Looting and Rioting in St. Louis (Merged)

AlekSmart · 19-08-2014 04:52PM

pickarooney wrote: »

Do they count each stopped person only once or does each stop count, regardless of if it's the same person being pulled over every day?

Kinda wonderin if the American media carry reports of lads with 119 previous CONVICTIONS n suchlikes,being stopped by the rozzers ?

Little CuChulainn · 19-08-2014 04:56PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's the latest in a spate. American cops kill too often, simple as. Killing should be reserved for only the most absolutely extreme cases of necessity, whether that be killing by cops or by ordinary citizens.

As in a fairly large man running towards you after already trying to take your weapon. You're probably one of those people that thinks they should shoot them in the leg.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's not about the actions of one cop, it's about the actions of an establishment which consistently fails to punish cops who kill or assault citizens.

Oh but it is about one cop. One cop which has so far been shown to have been right despite all the made up "witness" accounts.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

FYP.

An where was that word in all your allegations?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

They wouldn't have if the cops had handled the situation properly. Firstly going back on their word about releasing the officer's name, and secondly deploying riot cops against the entire protest rather than just the riots.

EDIT: What have you to say about the arresting of journalists?

Another bull**** excuse. While the police could have done things differently, it doesn't excuse the actions of the looter and rioters in any way.

RustyNut wrote: »

OK, if you think that beating was justified then that speaks volumes about you.

What would you have done different? Let's assume you had removed the knife from him and he had not responded to the use of the taser. How would you have gotten him from sitting against the wall to handcuffs?

EyeSight · 19-08-2014 04:56PM

In most of the cases you mentioned the deaths were not caused by the national guard. There would have been far more without them. Remember there are the people protesting peacefully, the rioters and the innocents who's stores are being burnt and looted. Rioters rob, assault and kill innocents.

The amount of over the top statements in this thread is laughable! People are coming in shouting f**k the police, like they're NWA, but they pick and chose what they want to read/believe.

Egginacup · 19-08-2014 04:58PM

rockonollie wrote: »

You left out a word.....you have the right to demonstrate PEACEFULLY.....the initially peaceful protests were not "crushed" by police, they turned to rioting and looting on the very first night.

The police seem to decide what's peaceful and what's not. If you have a peaceful demonstration in one part of town and a mob burn a car or smash up some shops in another part of town, miles away the cops don't discriminate or differentiate. They just go ballistic and beat everyone and use the excuse that the demonstration turned violent.

Little CuChulainn · 19-08-2014 05:00PM

Egginacup wrote: »

The police seem to decide what's peaceful and what's not.

That would be their job alright. You seem to have a real chip on your soldier about another person having authority over you.

RustyNut · 19-08-2014 05:02PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

What would you have done different? Let's assume you had removed the knife from him and he had not responded to the use of the taser. How would you have gotten him from sitting against the wall to handcuffs?

Can you not see any other way rather than beating somebody who poses no threat to any body untill he has several broken limbs. Would you like to see your colleague members of AGS using the same tactics against irish citizins.?

ForstalDave · 19-08-2014 05:04PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

That would be their job alright. You seem to have a real chip on your soldier about another person having authority over you.

Who wants someone who abuses there power to have authority over them, If i exercise my right to peacefully protest id like to know i wont be beaten for it and the ferguson police in this have been heavy handed, fair enough in stopping looting but indiscriminate use of tear gas and aggressiveness towards peaceful protestors

Little CuChulainn · 19-08-2014 05:06PM

RustyNut wrote: »

Can you not see any other way rather than beating somebody who poses no threat to any body untill he has several broken limbs. Would you like to see your colleague members of AGS using the same tactics against irish citizins.?

I asked you what you would have done differently to get the man from where he was into a handcuffed position? Very simple question. They escalated their force from physical force to taser to baton. If you are so easily able to condemn their actions you should surely have a more suitable method in mind to get him handcuffed.

RustyNut · 19-08-2014 05:07PM

rockonollie wrote: »

The irish army accompany cash in transit deliveries to banks, supporting the gardai......does that mean that everytime a bank is delivered money that the irish army is going to war with irish citizens?

No only bank robbers, fair game by any measure.

RustyNut · 19-08-2014 05:11PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I asked you what you would have done differently to get the man from where he was into a handcuffed position? Very simple question. They escalated their force from physical force to taser to baton. If you are so easily able to condemn their actions you should surely have a more suitable method in mind to get him handcuffed.

Stop beating him and talk to him. But that was not tried before your colleagues proceded to beat him to a broken boned pulp.

Egginacup · 19-08-2014 05:15PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

As in a fairly large man running towards you after already trying to take your weapon. You're probably one of those people that thinks they should shoot them in the leg.

Oh but it is about one cop. One cop which has so far been shown to have been right despite all the made up "witness" accounts.

An where was that word in all your allegations?

Another bull**** excuse. While the police could have done things differently, it doesn't excuse the actions of the looter and rioters in any way.

What would you have done different? Let's assume you had removed the knife from him and he had not responded to the use of the taser. How would you have gotten him from sitting against the wall to handcuffs?

From what I can see police officers the world over are trained to DEFUSE situations. In the US the cops go out of their way to ESCALATE them until someone is maimed or dead.

In European countries if a woman is drunk or hysterical the cops will calm her down. In many instances they will call a relative to come and get her. I've even seen the police bring someone like this home.
In the US the cops will just beat the sh1t out of her for fun. I've witnessed undercover cops in Amsterdam apprehend criminals. They swoop down apprehend the suspect and then uniformed officers arrive and put the criminal into a car. It's all very professional and smooth. Almost dignified.
In America they just put the boot in for no reason. And people still make excuses like "well he could have a concealed weapon or be high on something that would give him supernatural strength and powers" bullsh1t. I've heard it all before the lame excuses that people trot out for condoning American police savagery.

These people are not interested in serving the community. They don't see themselves as public servants at all. They see themselves as "the man" and anyone who doesn't kowtow gets their face smashed into the pavement.

Little CuChulainn · 19-08-2014 05:16PM

RustyNut wrote: »

Stop beating him and talk to him. But that was not tried before your colleagues proceded to beat him to a broken boned pulp.

Are you for real? They were talking to him. He then pulled a knife. And if you watched the video they did stop hitting him a number of times and instruct him to get on his stomach. He refused. They tried to handcuff him where he was. He didn't let them. What kind of fantasy land to you live in? Do you think people off their head on coke can be reasoned with? Have you ever tried it? Even without the drugs, some people have no inclination to be cooperative.

comongethappy · 19-08-2014 05:18PM

Egginacup wrote: »

In European countries if a woman is drunk or hysterical the cops will calm her down. In many instances they will call a relative to come and get her. I've even seen the police bring someone like this home.
In the US the cops will just beat the sh1t out of her for fun.

What state did you see this happen?

Little CuChulainn · 19-08-2014 05:18PM

Egginacup wrote: »

From what I can see police officers the world over are trained to DEFUSE situations. In the US the cops go out of their way to ESCALATE them until someone is maimed or dead.

In European countries if a woman is drunk or hysterical the cops will calm her down. In many instances they will call a relative to come and get her. I've even seen the police bring someone like this home.
In the US the cops will just beat the sh1t out of her for fun. I've witnessed undercover cops in Amsterdam apprehend criminals. They swoop down apprehend the suspect and then uniformed officers arrive and put the criminal into a car. It's all very professional and smooth. Almost dignified.
In America they just put the boot in for no reason. And people still make excuses like "well he could have a concealed weapon or be high on something that would give him supernatural strength and powers" bullsh1t. I've heard it all before the lame excuses that people trot out for condoning American police savagery.

These people are not interested in serving the community. They don't see themselves as public servants at all. They see themselves as "the man" and anyone who doesn't kowtow gets their face smashed into the pavement.

Even if all that is true, it still does not justify rioting and looting in any way.

ForstalDave · 19-08-2014 05:19PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Even if all that is true, it still does not justify rioting and looting in any way.

I don't think anyone here has said it does, but being heavy handed with the peaceful protesters as well as the rioters is not the way to deal with this, they have a right to protest

InTheTrees · 19-08-2014 05:21PM

rockonollie wrote: »

you have the right to demonstrate PEACEFULLY

I think a worrying development in the USA is the concept of "demonstration zones" where the police designate some out of the way area as a place for lawful demonstrations which allows them to trample on the constitutional rights of citizens demonstrating anywhere else.

I remember during george bush's inauguration, they actually had to bus demonstrators to the fenced in "designated demonstration zones" they were so far away. Miles away.

Egginacup · 19-08-2014 05:23PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

That would be their job alright. You seem to have a real chip on your soldier about another person having authority over you.

You see that's where you and I differ. You seem to have no problem with someone ordering you around even when they DON'T have that authority. You also seem to have no problem with that person beating you black and blue if you don't comply. You seem to be fine living your life as someone whose freedom, health and safety is at the whim of someone else.
As a law abiding citizen I expect agents of the state to abide by the same laws that are expected of me. And I know my rights when dealing with agents of the state and those rights don't include being meek and subservient to the "man".

You on the contrary seem to think that condoning police brutality and in fact enthusiastically supporting it will somehow shield and protect you from it.

Egginacup · 19-08-2014 05:28PM

RustyNut wrote: »

Stop beating him and talk to him. But that was not tried before your colleagues proceded to beat him to a broken boned pulp.

You're going to get called a tree-hugging, pinko fag for suggesting the use of anything other than mindless violence. Not only that but someone's going to come back at you with the predictable "Oh, maybe we should just give him a hug, and some money because he's had a poor upbringing" crap.

Mark my words.

Little CuChulainn · 19-08-2014 05:30PM

Egginacup wrote: »

You see that's where you and I differ. You seem to have no problem with someone ordering you around even when they DON'T have that authority. You also seem to have no problem with that person beating you black and blue if you don't comply. You seem to be fine living your life as someone whose freedom, health and safety is at the whim of someone else.
As a law abiding citizen I expect agents of the state to abide by the same laws that are expected of me. And I know my rights when dealing with agents of the state and those rights don't include being meek and subservient to the "man".

You on the contrary seem to think that condoning police brutality and in fact enthusiastically supporting it will somehow shield and protect you from it.

You are mistaken. We just disagree on what constitutes reasonable force and what constitutes good cause for using it.

RustyNut · 19-08-2014 05:34PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Are you for real? They were talking to him. He then pulled a knife. And if you watched the video they did stop hitting him a number of times and instruct him to get on his stomach. He refused. They tried to handcuff him where he was. He didn't let them. What kind of fantasy land to you live in? Do you think people off their head on coke can be reasoned with? Have you ever tried it? Even without the drugs, some people have no inclination to be cooperative.

Ok, people will look and decide for themselves.I just dont see any need for such violence.

Little CuChulainn · 19-08-2014 05:37PM

RustyNut wrote: »

Ok, people will look and decide for themselves.I just dont see any need for such violence.

I would suggest it is because you have never found yourself in a similar situation.

RustyNut · 19-08-2014 05:38PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I would suggest it is because you have never found yourself in a similar situation.

OK

Egginacup · 19-08-2014 05:40PM

comongethappy wrote: »

What state did you see this happen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9oHbDr0QtQ

These cops don't even speak to the public with respect ("This discussion if over") so that right there shows you how they view themselves.
Imagine arresting a girl for blowing bubbles just because you don't like her so trump up some horseh!t charge like her bubbles touching you can me construed as assault.

What a big brave man that stupid cnut is.

Egginacup · 19-08-2014 05:47PM

comongethappy wrote: »

What state did you see this happen?

California:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ke6z9a5QOQ

New York:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7va0JPgYQ8

Pennsylvania:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWHAf70RP8s

Illinois:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnjYrXd9ycA

You get the picture.

rockonollie · 19-08-2014 05:53PM

RustyNut wrote: »

No only bank robbers, fair game by any measure.

No, it's an identical situation.

The irish army are assigned to protect the cash delivery, they will only engage with citizens that attempt illegal action or pose an immediate threat against the cash delivery.

The national guard are assigned to protect the police command center, they will only engage with citizens that attempt illegal action or pose an immediate threat against the command center.

It's identical situations, so from the statements already made in this thread, the irish army "go to war" with irish citizens every time they escort a cash delivery.

JupiterKid · 19-08-2014 06:31PM

I'm just surprised that it's been a good while since riots/looting erupted in an American city.

Like Detroit and Cleveland, St Louis is a city in decline.

comongethappy · 19-08-2014 07:07PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

I'm just surprised that it's been a good while since riots/looting erupted in an American city.

Like Detroit and Cleveland, St Louis is a city in decline.

None can get near the NFL playoffs..... Cause & affect.

rockonollie · 19-08-2014 07:37PM

Now would be a good time to point out that Ferguson police confirmed to a St. Louis reporter that they have about a dozen witness statements that backup Officer Wilson's version of events, which would suggest a legal shooting if correct. Oddly enough, none of the national news agencies have decided to share that piece of information, even though it is making its way around smaller news outlets.

It sums up to 4 witness statements claiming Brown was illegally shot (of those 4 statements, there are 3 contradictory stories) and a dozen or so statements that reportedly all agree that match Officer Wilson's story.

Egginacup · 19-08-2014 08:00PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You are mistaken. We just disagree on what constitutes reasonable force and what constitutes good cause for using it.

Rubbish. In Northern Ireland we had the disgusting RUC "acceptable level" and that went anywhere from a shoot-to-kill policy right down to beating the tar out of a kid walking his girlfriend home from the pictures.

Your coveted "reasonable force" is as vague and unknown as military "rules of engagement" in war zones.
A bunch of marines pepper a civilian car with machine gun fire as the father, wife and kids are terrifiedly trying to get away. Some clown in the brass comes out and states they observed the "rules of engagement". When asked to reveal these sacrosanct rules the clown comes up with some stock answer like "they're classified" or revealing them would jeopardise "National Security" or some other gibberish that would insult the intelligence of an amoeba.

Punching the sh1t out of anyone and everyone for fun is not reasonable force.
You must have read that report that in 2011 the entire German police force in a country fired 85 bullets, 39 of which were warning shots.
And yet you think that emptying a clip of 15 or so rounds into someone is reasonable force.
Someone who does this is has not differentiated their job from a character in an action movie. In the movies some guy blasts until it clicks at someone. A cop in the US thinks like that and doesn't care whether his target lives or dies. In fact does everything to kill once the flimsiest of excuses can be used to justify it.

InTheTrees · 19-08-2014 08:04PM

rockonollie wrote: »

Now would be a good time to point out that Ferguson police confirmed to a St. Louis reporter that they have about a dozen witness statements that backup Officer Wilson's version of events, which would suggest a legal shooting if correct.

There's very little chance of the officer being convicted of anything.

And there's been an epidemic of white cops shooting black people on the most slender reasons.

Looting and Rioting in St. Louis (Merged)

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