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DNF

2

Comments

  • #32
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,242 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Hard Worker wrote: »
    He was still competing at pb pace when he stepped out of the race. He didn't like the situation he was in. Very poor attitude in my opinion.

    Hard to disagree here.


  • #33
    wrstan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 767 ✭✭✭wrstan


    Enduro wrote: »
    Context is key in sorting out which factors should even come into consideration.

    He's an athlete at the very top of the pile. He is the reigning world champion. That's the key context. And its very diffirent to every other current Irish Athlete. He has years and years of race experience at the top level behind him. ...

    His reasoning for pulling out sounds perfectly logical to me, given the context. Since he was mentally disengaging from the race he probably had more to loose than gain by finishing for finishing sake. Better to cut losses and move straight to the next target/goal (and ignore everyone dwelling on this race).

    I think there is an important bit of context missing from your post Enduro. That is Rob was also competing as part of a team, not just a team but the National team at a major Champs, and not just as a competitor but as the Captain.
    Ososlo wrote: »

    So, bad attitude and bad example or understandable?

    I think it is impossible to judge this, from my distance at least. I would have preferred to see him finish, but for sure I don't know what he was feeling at the time he decided to step off the track.


  • #34
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,242 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    wrstan wrote: »
    I think it is impossible to judge this, from my distance at least. I would have preferred to see him finish, but for sure I don't know what he was feeling at the time he decided to step off the track.

    All we have to go on is what he himself said, unless more has come to light? In a nutshell he wasn't happy with finishing out of the medals. That for me is the right attitude, but quitting because of it is not the right attitude.

    It's not like he's the GOAT at the event. He has had a lot of success, and is a world class operator, but it's not like he is entitled to medal. I have no issue with people setting high standards, but at times they do it when it's not always going to happen.

    It's sort of sour grapes/bad sportsmanship for me. And I can see the other side of the argument too. He has given a lot to the sport and to the country and to the people who support him.


  • #35
    nerraw1111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭nerraw1111


    He did add a Facebook post where he concedes that he let some people down.

    "This is the first race I have ever droped out of. I am bitterly disappointed to have left myself, country and team down. I went out with one goal of winning and it fell apart. Thank you so much to people for there continued support and I genuinely appreciate it so much. I have come back from far worse scenarios in the past and I will again."


  • #36
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Hard Worker wrote: »
    He was still competing at pb pace when he stepped out of the race. He didn't like the situation he was in. Very poor attitude in my opinion.

    No he wasn't. Far from it. He had been going backwards for about 10k by the time he dropped out. His projected finish time was 3:41ish when he dropped out.

    Some amazing nonsense being spouted on this thread.


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  • #37
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,242 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    He should have started running!


  • #38
    nerraw1111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭nerraw1111


    Given his years of racing, is it not impressive that it was his first DNF?


  • #39
    pconn062
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    walshb wrote: »
    He should have started running!

    Unnecessary, no need to try and deliberately wind people up.


  • #40
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,530 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    pconn062 wrote: »
    Unnecessary, no need to try and deliberately wind people up.
    It's an interesting point though. If he'd just picked up three red cards, then none of this conversation would be happening!


  • #41
    Enduro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,923 ✭✭✭Enduro


    wrstan wrote: »
    I think there is an important bit of context missing from your post Enduro. That is Rob was also competing as part of a team, not just a team but the National team at a major Champs, and not just as a competitor but as the Captain.

    That is most definitely an additional contextual issue that should be very relevant in the decision making process. Totally agree there.

    Personally though, I don't see how that would have altered his decision, given that he was already out of the medal positions, generally drifting backwards competitively, and (most relevantly I think) mentally disengaging and demotivated. I don't see what the rest of the squad would have gained from him carrying on and finishishing for finishing sake (in what would probably still have been a relatively poor performance compared to his expected performance). He may very well have taken those factors on board and come to a similar conclusion. Only he knows.

    Equally I would say that in the end athletics is an individual sport mostly (Relays etc being the obvious exceptions), and whilst it is obviously a good thing that your team-mates good performances can inspire and motivate, any athlete who would let a relatively poor performance from one of their teammates negatively affect their own performance probably needs a trip to the sports psychologist! From what I've seen of the Irish squad out in Zurich they seem well enough in control of their mental approach that Rob's (or anyone elses) performance was extremely unlikely to negatively affect them. Indeed, we got a series of super performances from the squad after Rob's race.


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  • #42
    pconn062
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    It's an interesting point though. If he'd just picked up three red cards, then none of this conversation would be happening!

    Who, Rob or walshb?! ;)


  • #43
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,242 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    pconn062 wrote: »
    Unnecessary, no need to try and deliberately wind people up.

    I didn't mean it like that. Point taken, pconn062.


  • #44
    Peterx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭Peterx


    Was his projected 3:41 going to be a scoring place?

    Assuming the team aspect is an important goal you would have to say he should stay going until is no longer a scoring athlete for the team. He was the captain.

    I've been on teams with lads who were having shocking days by their own standards, much like Rob Heffernan, and yet continued on for the team and still finished ahead of me and thus helped the team. He obviously has courage and grit in abundance so dropping out showed a degree of lsck of regard/respect for his teammates -which was probably an emotional on the day reaction as he has done plenty for Irish race walking and his teammates in terms of training and support.


  • #45
    Hard Worker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Hard Worker


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    No he wasn't. Far from it. He had been going backwards for about 10k by the time he dropped out. His projected finish time was 3:41ish when he dropped out.

    Some amazing nonsense being spouted on this thread.

    He was certainly competing at pb pace when he mentally threw in the towel.


  • #46
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Hard Worker wrote: »
    He was certainly competing at pb pace when he mentally threw in the towel.

    An irrelevant point. He was going too hard too soon, he didn't walk his own race. His pace was unsustainable as a result.


  • #47
    Enduro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,923 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Peterx wrote: »
    Was his projected 3:41 going to be a scoring place?

    Assuming the team aspect is an important goal you would have to say he should stay going until is no longer a scoring athlete for the team. He was the captain.

    I've been on teams with lads who were having shocking days by their own standards, much like Rob Heffernan, and yet continued on for the team and still finished ahead of me and thus helped the team. He obviously has courage and grit in abundance so dropping out showed a degree of lsck of regard/respect for his teammates -which was probably an emotional on the day reaction as he has done plenty for Irish race walking and his teammates in terms of training and support.

    AFAIK there was no team scoring in the 50km walk. I think the Marathons were the only event where team medals were available in addition to solo medals (in the same race). In which case, this was not a factor.


  • #48
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Peterx wrote: »
    Was his projected 3:41 going to be a scoring place?

    Assuming the team aspect is an important goal you would have to say he should stay going until is no longer a scoring athlete for the team. He was the captain.

    I've been on teams with lads who were having shocking days by their own standards, much like Rob Heffernan, and yet continued on for the team and still finished ahead of me and thus helped the team. He obviously has courage and grit in abundance so dropping out showed a degree of lsck of regard/respect for his teammates -which was probably an emotional on the day reaction as he has done plenty for Irish race walking and his teammates in terms of training and support.

    Whatever are you talking about. There's no team event in the walk. You are getting mixed up with the marathon.


  • #49
    thirstywork2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭thirstywork2


    Rob has hight standards of himself hence he is the current World champion.
    To compete at the Euro's and be there isn't the goal.
    He wanted a medal and on the day there where 3+ guys better than him.
    Why go through the motions and just walk around,save the body for another day.

    Rob has had more difficult situations than this to deal with in his career and he will be back to win more medals.
    People very quick to kick a man when he is down.


  • #50
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    I don't think people are kicking him in fairness. Being an elite athlete doesn't put you beyond criticism.


  • #51
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,242 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    thirstywork2 wrote: »
    Rob has hight standards of himself hence he is the current World champion.
    To compete at the Euro's and be there isn't the goal.
    He wanted a medal and on the day there where 3+ guys better than him.
    Why go through the motions and just walk around,save the body for another day.

    That is a weak argument. It's an arrogance that he hasn't earned. He won a world title, but before this it's not like he was some god. Was he even rated number 1 in Europe?

    BTW, Hefferanan has been very honest about it. I respect him for this. Irish Times Sport.

    "“As a race, I just feel as if I got beaten up, and it just broke me,” he said. “It broke my spirit, broke me mentally. When I realised I just wasn’t going to pull them back, it just fell apart, genuinely fell apart. Mentally, I was gone, because when first and then second were gone from me, I just didn’t want third, or fourth. I came here to win, and that just wasn’t to be.

    “Now maybe that attitude is wrong, and I’ll have to think about it, afterwards, to go forward. Because that’s only making an excuse. And I don’t want to make any excuse. The motivation just wasn’t there, that’s bad, and I’m not happy about it.”


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  • #52
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,530 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Being an elite athlete doesn't put you beyond criticism.
    Being an elite athlete doesn't automatically qualify you as being a fair target for criticism either. If Rob is eligible for criticism, then so are you personally, and so am I. You can argue that he is publicly funded, but you and I are also eligible for that funding, if we achieve the targets set out by the Irish Sports Council/AAI. Let's hope that neither of us puts a foot wrong, or we'll face the judgement of the internet masses. The only problem is that you and I are more likely to DNF than we are to become world champions.


  • #53
    thirstywork2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭thirstywork2


    walshb wrote: »
    That is a weak argument. It's an arrogance that he hasn't earned. He won a world title, but before this it's not like he was some god. Was he even rated number 1 in Europe?

    Ever rated number 1?Well he won the World title and 4th in the Olympic games so ranking sometimes means nothing especially in 50k terms.
    Who said he was a God?


  • #54
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,242 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    thirstywork2 wrote: »
    Who said he was a God?

    Nobody!


  • #55
    Enduro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,923 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Whatever are you talking about. There's no team event in the walk. You are getting mixed up with the marathon.

    Wish I'd thought of that :)


  • #56
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    Being an elite athlete doesn't automatically qualify you as being a fair target for criticism either. If Rob is eligible for criticism, then so are you personally, and so am I. You can argue that he is publicly funded, but you and I are also eligible for that funding, if we achieve the targets set out by the Irish Sports Council/AAI. Let's hope that neither of us puts a foot wrong, or we'll face the judgement of the internet masses. The only problem is that you and I are more likely to DNF than we are to become world champions.

    I don't think any of us would put ourselves beyond criticism ? I'm just making the point that being an elite athlete doesn't put someone beyond criticism, nothing to do with public funding or anything like that.


  • #57
    rom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,147 ✭✭✭rom


    walshb wrote: »
    That is a weak argument. It's an arrogance that he hasn't earned. He won a world title, but before this it's not like he was some god. Was he even rated number 1 in Europe?

    BTW, Hefferanan has been very honest about it. I respect him for this. Irish Times Sport.

    "“As a race, I just feel as if I got beaten up, and it just broke me,” he said. “It broke my spirit, broke me mentally. When I realised I just wasn’t going to pull them back, it just fell apart, genuinely fell apart. Mentally, I was gone, because when first and then second were gone from me, I just didn’t want third, or fourth. I came here to win, and that just wasn’t to be.

    “Now maybe that attitude is wrong, and I’ll have to think about it, afterwards, to go forward. Because that’s only making an excuse. And I don’t want to make any excuse. The motivation just wasn’t there, that’s bad, and I’m not happy about it.”

    Possible overtrained? Can't see how it's arrogance to get bronze for 2010, finish 4th in the olympics in 2012, world champion in 2013 and have believe that he could go for gold once again. Should he have aimed for a bronze? The plan clearly worked for him last year but it didn't this time.

    PS you'd do need a lot of self believe when you have people coming on here kicking you while your down.


  • #58
    Peterx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭Peterx


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Whatever are you talking about. There's no team event in the walk. You are getting mixed up with the marathon.

    Indeed. Please accept my humblest internet apology.


  • #59
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,242 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    rom wrote: »
    Possible overtrained? Can't see how it's arrogance to get bronze for 2010, finish 4th in the olympics in 2012, world champion in 2013 and have believe that he could go for gold once again. Should he have aimed for a bronze? The plan clearly worked for him last year but it didn't this time.

    PS you'd do need a lot of self believe when you have people coming on here kicking you while your down.

    Of course he wanted gold and had a chance at it. Nobody said otherwise. He did not deserve it, that is the issue. Nobody deserves it. You earn it. It was not his day. He couldn't hack that and chose to quit rather than finish the race like most athletes would do. He was not injured. He seems to be regretting that decision, and I applaud his honesty regarding the situation.


  • #60
    tunguska
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    Hard Worker wrote: »
    He was still competing at pb pace when he stepped out of the race. He didn't like the situation he was in. Very poor attitude in my opinion.

    Yeah I was pretty shocked when I heard why he jacked it in. I think it boils down to all or nothing thinking and not having a plan B. It seems as though his self talk during the race was massively negative and when that happens it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy. Anything could've happened had he kept going, he might've come through the bad patch and rallied and as somebody mentioned already, theres been so many cases of athletes getting done for doping that its always worth staying in the game(unless you're injured).


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  • #61
    brutes1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 477 ✭✭brutes1


    Its a pity RH could not replicate his win at the Worlds , very honest comments from him, he is there to be shot at as a result.

    Just as an aside, 20 out of 70 starters in Mens marathon DNF, a serious attrition rate , including some big names such as Lalli etc


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