We're number 5, we're number 5!!

seamus · 20-08-2014 01:23PM

Sala wrote: »

How is 200 cals burned in 2.5 minutes jumping jacks or running up and down stairs??

And they were kind of doing OK until then, too.

The problem is that you're trying to shoehorn a "you will burn X calories in Y minutes" into an activity which is fundamentally variable. How many stairs? How many jumping jacks? At what intensity?

I could jog up and down the stairs at a nice easy pace for 2.5 minutes, there's not way I've burned 200kcal. Likewise I could do one jumping jack every second for a grand total of 150jumps, and suddenly that's 200kcal? Eh, no.

At a guess I'm going to say that someone has put in a decimal point by accident or overlooked something key in making that infographic. 200kcal/2.5min == 4800kcal/hour. I'm not even sure if it's biologically possible to use energy at that rate.

walshb · 20-08-2014 01:24PM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

1 in 4 3 year olds being obese is not a good figure, regardless of what way you phrase it.

What figure would you look at and say "ok, that is not worrying or startling?"

And it is not obese, it is BMI not within a recommended limit. Big difference there. BMI is a recommendation. It's open to interpretation somewhat.

Mellor · 20-08-2014 01:25PM

walshb wrote: »

Being obese or small or tall or whatever is part and parcel of life for humans. Of course, in a perfect world all humans would conform to the "best" standards that we set as an intelligent and civilized society. We do not live in this fictitious world. We live in the real and natural world.

I agree.

If the figure was 2/4 or 3/4 are obese, yes, I would be worried. 1/4 or 1/5 is not worrying IMO. It's a fairly standard and decent result.

I'd disagree with this. 1 in 4 is far too high for 3 year olds. The percentage will only go up as they age.

An acceptable rate, for childern 12 and under, would be 1 in 10 imo

The 61 percent of Irish adults being "technically" overweight is a lot more startling a figure.

How are you oblivious the the link between the two?

I bet that if we had the capability to monitor/compare these figures for the past 100 years or so then we would still have something similar. 1/4 or 1/5 3 year olds are obese. And, I bet that in 100 years from now the figures would be very similar. It's called life.

Are you joking?
There's no way it was that high 100 years ago. Even 20 years ago I'd say it was nowhere near that.

This info probably exists somewhere. Or at least over a decent period.

Alf Veedersane · 20-08-2014 01:30PM

walshb wrote: »

.
There has been a significant increase in teenage obesity since 1990 with an 8-fold
increase in males (1% to 8%) and a 2-fold increase in females (3% to 6%)

While there has been an increase in comparison to other eras, it's still 80 percent 'healthy' for this age group.

In short, it's getting worse.

secondrowgal · 20-08-2014 01:34PM

Zamboni wrote: »

Now you're talking.
I'm sick to death of people telling me they eat healthy and lots of vegetables blah, blah, blah.
Spend an hour looking at the checkout counters in any supermarket in the country - that's the truth.

Supermarkets have a ratio of about 5 processed food aisles for every one fresh unadulterated produce.

I may be an outlier, but I don't buy ANY of my F&V or meat in a supermarket - I buy them in a green grocer's and butcher's shop.

Of course, I am not a fan of processed food myself either, so I wouldn't be buying fizzy drinks, TV dinners, or equivalent that often, mostly never.

However, I eat BUCKET loads of spuds and butter! I am a Carbo Queen!!

walshb · 20-08-2014 01:34PM

Mellor wrote: »

I agree.

I'd disagree with this. 1 in 4 is far too high for 3 year olds. The percentage will only go up as they age.

An acceptable rate, for childern 12 and under, would be 1 in 10 imo

How are you oblivious the the link between the two?

Are you joking?
There's no way it was that high 100 years ago. Even 20 years ago I'd say it was nowhere near that.

This info probably exists somewhere. Or at least over a decent period.

So let's see these figures and tables that gives an in-depth analysis from years gone by. Otherwise it's blanket statements and figures and guessing.

20 years ago if they did a decenet survey on 3 year olds. What approximate figure would you expect to see for the percentage of them being overweight or obese?

I am well aware of linking the 3 year old with the adults. Again, lets us visit this figure when the 3 year olds become adults. That is the key. Otherwise it's guess work.

I don't think 78 percent of 5-12 year olds being in the healthy range is a worrying figure at all. You'd like it 90 percent, fair enough.

Mellor · 20-08-2014 01:38PM

walshb wrote: »

Irish Teenagers (13-17 years)

One in five teenagers is overweight or obese (11% overweight and 8% obese)
9
.
There has been a significant increase in teenage obesity since 1990 with an 8-fold
increase in males (1% to 8%) and a 2-fold increase in females (3% to 6%)

While there has been an increase in comparison to other eras, it's still 80 percent 'healthy' for this age group.

So a dramatic increase of obesity.
So that's blows your theory that it's always been like that out of the water.

For reference;
In the US, in the 60s, 4.2 percent of 6 to 11 year olds were obese.
In 1988, it was 11.3 percent. In 2001, just over 16 percent. The last survey, from 2008, 19.6 of 6 to 11 year old kids were obese.

Note, it's obesity only, figures for overweight would be higher again.

walshb · 20-08-2014 01:44PM

Mellor wrote: »

So a dramatic increase of obesity.
So that's blows your theory that it's always been like out of the water.

For reference;
In the US, in the 60s, 4.2 percent of 6 to 11 year olds were obese.
In 1988, it was 11.3 percent. In 2001, just over 16 percent. The last survey, from 2008, 19.6 of 6 to 11 year old kids were obese.

Note, it's obesity only, figures for overweight would be higher again.

That's a teenager survey. I am asking about the 3 year olds.

ger664 · 20-08-2014 01:50PM

I agree with WalshB here, while obese children most likely turn into obese adults I would say that 100% of the parents of these children will most likely fall into the 61% of adults category. Tackling the issue in adults/teenegaers will have a bigger effect on the number of obese children we have as a percentile in the future. Diet and eating habits are taught/learnt and the biggest influences in our education are our parents.

Alf Veedersane · 20-08-2014 02:00PM

ger664 wrote: »

I agree with WalshB here, while obese children most likely turn into obese adults I would say that 100% of the parents of these children will most likely fall into the 61% of adults category. Tackling the issue in adults/teenegaers will have a bigger effect on the number of obese children we have as a percentile in the future. Diet and eating habits are taught/learnt and the biggest influences in our education are our parents.

It doesn't have to be either/or.

walshb · 20-08-2014 02:02PM

What do folks think of the 2500 calorie recommendation? Bit low? So much to consider when asking the question I suppose.

Mellor · 20-08-2014 02:15PM

ger664 wrote: »

I agree with WalshB here, while obese children most likely turn into obese adults I would say that 100% of the parents of these children will most likely fall into the 61% of adults category. Tackling the issue in adults/teenegaers will have a bigger effect on the number of obese children we have as a percentile in the future. Diet and eating habits are taught/learnt and the biggest influences in our education are our parents.

Firstly, we need to address both, not one or the other.
And nobody is suggesting we try and educate 6 year olds directly. Obvious the parents are the source if correct nutrition, that has no impact on the magnitude if the issue in children.

walshb wrote: »

What do folks think of the 2500 calorie recommendation? Bit low? So much to consider when asking the question I suppose.

It's useless in a practical sense. A 65kg frail 50 year old and a 120kg 18 year old athlete will have totally unrelated needs.

But it's most likely a typical average.

20-08-2014 02:20PM

secondrowgal wrote: »

I may be an outlier, but I don't buy ANY of my F&V or meat in a supermarket - I buy them in a green grocer's and butcher's shop.

Since I started eating properly I've been doing the same. There's always something on offer that I like and quality generally is higher. Especially with things like mince and burgers, I'm properly amazed at the difference between proper mince and the crap in a supermarket.

walshb · 20-08-2014 02:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Since I started eating properly I've been doing the same. There's always something on offer that I like and quality generally is higher. Especially with things like mince and burgers, I'm properly amazed at the difference between proper mince and the crap in a supermarket.

Horizon did a very good programme on Monday about meat and its effects on people. In a nutshell processed red meat is something to watch. Nothing we didn't know already. Natural red meat is good for us as long as we don't over indulge. They recommend 65-70 grams of red meat per day. One expert said that saturated fats isn't nearly as bad for us as we thought. It's all about moderation and balance and variation. The food pyramid is the best guide, and as far as I know it has been updated with exercise steps....

Bruno26 · 20-08-2014 03:02PM

walshb wrote: »

Horizon It's all about moderation and balance and variation. The food pyramid is the best guide, and as far as I know it has been updated with exercise steps....

The idea of a little bit of everything in moderation is rubbish. It does not work.

The food pyramid was and is a disaster. Nobody adheres to the portions and the idea that grains should form the dominant part of diet is just wrong. Take off the bottom and top layers and swap the others around. Then you have a food pyramid with correct guidelines.

Blacktie. · 20-08-2014 03:07PM

Bruno26 wrote: »

The idea of a little bit of everything in moderation is rubbish. It does not work.

The food pyramid was and is a disaster. Nobody adheres to the portions and the idea that grains should form the dominant part of diet is just wrong. Take off the bottom and top layers and swap the others around. Then you have a food pyramid with correct guidelines.

Or chop out the middle and combine the top and bottom for the happiness hat!

walshb · 20-08-2014 03:09PM

Bruno26 wrote: »

The food pyramid was and is a disaster. .

No pyramid is perfect. The current one is not a disaster.

Bruno26 · 20-08-2014 03:11PM

Blacktie. wrote: »

Or chop out the middle and combine the top and bottom for the happiness hat!

What is the relevance of your unfunny post to the thread?

Bruno26 · 20-08-2014 03:12PM

walshb wrote: »

No pyramid is perfect. The current one is not a disaster.

It is a total disaster. Since it's creation have people got slimmer?

Alf Veedersane · 20-08-2014 03:13PM

Bruno26 wrote: »

The idea of a little bit of everything in moderation is rubbish. It does not work.

The food pyramid was and is a disaster. Nobody adheres to the portions and the idea that grains should form the dominant part of diet is just wrong. Take off the bottom and top layers and swap the others around. Then you have a food pyramid with correct guidelines.

It's mainly a disaster because of the fact that no one adheres to the portions.

If you did follow the portions it is possible to be healthy.

The reason that the 'little bit of everything in moderation' doesn't work is because people overdo the 'little' and the 'moderation' parts.

Blacktie. · 20-08-2014 03:21PM

Bruno26 wrote: »

What is the relevance of your unfunny post to the thread?

Entertainment.

Vet Thrower · 20-08-2014 03:24PM

25% of 3 year olds are obese? I find this very hard to believe.

I have 3 children aged under 6. Through them, I have come across an awful lot of 3 year olds over the past few years, and I have yet to see one who was obese.

Blacktie. · 20-08-2014 03:34PM

Vet Thrower wrote: »

25% of 3 year olds are obese? I find this very hard to believe.

I have 3 children aged under 6. Through them, I have come across an awful lot of 3 year olds over the past few years, and I have yet to see one who was obese.

Depends on what you consider obese to be and what it looks like on 3 year olds. What people consider to be average and acceptable now is overweight for instance. Not talking about 3 year olds here but people in there 20's and 30's mainly.

kevpants · 20-08-2014 03:36PM

Luckily we in the online fitness community burn off enough calories getting up and down off our high horses to negate this.

A few observations:

- Blaming the food pyramid? Ask anyone currently queuing in a McDonalds drive thru to draw you the food pyramid. If everyone cared enough to study the food pyramid and then stuck to it they'd be fine.

- Veg is expensive. So if fruit. When you have kids, the amount of money you spend making them healthy dinners is staggering. It is infinitely cheaper to buy them crap food and we have a problem with people hovering just above the poverty line.

- Pints. Does this include alcohol?

Some positives:

- Dublin Bike Scheme, there's a rack outside my office that literally never has a free bike in it
-Triathlon/Adventure run culture in workplaces. So annoying, so healthy.
-The amount of obese runners you'll see on the roads in the evening. Hahaha look at fatty improving his/her quality of life.
- Gym culture. Brahs, so many brahs.

My point is in middle class society we're in pretty good shape. We have a serious issue with poorer communities. The aren't educated, they are completely disenfranchised from what we would see as functioning Irish society, anti-social behaviour/domestic abuse/dysfunctional families/mental illness absolutely abound.

Thank god we pay them just about enough dole to keep them alive and relatively quiet whilst allowing them buy lucozade and McCain Micro-fries for their kids so we can roll our eyes at them.

walshb · 20-08-2014 03:42PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's mainly a disaster because of the fact that no one adheres to the portions.
.

Agreed

It is nothing to do with the pyramid. It sets and advises. If people don't adhere then that is their issue. It's not an exact science. It's a structured and thought out approach for a world population.

Switching the groupings is a personal issue. Doesn't make the current WHO table a disaster.

walshb · 20-08-2014 03:46PM

Vet Thrower wrote: »

25% of 3 year olds are obese? I find this very hard to believe.

I have 3 children aged under 6. Through them, I have come across an awful lot of 3 year olds over the past few years, and I have yet to see one who was obese.

It's one in four obese OR overweight. Not one in four obese. BMI 30 or above equals obese as far as I know.

How can you know what is obese from just sight? Anyway, there are all kinds of 3 year olds. Some fatter and some thinner and some taller etc. They're 3. They have a chance in life, but more importantly, their parents have a real chance to guide and help them. Parents can rally restrict their intake if they feel that they child is gaining weight that looks unnatural or unhealthy.

According to the latest population figures: 624 million people under age 5 in the world. Approx 40 million are obese. Huge figure, but not percentage.

Bruno26 · 20-08-2014 03:49PM

kevpants wrote: »

Luckily we in the online fitness community burn off enough calories getting up and down off our high horses to negate this.

A few observations:

- Blaming the food pyramid? Ask anyone currently queuing in a McDonalds drive thru to draw you the food pyramid. If everyone cared enough to study the food pyramid and then stuck to it they'd be fine.

- Veg is expensive. So if fruit. When you have kids, the amount of money you spend making them healthy dinners is staggering. It is infinitely cheaper to buy them crap food and we have a problem with people hovering just above the poverty line.

- Pints. Does this include alcohol?

Some positives:

- Dublin Bike Scheme, there's a rack outside my office that literally never has a free bike in it
-Triathlon/Adventure run culture in workplaces. So annoying, so healthy.
-The amount of obese runners you'll see on the roads in the evening. Hahaha look at fatty improving his/her quality of life.
- Gym culture. Brahs, so many brahs.

My point is in middle class society we're in pretty good shape. We have a serious issue with poorer communities. The aren't educated, they are completely disenfranchised from what we would see as functioning Irish society, anti-social behaviour/domestic abuse/dysfunctional families/mental illness absolutely abound.

Thank god we pay them just about enough dole to keep them alive and relatively quiet whilst allowing them buy lucozade and McCain Micro-fries for their kids so we can roll our eyes at them.

Anyone who has gone through school in the last 20 years is aware of the food pyramid. Study it or not - nobody sticks to it therefore it does not work. It's only a small part of the problem.

Veg is not expensive. Make a couple of pots of something twice a week- there's your dinner for everyone for the week sorted. Laziness and being unable or not attempting to cook is the reason you are looking for.

Convenience, lack of time excuse, laziness, giant supermarkets, lack of knowledge are the issue.

Your positives are great but they are all about exercise. The fat people can run but if they eat crap they will still be fat. Nobody should need to exercise to maintain a healthy weight. It can all be done through nutrition. You cannot out run a bad diet.

rubadub · 20-08-2014 03:55PM

With kids you have to bear in mind the BMI charts are far more complex.

Kids have gotten bigger over the years, developing faster. Its very rare for me to hear someone comment on a child being small for their age, its quite common for people to be surprised a child is so large for their age. And this is not just people making a child feel good saying "aren't you a big boy".

Look at this chart

So a boy of 10 with BMI of 23 is deemed to be obese, and at the 15 year old is fine.

Now say this chart was developed 100 years ago, now say 100 years on the typical 10 year old has the build of what a typical 15 year old did back then. Then using that chart is incorrect, the goal posts need to shift accordingly.

You can see the 15 year old & 20 year old are quite differnent, no doubt accounting for an expected increase in muscularity & frame size. Also you can see the graph goes up at the start. I think this is due to the high % of weight being due to the relatively large head on babies.

Charts for adults need to consider changes too, some organisations give Asian people have a different chart. The average height is changing too, the typical 6foot man nowadays is probably a larger frame than a 6ft man 100 years ago, who may have been more lanky on average so so would typically have had a higher % of fat if they were the same weight.

People often say it does not apply to bodybuilders. But as lifting weights has become more popular then general studies are going to include more muscular men which may skew the average in future research.

walshb · 20-08-2014 03:55PM

Bruno26 wrote: »

Anyone who has gone through school in the last 20 years is aware of the food pyramid. Study it or not - nobody sticks to it therefore it does not work. It's only a small part of the problem.

.

Nobody sticks to it could be the case/excuse for any pyramid or brilliant suggestion given that sees people still being overweight.

There is nothing wrong with the WHO food pyramid. It's a guide. It's not perfect. Adhering to it is the key.

MaceFace · 20-08-2014 03:57PM

I have to say that never in my life have I gone shopping or planned what to eat based on the food pyramid. Something tells me I'm not alone.

Fact is that people buy what is easy, cheap, looks and taste's good. All influenced by what they were brought up eating, and what big business pushes at us.

Anyone who has kids knows how difficult it is to get them to eat healthy. I can put all the veg or salad on a plate for my kids and not let them leave the table until they are done. An hour later, I'll give in, let them leave the table hungry and they don't get fed.
If I put a salmon darne in front of them they would probably cry.

We're number 5, we're number 5!!

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