French politician angered by veiled Muslim at beach

crazyderk · 19-08-2014 04:02PM #1

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/life-style/art-and-culture/2014/08/19/Nadine-Morano-.html

A conservative French politician sparked a debate after she posted Monday a picture of a veiled Muslim woman on a beach in France and the cover of Le Figaro magazine portraying former French sex icon Brigitte Bardot.

Nadine Morano, who published the picture on her personal Facebook account, wrote: “When one chooses to come to secular, France... one must respect our culture and the freedom of women. If not, go elsewhere!”

In France, women wearing full-face veils in public spaces can be fined up to 150 euros ($205) following a ban passed in 2010.

France, which is home to Europe's largest Muslim community, said the ban is necessary for security reasons and to uphold the country’s secular traditions.

I'm not sure how I feel about this, on one hand if you immigrate to a country you should integrate to that countries traditions however on the other side of the argument if you wants the freedoms then you should also be respecting how other people want to live, is that not the core of democracy?

Do you agree with what she has said or do you think she is wrong?

Edit: Apologies I messed up the title perhaps a mod could fix it? Should read "French politician angered by veiled Muslim at beach"

pickarooney · 19-08-2014 04:09PM

one must respect our culture and the freedom of women

except for the freedom of women born in France to wear veils, naturally

HurtLocker · 19-08-2014 04:14PM

Well I cant wear a motorcycle helmet or balaclava into a bank, restaurant or supermarket. If I wore a balaclava on a public street or a motorcycle helmet with no bike in sight Id have the gards out to me. The key to a democracy is everyone is treated equally not one segment given exemptions from our social norms due to their social norms back home and their religion. Of course I dont care about having other cultures within our society as we are anation of immigrants ourself but being allowed to cover ones face making oneself anonymous is really up to each country to decide whether they wish to accept this. Try and enter a bank here wearing a face cover for non religious reasons and see how far you get. Secular society should treat every individual the same regardless of background or culture period.

Edit: I presume we are talking about the full face (burka) cover and not the hijab.

jimgoose · 19-08-2014 04:18PM

crazyderk wrote: »

...you should also be respecting how other people want to live, is that not the core of democracy?...

Most certainly, I wouldn't dream of interfering with anyone's right to wear a burka. They are most welcome to do so, and more, in their own countries.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-08-2014 04:20PM

crazyderk wrote: »

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/life-style/art-and-culture/2014/08/19/Nadine-Morano-.html

I'm not sure how I feel about this, on one hand if you immigrate to a country you should integrate to that countries traditions however on the other side of the argument if you wants the freedoms then you should also be respecting how other people want to live, is that not the core of democracy?

Do you agree with what she has said or do you think she is wrong?

Edit: Apologies I messed up the title perhaps a mod could fix it? Should read "French politician angered by veiled Muslim at beach"

Whevever I hear that a law is being passed or a right is being revoked for "security reasons", I automatically get skeptical. It's like they just want to restrict a freedom, have no good reason, and just lazily try to frighten people into thinking that it's needed.

Core democracy is letting people choose - is she saying people should 'integrate' or people should 'conform'? How does she know this woman does not integrate in other ways?

Panthro · 19-08-2014 04:22PM

French Politician causes what, causes what?!
Arrrgghhh!!

pickarooney · 19-08-2014 04:22PM

A beach is a bit different though, no? You can't really go topless into a bank either.

comongethappy · 19-08-2014 04:23PM

Another France/Veil thread?

Panthro · 19-08-2014 04:24PM

Thinly veiled France bitchin' thread.

pickarooney · 19-08-2014 04:24PM

Thinly veiled muslim bashing thread?

edit: dammit, seconds too late

jimgoose · 19-08-2014 04:24PM

comongethappy wrote: »

Another France/Veil thread?

Worse - another veiled France thread! And I'm not ruddy-well falling for it!! Allez! :cool:

Panthro · 19-08-2014 04:27PM

pickarooney wrote: »

Thinly veiled muslim bashing thread?

edit: dammit, seconds too late

You know what happens if you snooze?....
http://t.qkme.me/3saz6n.jpg
:pac:

wretcheddomain · 19-08-2014 04:29PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Whevever I hear that a law is being passed or a right is being revoked for "security reasons", I automatically get skeptical. It's like they just want to restrict a freedom, have no good reason, and just lazily try to frighten people into thinking that it's needed.

Core democracy is letting people choose - is she saying people should 'integrate' or people should 'conform'? How does she know this woman does not integrate in other ways?

The veil is a symbol of oppression - irrespective of personal choice.

France is standing up for its secularism by banning such oppressive symbols.

Should we, for example, tolerate other symbols of oppression? No.

Personal choice doesn't come into it when you look at it from this perspective.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-08-2014 04:31PM

wretcheddomain wrote: »

The veil is a symbol of oppression - irrespective of personal choice.

France is standing up for its secularism by banning such oppressive symbols.

Should we, for example, tolerate other symbols of oppression? No.

Personal choice doesn't come into it when you look at it from this perspective.

Is it a symbol of opression though? Is a wedding ring a symbol of oppression? A school uniform? A suit?

Smiles35 · 19-08-2014 05:00PM

The 'Safety' charge is obvoisly trumped up. But don't the French like to get in your face socially?

The_Valeyard · 19-08-2014 05:11PM

No need to worry, im sure France will soon surrender.

FloatingVoter · 19-08-2014 05:16PM

Someone said "topless banks". I'm for this.

Mr. CooL ICE · 19-08-2014 05:17PM

Still haven't forgiven them for Thierry Henry

El Weirdo · 19-08-2014 05:36PM

jimgoose wrote: »

Most certainly, I wouldn't dream of interfering with anyone's right to wear a burka. They are most welcome to do so, and more, in their own countries.

And what about French women who wish to wear a burqa?

MS.ing · 19-08-2014 05:54PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

And what about French women who wish to wear a burqa?

the muslims are french

jimgoose · 19-08-2014 05:56PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

And what about French women who wish to wear a burqa?

As soon as I am allowed to hide my face going into a bank.

Nodin · 19-08-2014 05:57PM

jimgoose wrote: »

Most certainly, I wouldn't dream of interfering with anyone's right to wear a burka. They are most welcome to do so, and more, in their own countries.

You know theres been a large muslim population in France since the late 19th century.......?

jimgoose · 19-08-2014 05:58PM

Nodin wrote: »

You know theres been a large muslim population in France since the late 19th century.......?

Yes. And?

Nodin · 19-08-2014 06:00PM

jimgoose wrote: »

Yes. And?

And France therefore is their country. And their parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc. Thus

They are most welcome to do so, and more, in their own countries

is rather a stupid statement to make.

jimgoose · 19-08-2014 06:03PM

Nodin wrote: »

And France therefore is their country. And their parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc. Thus

is rather a stupid statement to make.

I don't think so. France is a secular democracy which, like here, regulates the public obfuscation of facial features.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-08-2014 06:08PM

jimgoose wrote: »

I don't think so. France is a secular democracy which, like here, regulates the public obfuscation of facial features.

Doesn't matter what it is. If they grew up there it's their country. Just because you disagree with it doesn;t mean that somewhere else is yoru country.

Also, we don't instruct people to show their faces in public. Private, yes, but not public.

Nodin · 19-08-2014 06:15PM

jimgoose wrote: »

I don't think so. France is a secular democracy which, like here, regulates the public obfuscation of facial features.

Hang on a tic and move those goalposts back. You specifically stated

They are most welcome to do so, and more, in their own countries

(my bold and underline)

These people are French. Many of them have French roots going back well over a century. Telling them they're welcome to do something "in their own countries" is conflating ethnic origin with nationality, devaluing citizenship based on a persons religion, and xenophobic cack of the worst order.

jimgoose · 19-08-2014 06:22PM

Nodin wrote: »

Hang on a tic and move those goalposts back. You specifically stated

(my bold and underline)

These people are French. Many of them have French roots going back well over a century. Telling them they're welcome to do something "in their own countries" is conflating ethnic origin with nationality, devaluing citizenship based on a persons religion, and xenophobic cack of the worst order.

I actually am a xenophobic, right-wing asshole, and sometimes we are needed. And quit claiming monopoly on Righteousness!

Nodin · 19-08-2014 06:32PM

jimgoose wrote: »

I actually am a xenophobic, right-wing asshole, and sometimes we are needed.

I've no idea. However you're straying into their territory, and no, they aren't needed at all.

K-9 · 19-08-2014 06:43PM

Tbh I don't see the issue about wearing a burka at a beach! Must be pretty uncomfortable but as long it's what she wants to do, fine.

I was reading recently that less women in France are going topless so maybe that has something to do with it, or maybe nothing at all!

jimgoose · 19-08-2014 06:52PM

Nodin wrote: »

I've no idea. However you're straying into their territory, and no, they aren't needed at all.

We'll see what the non-spineless people of La Belle France think in due course.

French politician angered by veiled Muslim at beach

Do you agree with the French Politicians statement? 100 votes

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