Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August

dav3 · 22-08-2014 01:16AM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

I'm going to bed, to sleep, perchance to dream... Thankfully, I'm going to bed without fear... pity the same can't be said for millions of Israelis.

The millions of Israelis will be fine. Certainly not cowering in bomb shelters as the hysterics from the Israel propaganda machine would have us believe.

Most of them will have their deck chairs out.

Israelis gather on hillsides to watch and cheer as military drops bombs on Gaza

CNN shows Israelis cheering Gaza bombardments

delthedriver · 22-08-2014 01:16AM

Perhaps the title of this thread should be reviewed?

Hamas - Israeli conflict , may be more appropriate?

May peace prevail.

Supergurrier · 22-08-2014 01:20AM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

You support Palestine, you support Hamas, ergo, you support terror.

Oh and don't make the mistake of not living in a terror zone. If Israel falls to extreme Islam, we may all too soon live in a war zone.

No I support the suffering of the ordinary citizens in the Gaza strip who have no choice but be penned in and slowly exterminated in an illegal land grab.

As many do its called empathy as we have been there ourselves.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-08-2014 01:29AM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Putting up claptrap like that, calling into question every single thing Israel does. They should support their country in its hour of need, not run it down.

Hour of need ?

The only Jewish civilian killed was one who went into a war zone, despite all we've heard on this thread about missiles flying left, right and centre representing a deadly threat.

How many people have died in traffic accidents in the meantime ?

Tuisceanch · 22-08-2014 01:33AM

wes wrote: »

There is also no proof that it wasn't written by a blessing of Unicorns........ So it must Unicorns, or maybe Aliens......

Well strangely it included the list of the signatures and there's also a twitter feed and a web page. The twitter feed was also where I obtained the article on the rise of anti-semitism in Europe. I thought he might appreciate that as he expressed an interest in it before but he seems quite contrary and not inclined to read anything. Maybe he's just upset about something and feels left out.

Tuisceanch · 22-08-2014 02:04AM

Jewish Voice for Peace-Chicago members interrupt former Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren to say “shame on you” at Jewish United Fund celebration of Israeli war crimes

http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/blog/breaking-chicago-jews-say-no-to-israeli-war-criminals-at-juf

I hope this doesn't upset anybody as some people think this sort of thing is disrespectful to the Israeli government and their arduous efforts to bring peace to the area. I guess you can't keep everybody happy.:)

However it's out there and newsworthy and so we shouldn't impose self censorship because it makes some people uncomfortable. They should be reassured by the light that shines deep from within them and not be swayed by doubt. I know they are strong people and am sure they will not be troubled. Shalom noble princes and princesses of the night.

old_aussie · 22-08-2014 03:41AM

Tuisceanch wrote: »

There are a number of hate fueled Pro Israeli Facebook pages who revel in this sort of thing. Wouldn't you better off there? or is this infantile malicious enjoyment of violence really just a cry for help?. I'm sure there's another thread dealing with self help issues.

Just pointing out a fact.

old_aussie · 22-08-2014 03:46AM

Tuisceanch wrote: »

There are a number of hate fueled Pro Israeli Facebook pages who revel in this sort of thing. Wouldn't you better off there? or is this infantile malicious enjoyment of violence really just a cry for help?. I'm sure there's another thread dealing with self help issues.

I'm not pro Israel.

NotASheeple · 22-08-2014 06:57AM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Zionism has nothing to do with religion

Reading that brought a tear to my eye. Maybe there is hope, has something finally been learned.

And it looks like it was a false dawn....

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Sorry, I stopped taking this thread seriously a long time ago.

So kinda like how everybody of sound logic or reason, probably never took your 'participation' seriously.

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

the Munich Agreement gave Nazi Germany the Sudetenland.

Zionism justifying Nazism? Well they are kindred spirits I suppose.

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Traitors. Every country has them.

Ah O.K., so you are an Israeli Zionist then.

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Who says that Israel is acting immorally?

Certainly not you. And Did Goebbels ever condemn the Nazi's? Not that morality ever mattered to Israeli regimes anyway. Israel has always behaved like a rogue terrorist state, that has acted outside of the UN and a respect for Human Rights since its inception.

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Ah ok, so Jews opposing Israel are to be listened to

Correct and that's a brownie point for you. Jews who oppose the hate and war mongering of Zionism absolutely should be listened to. The same way how German's who opposed the hate and war mongering of Nazism, should also have been listened. However unfortunately you will note, both twisted ideologies have an obsession for silencing and censoring their internal critics. Controlling their media propaganda mouthpieces is a priority for such mindsets.

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Putting up claptrap like that, calling into question every single thing Israel does. They should support their country in its hour of need, not run it down.

Kinda like how every German should have supported and never questioned the Fatherland? Far Right extremists, like their Far Left brothers, hate freedom, hate democracy. Now take you medicine and respect the right to protest against Zionist extremism.

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Much as I understand your love for terror.

More falsehoods I see. No, that poster you are directing your nonsensical bile at, has been highlighting your support for Israeli Zionist state terror. And your response is very similar, to what those university recruited Israeli trained pro-Zionist bloggers churn out. That being - lies, misrepresent what was said, muddy the waters, deflect and divert ect, ect. And just in case you try to bull**** your way outta that one....http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-recruits-army-of-bloggers-to-combat-anti-zionist-web-sites-1.268393
Yes it has already been discussed, but I'm guessing you missed it.

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Interestingly, Israeli tolerates criticism from within its own ranks

Unless you're an Israeli Arab peacefully protesting in Jerusalem. The Brown Shirt style beatens, getting dragged off the street and arrested are never too far away. Tremendous tolerance alright.

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

You could sum up the Palestinian argument so simply... "Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Palestine good, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Palestine good, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Palestine good, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Palestine good, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Palestine good, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Palestine good, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Palestine good, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Israel bad, Palestine good" ad nauseum.

Your behaviour is akin to how the bully throws a tantrum, shouts, stamps his feet and flails his arms about. No bully boy tactics won't work here. Yes they do in Israel, but in most civilised nations they don't.

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

No its not, its a Palestinian propaganda thread.

I'll quote what the other poster said...

Tuisceanch wrote: »

The purpose of the thread is to provide informative substance for debate. It's not all about you and you don't need to always respond.

I put that in bold so you might actually read it. You see once again, if you had of read through the thread. You would have noticed how the majority of posters (Usually the non-Zionist supporters) started posting in here, because of the horrors we were witnessing in Gaza.

And I'm sorry to say, the savagery of the IDF was kinda hard to avoid. The IDF murdering those little boys on the beach, the IDF shelling the UN facilities, the hospital sites and so on. Yes, it is almost impossible not to have sympathy for, or to root for the Palestinians civilians in Gaza.

I like most here also condemned the rocket attacks on Israel by Hamas. Repeat: The targeting of all civilians anywhere, is a terrorists act. And it should always be condemned imo. Of course you never saw that because you didn't bother your arse reading the thread. You just jumped in and well, basically made an arse of yourself.

But I suspect you never had any interest in the truth, or seeing how this thread has continually been attacked by posters who share your mindset. Disinformation and derailment is all ye seem to be about. And that's no surprise because you can't justify the unjustifiable.

Ignorant etc. · 22-08-2014 08:36AM

NotASheeple wrote: »

Reading that brought a tear to my eye. Maybe there is hope, has something finally been learned.

And it looks like it was a false dawn....

So kinda like how everybody of sound logic or reason, probably never took your 'participation' seriously.

Zionism justifying Nazism? Well they are kindred spirits I suppose.

Ah O.K., so you are an Israeli Zionist then.

Certainly not you. And Did Goebbels ever condemn the Nazi's? Not that morality ever mattered to Israeli regimes anyway. Israel has always behaved like a rogue terrorist state, that has acted outside of the UN and a respect for Human Rights since its inception.

Correct and that's a brownie point for you. Jews who oppose the hate and war mongering of Zionism absolutely should be listened to. The same way how German's who opposed the hate and war mongering of Nazism, should also have been listened. However unfortunately you will note, both twisted ideologies have an obsession for silencing and censoring their internal critics. Controlling their media propaganda mouthpieces is a priority for such mindsets.

Kinda like how every German should have supported and never questioned the Fatherland? Far Right extremists, like their Far Left brothers, hate freedom, hate democracy. Now take you medicine and respect the right to protest against Zionist extremism.

More falsehoods I see. No, that poster you are directing your nonsensical bile at, has been highlighting your support for Israeli Zionist state terror. And your response is very similar, to what those university recruited Israeli trained pro-Zionist bloggers churn out. That being - lies, misrepresent what was said, muddy the waters, deflect and divert ect, ect. And just in case you try to bull**** your way outta that one....http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-recruits-army-of-bloggers-to-combat-anti-zionist-web-sites-1.268393
Yes it has already been discussed, but I'm guessing you missed it.

Unless you're an Israeli Arab peacefully protesting in Jerusalem. The Brown Shirt style beatens, getting dragged off the street and arrested are never too far away. Tremendous tolerance alright.

Your behaviour is akin to how the bully throws a tantrum, shouts, stamps his feet and flails his arms about. No bully boy tactics won't work here. Yes they do in Israel, but in most civilised nations they don't.

I'll quote what the other poster said...

I put that in bold so you might actually read it. You see once again, if you had of read through the thread. You would have noticed how the majority of posters (Usually the non-Zionist supporters) started posting in here, because of the horrors we were witnessing in Gaza.

And I'm sorry to say, the savagery of the IDF was kinda hard to avoid. The IDF murdering those little boys on the beach, the IDF shelling the UN facilities, the hospital sites and so on. Yes, it is almost impossible not to have sympathy for, or to root for the Palestinians civilians in Gaza.

I like most here also condemned the rocket attacks on Israel by Hamas. Repeat: The targeting of all civilians anywhere, is a terrorists act. And it should always be condemned imo. Of course you never saw that because you didn't bother your arse reading the thread. You just jumped in and well, basically made an arse of yourself.

But I suspect you never had any interest in the truth, or seeing how this thread has continually been attacked by posters who share your mindset. Disinformation and derailment is all ye seem to be about. And that's no surprise because you can't justify the unjustifiable.

You have cut and pasted snippets of what I said to change their meaning. I at no stage said, for example, that zionism has nothing to do with religion. I laughed at the idea that a movement that is based around a section of Jewish ideas is not connected to religion. As you can't even be bothered to listen to my argument it proves that, just like the whole pro-Palestinian, pro-terror, pro-extremism, propaganda machine, your whole argument is bunkum.

Ignorant etc. · 22-08-2014 08:38AM

dav3 wrote: »

The millions of Israelis will be fine. Certainly not cowering in bomb shelters as the hysterics from the Israel propaganda machine would have us believe.

Most of them will have their deck chairs out.

Israelis gather on hillsides to watch and cheer as military drops bombs on Gaza

CNN shows Israelis cheering Gaza bombardments

Oh give up, you'll be posting videos of the Running of the Jew from Borat next.

Ignorant etc. · 22-08-2014 08:40AM

Tuisceanch wrote: »

Yes you keep saying this and it's not very interesting and doesn't make much of a case for your desire to discuss civilly. But I don't mind as only you can make yourself interesting to others.

Whilst your whole argument is you support Israel, you support zionism, you support terror.

As I've already stated, you can't discuss civilly with firebrand pro-Palestinians. Ye see the whole situation as Palestine good, Israel bad, and conflict is not like that.

bumper234 · 22-08-2014 08:40AM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

You have cut and pasted snippets of what I said to change their meaning. I at no stage said, for example, that zionism has nothing to do with religion. I laughed at the idea that a movement that is based around a section of Jewish ideas is not connected to religion. As you can't even be bothered to listen to my argument it proves that, just like the whole pro-Palestinian, pro-terror, pro-extremism, propaganda machine, your whole argument is bunkum.

You're starting to sound like George Bush on speed, Typical overuse of buzzwords :rolleyes:

Ignorant etc. · 22-08-2014 08:43AM

bumper234 wrote: »

You're starting to sound like George Bush on speed, Typical overuse of buzzwords :rolleyes:

You showed your level when you initimated that the Hamas rockets were like Catherine Wheels.

R P McMurphy · 22-08-2014 08:54AM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Thanks for the heads up about Hamas only using fireworks lads... I'll make sure I get mine from my local Asda before the end of October before those Hamas ****ers have bought them all so my kid won't be disappointed.

Script malfunction

TommyKnocker · 22-08-2014 09:00AM

...__... wrote: »

what a really stupid comment these "fireworks" carry 20 kg of explosive if one was to slam into your house you wouldnt be calling the gaurds saying kids are letting off fireworks

While I fully support Hamas's right to exist as a resistance force against the zionist, terrorist, racist, apartheid state that is Israel and the "Brave" murderous zionist minions of the IDF, I do not condone the firing of rockets by Hamas into Israel, as civilians ON EITHER SIDE should NEVER be considered legitimate targets.

But lets get real here

Damage caused by rockets fired into Israel

http://www.vosizneias.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/F140709YS60-725x483.jpg

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/600x39960.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHUkA3W6wp-oHaUgzXrksPapFQSTYxJl52S5vW4R7fWsQF5zoAIw

Damaged caused by an Israeli strike in retaliation

http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/headline/public/2014/08/08/gaza-city-crater.jpg?itok=UrvHzVxt

http://vipmedia.globalnews.ca/2014/07/israel-gaza-jul-10-strike.jpg?w=720

http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/ui_frontend/thumbnail/684/0/gaza_bombing_july_2014.jpg

Israel dropped 3 x GBU28, 2000KG+ bombs on the house of the Hamas leader whose wife and baby were killed recently.

Just what was the expected outcome of dropping 6000KG+ of explosives on a house in Gaza, which is reported to be one of the most densely populated areas in the world?

If Israel knew so much about this guy, they KNEW he had a wife a child. They well KNEW the kind of devastation 6000KG+ of explosives would do. But the most moral, democratic country in the middle east decided that the certain deaths of a woman and her baby along with how many others were killed was a justifiable cost to get 1 man :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: and almost all the worlds leaders stood by and watched and said nothing

And people question why the outrage over what is happening in Palestine.

Ignorant etc. · 22-08-2014 09:04AM

And what compassion did this Hamas lunatic have towards women and children in Israel? He was filth, and the only way to deal with filth is to hit them as hard as possible. If he was Hamas, then so was his wife and his child was just another Hamas militant in the making. Tough luck.

bumper234 · 22-08-2014 09:06AM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

You showed your level when you initimated that the Hamas rockets were like Catherine Wheels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket

Design[edit]
The aim of the Qassam rocket design appears to be ease and speed of manufacture, using common tools and components. To this end, the rockets are propelled by a solid mixture of sugar and potassium nitrate, a widely available fertilizer. The warhead is filled with smuggled or scavenged TNT and urea nitrate, another common fertilizer. This is close to Ammonite.[16]

The rocket consists of a steel cylinder, containing a rectangular block of the propellant. A steel plate which forms and supports the nozzles is then spot-welded to the base of the cylinder. The warhead consists of a simple metal shell surrounding the explosives, and is triggered by a fuse constructed using a simple firearm cartridge, a spring and a nail.[16]

While early designs used a single nozzle which screwed into the base, recent rockets use a seven-nozzle design, with the nozzles drilled directly into the rocket baseplate. This change both increases the tolerance of the rocket to small nozzle design defects, and eases manufacture by allowing the use of a drill rather than a lathe during manufacture due to the smaller nozzle size. However due to the cone shape of each of the 7 nozzles, each nozzle's inside must be made with a lathe, or else the interior of the nozzle would be cylindrical rather than conical (see rocket engine nozzle). Unlike many other rockets, the nozzles are not canted, which means the rocket does not spin about its longitudinal axis during flight. While this results in a significant decrease in accuracy, it greatly simplifies rocket manufacture and the launch systems required.[16]

http://www.jewishpolicycenter.org/prr/qassams.php

Qassam I. This rocket weighs 77 lbs, has a diameter of 4.5 inches, a length of 6 feet, a maximum range of 1.86 miles, and contains a warhead that weighs 18 pounds. The primary target for this rocket is Sderot and its environs. The Qassam I accounts for most rockets fired to date.

Qassam II. This rocket weighs up to 88 pounds, has a diameter of 4.5 inches, a length of 6 feet, a maximum range of 4.35 miles, and contains a warhead that weighs 8.8 pounds. The Qassam II continues to hammer Sderot and its environs.

Qassam III. This rocket weighs 110 pounds, has a diameter of 4.5 inches, a length of over 8 feet, a maximum range of 6.21 miles, and contains a warhead that weighs 17.6 pounds. The Qassam III has reached Ashkelon and its surrounding areas.

Qassam IV. This rocket weighs 88-110 pounds, has a diameter of 4.5 inches, a length over 8.5 feet, a maximum range of 9 miles or more, and its warhead weighs 22 pounds. The Qassam IV has hit Ashkelon and may travel even farther as technology develops.

And how does Israel reply to these home made rockets?

A 1000lb missile onto a civilian area

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/FGyY075VCZk/0.jpg

But no disproportionate response there right :rolleyes:

Ignorant etc. · 22-08-2014 09:06AM

TommyKnocker wrote: »

While I fully support Hamas's right to exist as a resistance force against the zionist, terrorist, racist, apartheid state that is Israel and the "Brave" murderous zionist minions of the IDF, I do not condone the firing of rockets by Hamas into Israel, as civilians ON EITHER SIDE should NEVER be considered legitimate targets.

But lets get real here

Damage caused by rockets fired into Israel

http://www.vosizneias.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/F140709YS60-725x483.jpg

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/600x39960.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHUkA3W6wp-oHaUgzXrksPapFQSTYxJl52S5vW4R7fWsQF5zoAIw

Damaged caused by an Israeli strike in retaliation

http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/headline/public/2014/08/08/gaza-city-crater.jpg?itok=UrvHzVxt

http://vipmedia.globalnews.ca/2014/07/israel-gaza-jul-10-strike.jpg?w=720

http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/ui_frontend/thumbnail/684/0/gaza_bombing_july_2014.jpg

Israel dropped 3 x GBU28, 2000KG+ bombs on the house of the Hamas leader whose wife and baby were killed recently.

Just what was the expected outcome of dropping 6000KG+ of explosives on a house in Gaza, which is reported to be one of the most densely populated areas in the world?

If Israel knew so much about this guy, they KNEW he had a wife a child. They well KNEW the kind of devastation 6000KG+ of explosives would do. But the most moral, democratic country in the middle east decided that the certain deaths of a woman and her baby along with how many others were killed was a justifiable cost to get 1 man :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: and almost all the worlds leaders stood by and watched and said nothing

And people question why the outrage over what is happening in Palestine.

Oh give up with those pictures will ya :rolleyes:. You make it look like Hamas are kids in the street going around throwing stones and as soon as a Guard gives them a kick up the ar5e they'll go crying to Mammy.

If the IRA, back twenty years ago, could destruct the whole of Manchester city centre with a bomb in a fúcking lorry, do you seriously buy that, twenty years on, Hamas are so ineffectual? Come on, please, either you're still in Junior Infants or you're being economical with the truth.

bumper234 · 22-08-2014 09:08AM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Oh give up with those pictures will ya :rolleyes:. You make it look like Hamas are kids in the street going around throwing stones and as soon as a Guard gives them a kick up the ar5e they'll go crying to Mammy.

No

Palestinian kids throw stones they get shot by the IDF scum.

Ignorant etc. · 22-08-2014 09:13AM

bumper234 wrote: »

No

Palestinian kids throw stones they get shot by the IDF scum.

Yeah, and Hamas are so ineffectual that their rockets make potholes in the street rofl. As I said, if the IRA, twenty years ago, could destroy the city centre of Manchester with a bomb in a fúcking lorry, how backward do Hamas have to be to only be able to create potholes? Ahahaha... maybe Hamas did their training here given the whole country is full of potholes lol. The problem with your lot is that you've been listening to too much guff from the lunatics that run the pro-Palestinian groups. You make it sound like Hamas are like bold kids. First their rockets are like Catherine Wheels, now they are so ineffectual that they only create potholes in the street anyway :rolleyes:.

bumper234 · 22-08-2014 09:15AM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Yeah, and Hamas are so ineffectual that their rockets make potholes in the street rofl. As I said, if the IRA, twenty years ago, could destroy the city centre of Manchester with a bomb in a fúcking lorry, how backward do Hamas have to be to only be able to create potholes? Ahahaha... maybe Hamas did their training here given the whole country is full of potholes lol. The problem with your lot is that you've been listening to too much guff from the lunatics that run the pro-Palestinian groups. You make it sound like Hamas are like bold kids. First their rockets are like Catherine Wheels, now they are so ineffectual that they only create potholes in the street anyway :rolleyes:.

So show us the damage that Palestinian rockets cause please, Show us how they create as much damage as the Israeli ones. I'll sit here not holding my breath.

SeaBreezes · 22-08-2014 09:18AM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

And what compassion did this Hamas lunatic have towards women and children in Israel? He was filth, and the only way to deal with filth is to hit them as hard as possible. If he was Hamas, then so was his wife and his child was just another Hamas militant in the making. Tough luck.

Careful your true Hateful Zionist colours are showing.

I feel really sorry for people SO filled with hate, SO brainwashed, unable to use reason, trained not to question. That when they write something like

' wife and his child was just another Hamas militant in the making. Tough luck'

that they cannot see the monstrousity of the statement. A 2 year old child. And they see them as a terrorist.

For Shame. For Shame Israel for the slaughter of innocents.

For shame those that defend these atrocities.

humanji · 22-08-2014 09:24AM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

And what compassion did this Hamas lunatic have towards women and children in Israel? He was filth, and the only way to deal with filth is to hit them as hard as possible. If he was Hamas, then so was his wife and his child was just another Hamas militant in the making. Tough luck.

Even for this thread advocating the killing of children is too far. Don't post in this thread again.

ElChe32 · 22-08-2014 09:36AM

Well that comment really was the lowest thing I've seen on boards in a while. Great start to the day..

chicken foot · 22-08-2014 09:52AM

And I got an infraction for insulting that ****er before....retrial please

I've yet to see a pro Israeli supporter finish an argument with out resorting to insults, they know they can't win!

Also, regards the old "well if they didn't vote for Hamas it wouldn't be happening..,their fault!!" Can we also use that logic regarding James Foley? He after all, voted for Obama so should his shocking death be passed off so easily because "he voted for it!"???

johnnyskeleton · 22-08-2014 09:55AM

Playboy wrote: »

I linked to a video of Noam Chomsky in May of this year earlier in this thread. He specifically discusses this 'right to exist' issue and what crock of ****e it is. It is only Israel who requires this acknowledgement. No state has a right to exist, we can recognize that a states exists but why should it have a right to exist? By admitting that Israel has a right to exist the Palestinians are basically accepting that Israel were justified in their dispossession of the Palestinians, who on earth in their right mind would recognize that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEpn68BZIOY&safety_mode=true&persist_safety_mode=1

Thats all very clever wordplay but the concept of israels right to exist stems from its creation when nonr of its immediate neighbours officially recognised it as a state. Now they nearly all do so it has become less important an issue. The same terminology is used with hamas although its somewhat incorrect to do so because while hamas officially do not recognise israel their agreement to be part of a unity government under fatah was an implicit recognition.

Recognising israels right to exist does not mean accepting the current land boundaries, thr illegal settlements or that the rght to return has been waived - far from it. It is a simple recognition that a state of israel should be allowed to exist in the middle east, nothing more nothing less.

johnnyskeleton · 22-08-2014 10:17AM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

You support Palestine, you support Hamas, ergo, you support terror.

What if, as i do, you sympathise with Abbas who had been doing so well to get as close to peace as we have ever seen in the middle east, only for hamas and likud to realise it is in neither of their interests for this to happen and then allowing themselves be drawn into a pointless war. Does that make me pro-palestinian, anti-israeli or a supporter of terror?

As it happens, i dislike intensley the idea that you pick a side and support it, as though Israel and Palestine were Utd and City. Both sides have done right and wrong in different measures, the most important thing is peace, which is why the leaked papers, if accurate, are most disheartening. Still, i think the next step is for the nations of the world to recognise the palestinian authority as a soverign state and to be allowed participate as a full UN member state.

Oh and don't make the mistake of not living in a terror zone. If Israel falls to extreme Islam, we may all too soon live in a war zone.

Are hamas extreme islamists? I was under the impression that they werent - isis, for example, considers them apostates because they are more concerned with nationalism than with islam. Would be interested to read more about their religious position if you have any links.

o1s1n · 22-08-2014 10:18AM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Yeah, and Hamas are so ineffectual that their rockets make potholes in the street rofl. As I said, if the IRA, twenty years ago, could destroy the city centre of Manchester with a bomb in a fúcking lorry, how backward do Hamas have to be to only be able to create potholes? Ahahaha... maybe Hamas did their training here given the whole country is full of potholes lol. The problem with your lot is that you've been listening to too much guff from the lunatics that run the pro-Palestinian groups. You make it sound like Hamas are like bold kids. First their rockets are like Catherine Wheels, now they are so ineffectual that they only create potholes in the street anyway :rolleyes:.

So using your own comparisons and logic, do you think the UK should have dropped a few 1000lb bombs on densely populated areas in the north after that particular IRA bombing?

Tuisceanch · 22-08-2014 10:43AM

old_aussie wrote: »

Knock Knock

Who's there

Israel

http://media.essentialbaby.com.au/news/world-news/watch-the-israeli-knock-on-the-door-tactic-5594473.html?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Outbrain_cpc

old_aussie wrote: »

Just pointing out a fact.

Sorry. I have obviously misunderstood the motivation of your post.

Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August