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French politician angered by veiled Muslim at beach

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Comments

  • #32
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jimgoose wrote: »
    We'll see what the non-spineless people of La Belle France think in due course.


    Well obviously some French people have no problem with it.

    What's this "non-spineless people" thing?


  • #33
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,562 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    What is French culture (or indeed Irish culture for that matter)?

    As an Irish person, I feel I differ a huge amount culturally to lots of other Irish people. I'm not a big fan of Irish sports, have absolutely no association with Catholicism, the food I eat is for the most part asian, I don't see the pub as a mainstay of my social life and I'm fine with people wearing veils/masks if they so choose. If an immigrant chooses to do exactly what I do, surely they're following Irish culture? Or is my culture not Irish?


  • #34
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


  • #35
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    HurtLocker wrote: »
    Well I cant wear a motorcycle helmet or balaclava into a bank, restaurant or supermarket. If I wore a balaclava on a public street or a motorcycle helmet with no bike in sight Id have the gards out to me. The key to a democracy is everyone is treated equally not one segment given exemptions from our social norms due to their social norms back home and their religion. Of course I dont care about having other cultures within our society as we are anation of immigrants ourself but being allowed to cover ones face making oneself anonymous is really up to each country to decide whether they wish to accept this. Try and enter a bank here wearing a face cover for non religious reasons and see how far you get. Secular society should treat every individual the same regardless of background or culture period.

    Edit: I presume we are talking about the full face (burka) cover and not the hijab.

    The whole veil ban is rubbish. It's purely to demonise and subjugate Muslims. The excuse given is that France is secular yet I haven't heard any cases of crucifixes being yanked off christians or skullcaps being banned on Jews or turbans being outlawed. And if you want to go down the farcical security route then outlaw sunglasses, women with big floppy hats, outlaw everything that obscures your identity. And even then, who has the right to see my face. It's my fcuking face, I can hide it if I wish.
    Stupid French racist cow who has nothing better to do than vilify some girl at a beach whose culture preaches modesty.


  • #36
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    HurtLocker wrote: »
    Well I cant wear a motorcycle helmet or balaclava into a bank, restaurant or supermarket. If I wore a balaclava on a public street or a motorcycle helmet with no bike in sight Id have the gards out to me. The key to a democracy is everyone is treated equally not one segment given exemptions from our social norms due to their social norms back home and their religion. Of course I dont care about having other cultures within our society as we are anation of immigrants ourself but being allowed to cover ones face making oneself anonymous is really up to each country to decide whether they wish to accept this. Try and enter a bank here wearing a face cover for non religious reasons and see how far you get. Secular society should treat every individual the same regardless of background or culture period.

    Edit: I presume we are talking about the full face (burka) cover and not the hijab.

    The French have actually banned a simple head scarf if it covers the ears and neck.


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  • #37
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,063 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Why go a beach and wear a veil? Seems kind of pointless


  • #38
    Packrat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭Packrat


    pickarooney wrote: »
    except for the freedom of women born in France to wear veils, naturally

    Lol at all the 'right on' people thanking this tripe. Wonder how you'll feel in the not so far off day when we have our own "Irish" suicide bombers exploding outside 'Trinners'
    El Weirdo wrote: »
    And what about French women who wish to wear a burqa?

    Simples: The law in France says that they can't. There are a couple of hundred countries where the law either doesent have an opinion, or mandates burkas. Plenty of room in one of those countries, which I assume was the point of that law. I'd support a similar law here.

    Eta: Looking at the poll results so far, it appears most people agree.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • #39
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    jimgoose wrote: »
    I actually am a xenophobic, right-wing asshole, and sometimes we are needed. And quit claiming monopoly on Righteousness! :)

    You could argue that xenophobic right-wing people who are educated and intelligent may be needed, but such people tend to be extremly rare indeed. And even then, their arguements are easily picked apart.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #40
    handlemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Egginacup wrote: »
    The whole veil ban is rubbish. It's purely to demonise and subjugate Muslims. The excuse given is that France is secular yet I haven't heard any cases of crucifixes being yanked off christians or skullcaps being banned on Jews or turbans being outlawed. And if you want to go down the farcical security route then outlaw sunglasses, women with big floppy hats, outlaw everything that obscures your identity. And even then, who has the right to see my face. It's my fcuking face, I can hide it if I wish.
    Stupid French racist cow who has nothing better to do than vilify some girl at a beach whose culture preaches modesty.

    Check you on this relgious imblem s are banned in public building s in france


  • #41
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Packrat wrote: »
    Lol at all the 'right on' people thanking this tripe. Wonder how you'll feel in the not so far off day when we have our own "Irish" suicide bombers exploding outside 'Trinners'
    Just because a person doesn't agree with the veil being banned, doesn't mean they're also ok with suicide bombers.
    Any muslim customs that harm people should obviously be banned, but the veil, while imbued with vile ideology, is just a garment. Criticise it, yes - it deserves a lot of criticism, but banning the wearing of a garment is what happens in repressive countries - France should be above that.


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  • #42
    dirtyden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,742 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    Its a pretty repressive law for a country that once preached liberty, fraternity and equality.


  • #43
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    dirtyden wrote: »
    Its a pretty repressive law for a country that once preached liberty, fraternity and equality.


    Sarkozy was losing votes to the far right at the time. Then all of a sudden he has an idea about banning these things, despite the fact that only around 2,000 women wear it, from a muslim population of 5 - 6 million.


  • #44
    wendell borton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭wendell borton


    There's currently a fad in China where women are wearing balaclavas to the beach.


  • #45
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,132 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Wear veils. No problem.

    Wear the total cover face thing with only eyes showing...big problem

    Why?... Well covering the head was a big thing for Catholics.. No longer the case.

    But what the heck, it was only a hat or a scarf.

    But not showing your face except for your eyes....

    No thanks. It's not part of our culture. So it's unusual. And weird. And strange.

    Ban it. Here now.


  • #46
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,132 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    dirtyden wrote: »
    Its a pretty repressive law for a country that once preached liberty, fraternity and equality.

    There are plenty of Muslim countries these fanatics can go to live as they wish. Burkas and all.

    But no... They want to impose their wishes on non Muslim cultures.

    I'm sure I would be welcomed if I went onto a beach in Saudi in a bikini. Not ever.

    why are we pandering to their wishes here and elsewhere?

    We need to grow a pair. Really.


  • #47
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    There are plenty of Muslim countries these fanatics can go to live as they wish. Burkas and all.

    But no... They want to impose their wishes on non Muslim cultures.

    I'm sure I would be welcomed if I went onto a beach in Saudi in a bikini. Not ever.

    why are we pandering to their wishes here and elsewhere?

    We need to grow a pair. Really.


    Do us a favour, and explain to me where the 'imposing their wishes on non Muslim cultures' comes into this.


  • #48
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,132 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Nodin wrote: »
    Do us a favour, and explain to me where the 'imposing their wishes on non Muslim cultures' comes into this.

    Well. Can I wear a bikini in Saudi Arabia? NO.

    Can a Muslim wear a horrible Burka here? YES.

    Should be a quid pro quo at least.


  • #49
    Rory Deafening Harp
    Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Rory Deafening Harp


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Well. Can I wear a bikini in Saudi Arabia? NO.

    Can a Muslim wear a horrible Burka here? YES.

    Should be a quid pro quo at least.

    Yeah let's show them how bad repression is by repressing them

    Wat

    (also yes you can
    http://www.expatwoman.com/saudiarabia/monthly_saudiarabia_out_about_Beaches_in_saudiarabia_11687.aspx
    )


    If a woman wants to wear a headscarf on a beach let her. If she doesn't want to swim so what! It's not like they don't have burkini swimsuits if she actually wanted to go in the water.
    Jaysus

    I might wear a flipping headscarf on a beach, stop sunstroke ...


  • #50
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Well. Can I wear a bikini in Saudi Arabia? NO.

    Can a Muslim wear a horrible Burka here? YES.

    Should be a quid pro quo at least.

    Only a small number of the worlds muslims are from Saudi Arabia.

    Why should we base our laws for attire on what a seemingly randomly chosen country does or does not do?

    And again - explain to me where the 'imposing their wishes on non Muslim cultures' comes into this.


  • #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    There are plenty of Muslim countries these fanatics can go to live as they wish. Burkas and all.

    But no... They want to impose their wishes on non Muslim cultures.

    I'm sure I would be welcomed if I went onto a beach in Saudi in a bikini. Not ever.

    why are we pandering to their wishes here and elsewhere?

    We need to grow a pair. Really.

    There's an Irish woman, lived in the town I'm from all her life, wears the full burqa. Which of the "Muslim countries" would you send her off to?


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  • #52
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There's an Irish woman, lived in the town I'm from all her life, wears the full burqa. Which of the "Muslim countries" would you send her off to?


    Dundalk.


  • #53
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,132 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Nodin wrote: »
    Only a small number of the worlds muslims are from Saudi Arabia.

    Why should we base our laws for attire on what a seemingly randomly chosen country does or does not do?

    And again - explain to me where the 'imposing their wishes on non Muslim cultures' comes into this.

    It's a cultural thing, and a secular thing too..And you know that.

    France have got it right. Fair play to them.

    No one knows what religion anyone is there. And that is how it should be.

    One's religion is a personal, not a public thing.

    If someone persists in donning full figure covering for religion, well, that is imposing their wishes on mine. I like to see a face.

    Point me to any other religion/sect that does that.


  • #54
    Rory Deafening Harp
    Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Rory Deafening Harp


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    If someone persists in donning full figure covering for religion, well, that is imposing their wishes on mine. I like to see a face.

    Point me to any other religion/sect that does that.

    Isn't that imposing your wishes on them? :pac:
    they're not really there for your amusement


  • #55
    Packrat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭Packrat


    Magaggie wrote: »
    Just because a person doesn't agree with the veil being banned, doesn't mean they're also ok with suicide bombers.
    Any muslim customs that harm people should obviously be banned, but the veil, while imbued with vile ideology, is just a garment. Criticise it, yes - it deserves a lot of criticism, but banning the wearing of a garment is what happens in repressive countries - France should be above that.

    My fiancée thinks dogs are great, however we live in an apartment, and dogs sh1t a lot. No point in getting a dog and hoping that it won't sh1t at some stage. It will, hence no dog.

    Islam is unfortunately producing radical Jihadists everywhere it abounds at the moment, and there's no point in hoping that we only get "a sound bunch of lads" It's stupid and infantile to think that it won't bring the same here.

    France is doing something to prevent it being a welcoming place for Islam, - make it as difficult as possible to practice there, and at least the more radical militant ones might fcuk off somewhere else with their medieval ideas.

    I would say ALL religion should be banned, but in reality there are only one or two that are posing a threat to world security at the moment, so I'd support introducing laws to ban those.

    Don't worry though, you and your like are in majority here for now, so no bans - till after the bombs start going off here.

    .

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • #56
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Well. Can I wear a bikini in Saudi Arabia? NO.

    Can a Muslim wear a horrible Burka here? YES.

    Should be a quid pro quo at least.
    Why should it? Saudi Arabia's rules are hardly something to aspire to.


  • #57
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,907 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    The veil is a symbol of oppression - irrespective of personal choice.

    France is standing up for its secularism by banning such oppressive symbols.

    Should we, for example, tolerate other symbols of oppression? No.

    Personal choice doesn't come into it when you look at it from this perspective.

    Nearly every single bit of religious paraphernalia is symbolic of repression. If you get down to it so is most gender specific paraphernalia. Skirts for example. Should we ban everything that has any connotation?

    I've always felt that forcing someone not to wear something is as bad as forcing people to wear something.


  • #58
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Packrat wrote: »
    Don't worry though, you and your like are in majority here for now, so no bans - till after the bombs start going off here.

    .
    Not one sentence in my post indicated I'm "like" anyone. If anything I was critical of the more extreme muslim customs.
    Do you think along "You're either 100% with us, otherwise you're against us" lines? Being opposed to the banning of a veil = supporting jihadists, that kinda simplistic thing?


  • #59
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    It's a cultural thing,(..........) public thing.
    .
    So no priests uniforms, nuns uniforms, the orthodox Jews can't wear their attire?

    And I'm still none the wiser as to what Saudi have to do with anything.
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    If someone persists in donning full figure covering for religion, well, that is imposing their wishes on mine. I like to see a face.

    Point me to any other religion/sect that does that.

    So imposing on you so not showing you their face. Do you take the same view with womens breasts?

    The number of religions that do it is fairly irrelevant.


  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nodin wrote: »
    Dundalk.
    Be a short trip for her.


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  • #61
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    i thought the ideals of France were liberty equality fraternity. Does that mean you can wear what ever the hell you like. You don't have to wear a bikini to be French.

    I like living in Europe, where you are meant to be free to wear what you want. I don't want to follow the laws of Saudi where you are forced to wear something, why would we want to be like that?

    I see nobody is mentioning Muslim countries like Turkey which would have a more sensible attitude, only the extremes. As if all Muslims from all areas in the world are the same.


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