in Gaza City has collapsed after being hit by an Israeli airstrike.

    Palestinian officials say Israeli aircraft fired two missiles at the building, sending a fireball into the sky and wounding 22 people, including 11 children.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    bumper234 wrote: »

    The ongoing collective punishment being inflicted on the civilian population in Gaza. Is yet another flagrant breach of the The Geneva Convention. It has been cited in multiple protocols since the 19th century. The IDF breaches must be running into the hundreds, or possibly thousands of breaches at this stage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 669 ✭✭✭whatstherush




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    I was in at the GPO today with the IPSC handing out information leaflets regarding the BDS campaign and it was a very enlightening experience. While most of the folks were happy to take the leaflets and engage on the subject, I was quite surprised by the number of folks who gave us a wide berth and would not make eye contact. There were a few snide remarks from passers by and I had few Israeli people come up to me and question how I could be supporting Palestine and the Hamas Terrorists. On two occasions it was a couple of ladies, but after a few minutes of talking other family members dragged them away. But they were ok and just arguing their point about the rockets and the child that was killed yesterday. They would not listen to arguments about Israel being an occupying force or the disproportionate response. it was just mostly how I would like people firing rockets at me.

    On one occasion I was approached by a fairly irate guy demanding how I could be supporting terrorism. He asked did I know an Israeli child was killed yesterday. When I asked about how he felt about the 500 Palestinian children who have died he said they were all scum and should all be killed an then he stormed off.

    I witnessed what I assume was a youngish Israeli woman take a leaflet from one of the other IPSC volunteers, read a bit of it and start laughing. Then the man who was with her, possibly her husband, took the leaflet, looked at it and handed back to the volunteer. They then went over to the stall the IPSC had set up and started remonstrating with the folks there.

    In my naivety it never entered my head that I would have to defend my position on the Palestine/Israel conflict with people from Israel who staunchly defended the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF.

    It was the first time in my life ever handing out leaflets on the street and as I said, it was a very enlightening experience.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker



    I would be really interested in hearing the military significance of that apartment block


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    I would be really interested in hearing the military significance of that apartment block
    Same as the schools, hospitals etc.

    Report says the firing point of the mortar that killed the four year old Israeli child was situated beside a school.

    Hamas know exactly what they are doing and glee in the response from Israel.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    I would be really interested in hearing the military significance of that apartment block

    It was obviously a terrorist apartment block.

    Well done to you for doing the work today, thats how apartheid was eventually finished off. Ordinary people like Mary Manning and her colleagues taking a stand against oppression. It will work again with israel, evil is as evil does.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    getzls wrote: »
    Same as the schools, hospitals etc.

    Report says the firing point of the mortar that killed the four year old Israeli child was situated beside a school.

    Hamas know exactly what they are doing and glee in the response from Israel.

    And has been proven to be utter bollox. I love how so many believe everything that the Israeli propaganda machine spouts out.

    http://www.imemc.org/article/68933?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PalestineNews+%28Palestine+News%29

    Israel Retracts False Claim Regarding Alleged Hamas Rocket Base
    Israeli officials retracted this morning their earlier claim on Friday that the rocket that killed a four-year-old child in Southern Israel was launched from an UNRWA school in the Gaza Strip. 


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭shedweller


    bumper234 wrote: »
    And has been proven to be utter bollox. I love how so many believe everything that the Israeli propaganda machine spouts out.

    http://www.imemc.org/article/68933?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PalestineNews+%28Palestine+News%29

    Israel Retracts False Claim Regarding Alleged Hamas Rocket Base
    ****ing sleazy sneaky bastards. They have done this so many times and nobody has called them up on it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    I would be really interested in hearing the military significance of that apartment block

    Rockets were fired from the basement :pac::pac::eek:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    A rocket is fired into Israel every ten minutes.
    Come on folks, what response would you have?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    bumper234 wrote: »
    And has been proven to be utter bollox. I love how so many believe everything that the Israeli propaganda machine spouts out.

    http://www.imemc.org/article/68933?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PalestineNews+%28Palestine+News%29

    Israel Retracts False Claim Regarding Alleged Hamas Rocket Base

    And you being a terrorist supporter would believe that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    getzls wrote: »
    And you being a terrorist supporter would believe that.

    Please explain how i am.a terrorist supporter?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    getzls wrote: »
    A rocket is fired into Israel every ten minutes.
    Come on folks, what response would you have?

    Give them a reason not to do it by..

    Not getting your nickers in a twist when Hamas/Fatah agree to forming a unity government for the Palestinian people. Go to peace talks with the aim of getting peace for your people. Would be a good start!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,136 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    getzls wrote: »
    A rocket is fired into Israel every ten minutes.
    Come on folks, what response would you have?

    I'd question the policies that my government carries out in occupied Palestine.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    getzls wrote: »
    A rocket is fired into Israel every ten minutes.
    Come on folks, what response would you have?
    I'd stop trying to steal their country and they just might stop defending themselves.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    getzls wrote: »
    And you being a terrorist supporter would believe that.
    Oh goodie, another pro-Zionist to laugh at when he can't answer the question: what is your definition of terrorist that doesn't cover the IDF just as well as Hamas?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,294 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    getzls wrote: »
    Come on folks, what response would you have?

    Kill every woman and child in Gaza?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    getzls wrote: »
    And you being a terrorist supporter would believe that.

    You need to take a long hard look in the mirror fella.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    getzls wrote: »
    A rocket is fired into Israel every ten minutes.
    Come on folks, what response would you have?

    Build higher walls and increase the Navy presence and then exterminate the 'catch'
    Then build settlements and ignore every moral in the world


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The ongoing collective punishment being inflicted on the civilian population in Gaza. Is yet another flagrant breach of the The Geneva Convention. It has been cited in multiple protocols since the 19th century. The IDF breaches must be running into the hundreds, or possibly thousands of breaches at this stage.
    Forget the 19th century

    Going back 3,700 years we have written codes that limit punishments to "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"


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