Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

1…151152154156157…174

Comments

  • #4592
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    And with that kind of willingness for dialogue, its no wonder the world is in the mess it is. Tell me, do you behave like that with all people who disagree with you about anything, or is it only with regards to Palestine?

    I offered you an opportunity to debate the rise of anti-semitism and you wrongly accused me of being a supporter of Hamas and you didn't have the manners to excuse yourself. You then continued to hurl unfounded accusations at all and sundry and dismiss any links which provide substance to the debate. You are the one, remember, who entered the debate by shouting 'Up the IDF'. IS this how you consider a debate should be conducted?. You subsequently raised spurious and meaningless similes to attack your opponents when these are only conjectures of your own mind. Is this supposed to be somehow interesting and informative or shouldn't I feel that it is better to engage with people, like I do always, who listen,consider and then respond rather than people who don't listen and just shout at the top of their voices all the unresolved issues they have in their head?


  • #4593
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    No, I quite clearly said that the IRA did not want to wipe out the state of the UK nor carry genocide to its people.

    And if people think that a group that has, as its central aim, the destruction of the state of Israel and genocide of the Jews, is not trying to do that every time it attacks Israel then they are blinkered.

    Have you ever seen a Palestinian rocket? They are no more than glorified fireworks and if one landed on your road tomorrow you would think to yourself "Oh look another pothole". You really should look up and research things before posting embarrassing stuff like that.


  • #4594
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    No, I quite clearly said that the IRA did not want to wipe out the state of the UK nor carry genocide to its people.

    They wanted to wipe out Northen Ireland actually, which is one of the countries making up the UK.
    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    And if people think that a group that has, as its central aim, the destruction of the state of Israel and genocide of the Jews, is not trying to do that every time it attacks Israel then they are blinkered.

    Same goal of Zionism, which they have been carrying out decades before Hamas even existed. Hamas only came into existence in the 1980's, and Zionism predates Hamas by nearly a 100 years.

    Hamas exist due Zionist attempted destruction of the Palestinians nation, and the actual destruction of there home land, via ethnic cleansing and terror, and the decades of oppressive occupation, all for the stated Zionist goal of a greater Israel. The genocidal tactics of Zionism are reminiscent of the same tactics used against Native American's.


  • #4595
    nelly17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭nelly17


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    Was someone interested in discussing the rise of anti-semitism or did I misread that?

    Now theres a phrase that bandied about quite a bit, because someone is pro Civil Rights or Pro Human Rights or indeed pro Human Dignity it does not automatically make them an Anti-Semite because we are referring to a particular region of the world.


  • #4596
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »

    It is highly ironic though, how many people claim to care about Palestine and Hamas but left their compatriots to rot in the six counties. This pro-Palestine craze is just the latest vogue, the latest badge-wearing club. I very much doubt any of the pro-Palestinians on this board gave two hoots about Palestine last year and I very much doubt they will next year. Its just the latest sheep flock argument.

    My relations aren't rotting in Northern Ireland. They live there and made the best of the situation as did my grand father before he was obliged to leave his job in Belfast after partition. I get that you're were born in England of Irish descent? but don't think for one minute you're an authority on the subject or you are entitled to slur others because of your own issues and misconceptions. I,myself,am half english so don't think somehow you're unique and special.


  • Advertisement
  • #4597
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    nelly17 wrote: »
    Now theres a phrase that bandied about quite a bit, because someone is pro Civil Rights or Pro Human Rights or indeed pro Human Dignity it does not automatically make them an Anti-Semite because we are referring to a particular region of the world.

    Sorry you'll need to read back to understand the context of my post and to whom it was addressed. It's difficult having to always correct people's misconceptions because they don't read the thread. Come back and talk when you've clarified the situation.


  • #4598
    nelly17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭nelly17


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    Sorry you'll need to read back to understand the context of my post and to whom it was addressed. It's difficult having to always correct people's misconceptions because they don't read the thread. Come back and talk when you've clarified the situation.
    Fair enough


  • #4599
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    Debate? That's a laugh. Anyone who puts anything remotely pro-Israeli up gets pooh-poohed by you and you want to talk about debating?

    If you support Palestine in this conflict, which has been created and led by Hamas, then you are, ergo, pro-Hamas. You can't not be. Its like claiming to be pro-German in 1939 but not pro-Nazi. And you talk about the intellect and capacity of others. You haven't added anything to this conversation.


    I provided you with a link pointing to a survey conducted in December of 2013 about the rise of anti-semitism and highlighted a number of the points raised and provided the context for why I had posted the link in the first place.This was a civil way of addressing your grievance that was contained in your lengthy post that nobody was discussing this issue. You then chose not to engage but rather slur me. That's an example of irony! n'est-ce pas. When other posters drew your attention to the 'Palestine Papers' you dismissed them out of hand because they had being reference in a paper which you don't hold in high esteem because it doesn't meet your high standards. In the above quote you seem oblivious to the fact that there were dissident groups in Germany who opposed the Nazis and also dissidents abroad who against the Nazis but they didn't consider themselves opposed to the German nation. Therefore your contribution to my attempts to debate where ones of evasion,distortion,slurs and spurious similes.Your conclusion then was to suggest that you were a man with a heavy heart who wanted to debate honestly and civilly. You just don't seem to get the irony of your stance. I suspect that you have a debating style which is easily perturbed when confronted with logic,reason and substance and that as a fail safe strategy you seem to resort to ad hominen attacks. Maybe this is unfair and you might consider the matter and provide a better account of yourself and engage with the subject you stated you wished to discuss.


  • #4600
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Irish times
    The scale and nature of the Israeli assault on Gaza – destroying every piece of basic infrastructure available and predictably inflicting civilian deaths on a grand scale – has resulted not from extreme belligerence towards Palestinians but from a settled strategy Israeli leaders hope will soon be adopted (insofar as it has not been adopted already) by western powers in prosecution of the “war on terror”. On this reading, the repeated massacres cannot be put down to soldiers and air crews following irresponsible orders (or being the worst shots in the world). The devastation is coldly deliberate.


  • #4601
    Ignorant etc.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ignorant etc.


    To be honest, this thread adds about as much hope for peace in the Middle East as Ian Paisley did in Ireland. Its populated by extremist anti-semite types who prattle on about Palestine's right to self-determination yet have absolutely no regard for Israel's right to exist.

    I will finish with this newsflash though. Hamas wants a Jewish genocide, its charter says so. You can paint it how you like but Hamas is the only organisation in this conflict that wants genocide of any form. Those who claim Israel is carrying out genocide in Palestine are silly and pathetic. After all, the population of Palestine keeps going up year on year, so if Israel has any intention on genocide it must be pretty sh1t at it.


  • Advertisement
  • #4602
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    Assuming you are correct, does a preemptive strike against a civilian population seem like a proportional response to a thought crime?


  • #4603
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    To be honest, this thread adds about as much hope for peace in the Middle East as Ian Paisley did in Ireland. Its populated by extremist anti-semite types who prattle on about Palestine's right to self-determination yet have absolutely no regard for Israel's right to exist.

    I will finish with this newsflash though. Hamas wants a Jewish genocide, its charter says so. You can paint it how you like but Hamas is the only organisation in this conflict that wants genocide of any form. Those who claim Israel is carrying out genocide in Palestine are silly and pathetic. After all, the population of Palestine keeps going up year on year, so if Israel has any intention on genocide it must be pretty sh1t at it.

    Well all you do is state what you feel is the case when there is plenty of evidence to contradict your viewpoint and calling people anti-semites only makes you look insincere and extremely biased. If you can't support your claims and can't be civil then why are you here? Can you cite one example for instance of where i stated that Israel didn't have a right to exist and given that I've drawn attention to the many Jewish groups and intellectuals who are opposed to the Israeli government then do you consider anybody that criticizes Israeli policy anti-semitic? Again I refer you back to the link I initially posted. If you are sincere then engage or else accept that it is you who is unwilling to engage in a civil manner.


  • #4604
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    To be honest, this thread adds about as much hope for peace in the Middle East as Ian Paisley did in Ireland. Its populated by extremist anti-semite types who prattle on about Palestine's right to self-determination yet have absolutely no regard for Israel's right to exist.

    I will finish with this newsflash though. Hamas wants a Jewish genocide, its charter says so. You can paint it how you like but Hamas is the only organisation in this conflict that wants genocide of any form. Those who claim Israel is carrying out genocide in Palestine are silly and pathetic. After all, the population of Palestine keeps going up year on year, so if Israel has any intention on genocide it must be pretty sh1t at it.

    Sigh

    Pro Palestinian does not = anti semite.

    Keep waffling though you're good for a laugh if nothing else.


  • #4605
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    To be honest, this thread adds about as much hope for peace in the Middle East as Ian Paisley did in Ireland. Its populated by extremist anti-semite types who prattle on about Palestine's right to self-determination yet have absolutely no regard for Israel's right to exist.

    I will finish with this newsflash though. Hamas wants a Jewish genocide, its charter says so. You can paint it how you like but Hamas is the only organisation in this conflict that wants genocide of any form. Those who claim Israel is carrying out genocide in Palestine are silly and pathetic. After all, the population of Palestine keeps going up year on year, so if Israel has any intention on genocide it must be pretty sh1t at it.

    I linked to a video of Noam Chomsky in May of this year earlier in this thread. He specifically discusses this 'right to exist' issue and what crock of ****e it is. It is only Israel who requires this acknowledgement. No state has a right to exist, we can recognize that a states exists but why should it have a right to exist? By admitting that Israel has a right to exist the Palestinians are basically accepting that Israel were justified in their dispossession of the Palestinians, who on earth in their right mind would recognize that?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEpn68BZIOY&safety_mode=true&persist_safety_mode=1


  • #4606
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »

    I will finish with this newsflash though. Hamas Israel wants a Jewish Palestinian genocide, its actions says so

    FYP


  • #4607
    Ignorant etc.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ignorant etc.


    How am I not being civil? Because I don't support Hamas. I've been called everything under the sun and yet when I respond I'm told I'm not being civil. The fact is you make outlandish claims about an Israeli genocide on Palestinians yet can't even back up that statement. It took Hitler, what, less than twelve years to wipe out most of the Jews in Europe and in 64 years the Israelis have made such little progress with their "genocide" that the Palestinian population that it is higher than it has ever been. How sh1t at genocide do you have for that kind of result after 64 years?


  • #4608
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    Well all you do is state what you feel is the case when there is plenty of evidence to contradict your viewpoint and calling people anti-semites only makes you look insincere and extremely biased. If you can't support your claims and can't be civil then why are you here? Can you cite one example for instance of where i stated that Israel didn't have a right to exist and given that I've drawn attention to the many Jewish groups and intellectuals who are opposed to the Israeli government then do you consider anybody that criticizes Israeli policy anti-semitic? Again I refer you back to the link I initially posted. If you are sincere then engage or else accept that it is you who is unwilling to engage in a civil manner.
    bumper234 wrote: »
    Sigh

    Pro Palestinian does not = anti semite.

    Keep waffling though you're good for a laugh if nothing else.
    Playboy wrote: »
    I linked to a video of Noam Chomsky in May of this year earlier in this thread. He specifically discusses this 'right to exist' issue and what crock of ****e it is. It is only Israel who requires this acknowledgement. No state has a right to exist, we can recognize that a states exists but why should it have a right to exist? By admitting that Israel has a right to exist the Palestinians are basically accepting that Israel were justified in their dispossession of the Palestinians, who on earth in their right mind would recognize that?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEpn68BZIOY&safety_mode=true&persist_safety_mode=1
    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    My relations aren't rotting in Northern Ireland. They live there and made the best of the situation as did my grand father before he was obliged to leave his job in Belfast after partition. I get that you're were born in England of Irish descent? but don't think for one minute you're an authority on the subject or you are entitled to slur others because of your own issues and misconceptions. I,myself,am half english so don't think somehow you're unique and special.


    Also do you care to respond your slur about people ignoring the plight of catholics in Northern Ireland or do you wish to retract it or conveniently forget you said it?


  • #4609
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    How am I not being civil? Because I don't support Hamas. I've been called everything under the sun and yet when I respond I'm told I'm not being civil. The fact is you make outlandish claims about an Israeli genocide on Palestinians yet can't even back up that statement. It took Hitler, what, less than twelve years to wipe out most of the Jews in Europe and in 64 years the Israelis have made such little progress with their "genocide" that the Palestinian population that it is higher than it has ever been. How sh1t at genocide do you have for that kind of result after 64 years?

    Yet you have no.problem with resorting to petty name calling when it suits you :rolleyes:


  • #4610
    Ignorant etc.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ignorant etc.


    The better laugh is this idea of an Israeli caused genocide when the population of Palestine goes up year on year. As that's the case, before I leave this thread, can we agree on the fact that Israel must be pretty sh1t at genocide if its failed to leave a mark after 64 years?


  • #4611
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    How am I not being civil? Because I don't support Hamas. I've been called everything under the sun and yet when I respond I'm told I'm not being civil. The fact is you make outlandish claims about an Israeli genocide on Palestinians yet can't even back up that statement. It took Hitler, what, less than twelve years to wipe out most of the Jews in Europe and in 64 years the Israelis have made such little progress with their "genocide" that the Palestinian population that it is higher than it has ever been. How sh1t at genocide do you have for that kind of result after 64 years?

    Well I don't support Hamas so please apologise for that slur. ANd who are you referring to when you claim people are making outlandish claims. SInce Israeli ministers have made the same claim then how is it outlandish.Also why besmirch the memory of the victims of the holocaust by equating them as being with Israeli government policy.


  • Advertisement
  • #4612
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    The better laugh is this idea of an Israeli caused genocide when the population of Palestine goes up year on year. As that's the case, before I leave this thread, can we agree on the fact that Israel must be pretty sh1t at genocide if its failed to leave a mark after 64 years?

    Tell that to the parents of the innocent children that the IDF keep.murdering.


  • #4613
    dav3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    ...

    It's difficult to take anything you say seriously after your quotes below.
    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    You can't support Palestine without supporting Hamas...those who support Palestine, in this present conflict, support Hamas and are seriously delusional...For Hamas, read ISIS. For ISIS, read Hamas.
    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    Up the IDF!
    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    IDF, best army in the world! May the IDF always be there to protect the good people of Israel from terrorist onslaught. IDF, I salute you!
    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    Yyyyeeeeaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh baby!
    The I, the I, the IDF!

    I don't think you have any intention of engaging in a debate. I believe you're here only to rant and to get a few things off your chest.

    Could you clarify what you meant below?
    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    Sorry pal, but I think I probably know the Israeli situation far better than you do...I know the Yesha situation inside out

    I think it is clear you have strong connections to the IDF and being Jewish is nothing to be ashamed of.

    I do feel however that this has clouded your judgement on the situation.


  • #4614
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    The better laugh is this idea of an Israeli caused genocide when the population of Palestine goes up year on year. As that's the case, before I leave this thread, can we agree on the fact that Israel must be pretty sh1t at genocide if its failed to leave a mark after 64 years?

    What about your slur about ignoring the plight of catholics in Northern Ireland. Some of us come from there and might perceive your arrogance as deeply offensive!!!


  • #4615
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    The better laugh is this idea of an Israeli caused genocide when the population of Palestine goes up year on year. As that's the case, before I leave this thread, can we agree on the fact that Israel must be pretty sh1t at genocide if its failed to leave a mark after 64 years?


    Is that the issue you want to debate now. Ok off you go.


  • #4616
    Ignorant etc.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ignorant etc.


    No, I stand by my statement that people in the south abandoned their compatriots in the north because its true.

    To my good friend who says he understands I was born in England. Again, you're showing your ignorance by terming the whole of the UK England. I said I was born in the UK not that I was born in England.

    However, in terms of your whole pro-Palestine argument, before I go, can we all agree that your argument is based on an elaborate lie. Surely even you realise that if after 64 years, Israel has made such little progress in its "genocide crusade" that either Israel must be terribly sh1t at genocide or that you're all lieing?


  • #4617
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Playboy wrote: »
    I linked to a video of Noam Chomsky in May of this year earlier in this thread. He specifically discusses this 'right to exist' issue and what crock of ****e it is. It is only Israel who requires this acknowledgement. No state has a right to exist, we can recognize that a states exists but why should it have a right to exist? By admitting that Israel has a right to exist the Palestinians are basically accepting that Israel were justified in their dispossession of the Palestinians, who on earth in their right mind would recognize that?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEpn68BZIOY&safety_mode=true&persist_safety_mode=1
    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    The better laugh is this idea of an Israeli caused genocide when the population of Palestine goes up year on year. As that's the case, before I leave this thread, can we agree on the fact that Israel must be pretty sh1t at genocide if its failed to leave a mark after 64 years?

    Did you watch the above video or are you more inclined to dismiss him with the pejorative term of 'Gnome Chomsky'. Are you inclined to examine the issue in detail and debate the specifics and accept that it can't always be reduced to simplistic mantras?


  • #4618
    Ignorant etc.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ignorant etc.


    RustyNut wrote: »
    FYP

    As I said, if Israel wants a Palestinian genocide, why has it made such little progress in 64 years? You're lieing, aren't you?


  • #4619
    Ignorant etc.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ignorant etc.


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    Is that the issue you want to debate now. Ok off you go.

    Ah no come back now the whole concept of "genocide" committed by Israel is exposed as an elaborate hoax?


  • #4620
    Ignorant etc.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ignorant etc.


    dav3 wrote: »
    It's difficult to take anything you say seriously after your quotes below.









    I don't think you have any intention of engaging in a debate. I believe you're here only to rant and to get a few things off your chest.

    Could you clarify what you meant below?



    I think it is clear you have strong connections to the IDF and being Jewish is nothing to be ashamed of.

    I do feel however that this has clouded your judgement on the situation.

    Ahahahahaha are you serious? Just because I take a pro-Israeli stance then I must be Jewish. So to take a pro-Israeli stance, I must be Jewish? Isn't that a little anti-semitic seeing as you admit to being against Israel you must therefore be against Jews because only Jews support Israel :rolleyes:. Thanks for telling me not to be ashamed of something I'm not though, very kind.


  • Advertisement
  • #4621
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Ignorant etc. wrote: »
    No, I stand by my statement that people in the south abandoned their compatriots in the north because its true.

    To my good friend who says he understands I was born in England. Again, you're showing your ignorance by terming the whole of the UK England. I said I was born in the UK not that I was born in England.

    However, in terms of your whole pro-Palestine argument, before I go, can we all agree that your argument is based on an elaborate lie. Surely even you realise that if after 64 years, Israel has made such little progress in its "genocide crusade" that either Israel must be terribly sh1t at genocide or that you're all lieing?

    I questioned whether you were born in England. I didn't state it. Can't you even be honest about that? Your statement about Northern Ireland is again just arrogant and offensive. How can you talk in such absolute terms and believe that anybody would take you seriously.


Advertisement