72% believe suicide to be morally unacceptable, do you agree?

Mr. Incognito · 17-08-2014 07:21PM

Sindo is a rag.

Probably biased questioning

Busted Flat. · 17-08-2014 07:29PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Sindo is a rag.

Probably biased questioning

ST

Sauve · 17-08-2014 07:34PM

'Morally unacceptable'. Feck off tbh.

As for the 'selfish' argument, I'm very much torn on it.
People commit suicide for such a myriad of reasons that I don't think it can be put into a neat little box where it all makes sense.

Every suicide/depression/whatever it may be is different. Of the suicides that I've been unfortunate to know of or be involved in, I would say one of those was categorically a selfish act. With the others- nothing about the person or the act was selfish. They were people who just couldn't see a way out of the black hole they were in.

There is no 'cure-all' answer to suicide and depression in this country, but I think the first step that has to be taken is the realisation of this. Everybody has a different story, everybody deals with their depression/problems differently, everybody has their own reasons for wanting out, or for feeling like the world would be a better place without them.
Everybody is different.

UCDVet · 17-08-2014 07:42PM

In my opinion, the most fundamental freedom we all have, is what to do with our lives. That absolutely must include the right to end it.

You aren't free if you aren't able to choose to stop living.

folamh · 17-08-2014 07:49PM

UCDVet wrote: »

In my opinion, the most fundamental freedom we all have, is what to do with our lives. That absolutely must include the right to end it.

You aren't free if you aren't able to choose to stop living.

The question is not what you have the right to do, it's what is moral to do. We have the freedom to do many immoral things.

berrygood · 17-08-2014 08:10PM

Itzy wrote: »

We can debate the morality of Suicide until we are blue in the face, but that doesn't address the problem or how it could be solved. It has touched the family of my Fiancée and a few friends, so I have some tiny minuscule idea of how distraught it leaves those who are left behind. It needs to be addressed and the hard questions asked, what drives someone to such a permanent solution to a short term problem?

I imagine for the person committing suicide, they don't see the problem as short term. For them there is no light at the end of the tunnel, just more tunnel.

It definitely needs to be addressed. Throwing morality at is about as useful as pouring hot water into a chocolate teapot. People need to be able to talk without fearing condemnation from the high horse brigade. Mental health issues really need to be highlighted in this country and the shame stripped away from the whole situation.

I can only imagine how bleak a state a person must be in to contemplate ending their lives. They have my every sympathy and I only wish they realised that there are no problems that can't be overcome if they could just talk to someone about what they're going through.

smellmepower · 17-08-2014 08:14PM

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Suicide is an awful thing that seems to affect so many of us nowadays.

There should be proper mental health care organisations in palace to help prevent it.

Pieta House do a bloody good job at trying to prevent it (with very limited resources) speaking from personal experience.

Busted Flat. · 17-08-2014 08:18PM

berrygood wrote: »

I imagine for the person committing suicide, they don't see the problem as short term. For them there is no light at the end of the tunnel, just more tunnel.

It definitely needs to be addressed. Throwing morality at is about as useful as pouring hot water into a chocolate teapot. People need to be able to talk without fearing condemnation from the high horse brigade. Mental health issues really need to be highlighted in this country and the shame stripped away from the whole situation.

I can only imagine how bleak a state a person must be in to contemplate ending their lives. They have my every sympathy and I only wish they realised that there are no problems that can't be overcome if they could just talk to someone about what they're going through.

Excellent post. A close friend's 17 year old daughter took her own life some time ago, they still have no answers, the high horse brigade and church should clean up their own house before casting aspirations on kids and adults that take that final decision, they are unable to get to the light at the end of the tunnel.

My name is URL · 17-08-2014 08:18PM

SeaDaily wrote: »

72% of people must not understand depression.

Depression isn't the only thing that leads to suicide, though

Turtwig · 17-08-2014 08:29PM

It'd be nice to see how this 72% is broken down among different age groups. If it's proportionally the same between all age groups then I truly despair at this result.:(

Don't share others concerns about the "loopers" on the telephones carrying out the polls. The people chosen to answer the questions to are what matters. If they are part of a very select distribution that provides a fair representation of Irish society. Then the poll is representative of Irish answers likely given to the questions asked. Also important is how the questions were phrased. If it were presented in the tone of an either-or scenario then that could have skewed inaccuracy into the polls results. For example did the question mean

"Suicide is always morally unacceptable. Agree/disagree?"
or

"Suicide is sometimes morally unacceptable. Agree/Disagree."

And were people confused over which band the question actually fell.

berrygood · 17-08-2014 08:31PM

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Excellent post. A close friend's 17 year old daughter took her own life some time ago, they still have no answers, the high horse brigade and church should clean up their own house before casting aspirations on kids and adults that take that final decision, they are unable to get to the light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope her family are doing okay.

bnt · 17-08-2014 08:48PM

Not sure how can suicide be a "moral" issue at all. When I hear someone taking a "moral" position, what I actually hear is "thou shalt not, because I don't like it, and I don't have to explain why". :mad:

UCDVet · 17-08-2014 09:32PM

folamh wrote: »

The question is not what you have the right to do, it's what is moral to do. We have the freedom to do many immoral things.

I think I'd disagree with that; but I'm not sure what you have in mind.

To me, something is immoral when it violates the rights of others. If people consent to some activity, it isn't immoral at all. I know that, strictly speaking, a lot of definitions you could look up for 'moral' or 'immoral' deal with 'societal norms' and not some objective sense. But since this question is about our own individual sense or morality - I don't personally see any reason to consider suicide immoral.

I can't think of anything I should be free to do that is immoral.

Son Of A Vidic · 17-08-2014 09:33PM

P_1 wrote: »

72% believe suicide to be morally unacceptable, do you agree?

Agree that there appears to be an incredible amount of ignorant people out there? Yes, it would appear so.

aqn29swlgbmiu4 · 17-08-2014 09:35PM

Imagine having locked in syndrome or like Robin Williams, early symptoms of Parkinsons.
If I ever developed Alzheimers/any kind of motor neuron disease I would definitely commit suicide.

folamh · 17-08-2014 10:06PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I think I'd disagree with that; but I'm not sure what you have in mind.

To me, something is immoral when it violates the rights of others. If people consent to some activity, it isn't immoral at all. I know that, strictly speaking, a lot of definitions you could look up for 'moral' or 'immoral' deal with 'societal norms' and not some objective sense. But since this question is about our own individual sense or morality - I don't personally see any reason to consider suicide immoral.

I can't think of anything I should be free to do that is immoral.

Here are some examples: you are free to break promises, call people rotting gutter *****, cheat on your partner and disallow Asian people to work for you. That doesn't mean you *should* do those things. There is a big difference between what you have the right to do and what is moral to do.

17-08-2014 10:09PM

Silly poll the way it was asked. "Morality" isn't really the issue. Generally suicide is wrong and selfish (often ends up as a spiral of self-shame and self-obsession, whatever the underlying causes), but generalities aren't everything.

shruikan2553 · 17-08-2014 10:12PM

Sound of Silence wrote: »

For those suffering with depression, suicide is often considered a way of unburdening others. They believe that by ending their lives, the lives of others will improve.

There is simply no room for selfishness for a person who lacks any self-worth. As such, suicide, whilst an incredibly unfortunate reality, is often made with the best intentions in the minds of those who suffer from the illness, no matter how twisted and destructive the decision might be for those around them.

This pretty much sums it up.

This is the best description for it. Its not selfishness, in fact they often think they are doing everyone a favour. I have seen the reactions of depressed people when you describe to them exactly what they are feeling. They are amazed when they see that someone actually understands them.

No idea what is meant by "morally unacceptable" though.

folamh · 17-08-2014 10:12PM

Kassidy Slow Moose wrote: »

Imagine having locked in syndrome or like Robin Williams, early symptoms of Parkinsons.
If I ever developed Alzheimers/any kind of motor neuron disease I would definitely commit suicide.

That's quite a thing to say. When push comes to shove and you actually get diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease (touch wood that doesn't happen), you would likely come to terms with the dreaded situation rather than killing yourself. The most unfortunate people on earth will not commit suicide because they will rationalize the most horrible of situations as better than the grim nothingness of death.

berrygood · 17-08-2014 10:16PM

folamh wrote: »

That's quite a thing to say. When push comes to shove and you actually get diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease (touch wood that doesn't happen), you would likely come to terms with the dreaded situation rather than killing yourself. The most unfortunate people on earth will not commit suicide because they will rationalize the most horrible of situations as better than the grim nothingness of death.

For some, grim reality is worse than the freedom afforded in death. Not everyone fears what may or may not lie beyond this world.

I think stigmatising suicide makes it that much harder for others who may be contemplating it to open up about their issues.

Frank Lee Midere · 17-08-2014 10:20PM

bnt wrote: »

Not sure how can suicide be a "moral" issue at all. When I hear someone taking a "moral" position, what I actually hear is "thou shalt not, because I don't like it, and I don't have to explain why". :mad:

All decisions which affect other people have a moral element to them.

folamh · 17-08-2014 10:21PM

berrygood wrote: »

For some, grim reality is worse than the freedom afforded in death. Not everyone fears what may or may not lie beyond this world.

That is true and would account for the minority of people who commit suicide.

Thespoofer · 17-08-2014 10:22PM

I think they're extremely brave..

Frank Lee Midere · 17-08-2014 10:25PM

I am not buying all the answers here. If suicide is a "neutral" decision then it's like crossing the road, or going to the gym. Therefore either the samaritans should be closed down or their answer to "should I kill myself" would always be "why not. Your life innit?"

I reserve the right to kill myself if I felt that my health would get to a point where living would be worse than death, but this is no moral neutral decision because it affects other people fundamentally. Particularly children and spouses. I would still do it, at least I feel that now, but it would still be selfish.

berrygood · 17-08-2014 10:30PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

I am not buying all the answers here. If suicide is a "neutral" decision then it's like crossing the road, or going to the gym. Therefore either the samaritans should be closed down or their answer to "should I kill myself" would always be "why not. Your life innit?"

I reserve the right to kill myself if I felt that my health would get to a point where living would be worse than death, but this is no moral neutral decision because it affects other people fundamentally. Particularly children and spouses. I would still do it but it would still be selfish.

Well, as with many things in life, it's just not that black and white.

For a lot of people who contemplate suicide (major illnesses aside) they are struggling with some serious issue. It's not so much that they've decided "meh, it's been fun but I've decided to put an egg in my shoe and beat it" but more so that they can't see a way past their problem. It's become so big, so consuming that they lose all hope. If these people thought there was a way past their issue, I'm sure the vast majority would chose to live.

Reindeer · 17-08-2014 10:31PM

How is it any less selfish to tell people what to do with their own lives?

RoadhouseBlues · 17-08-2014 10:34PM

My cousin in his 40's hung himself last year. He was havin' a really bad time of it for a few years beforehand. Hit the drink and wasn't getting work. It was sad to see him near the end. He turned into an old man to be honest. I don't think he would care if some people found it morally unacceptable. I don't think it is. And I hate when people say its the cowardly way out. Its brave if you think about it, because its the most unnatural thing to do. That might not make sense but I cant explain it.

Frank Lee Midere · 17-08-2014 10:37PM

Reindeer wrote: »

How is it any less selfish to tell people what to do with their own lives?

Because no man in an island. In particular people with non adult children have responsibilities.

Penny Tration · 17-08-2014 10:43PM

Maybe if there were better mental health services in place, the rate of suicide would drop.

As it is, this is what happened each time I used the public system -

Go to GP.

4 months wait to see psychiatrist, 2 if i was considered severely ill.

See a different psychiatrist each month, asked the same questions each month. Never managed to delve into anything.

As a result of only being asked the most basic of questions, i was incorrectly diagnosed more than once.

So, i got fed up, and went privately. Good god, the difference.

One week wait to see the psychiatrist. Same doctor at every bimonthly appointment. Given a correct diagnosis and proper treatment, and was stabilised within a year. With the public health system, i had no period of stability in 5 years.

The hse needs to sort their **** out.

bodice ripper · 17-08-2014 11:20PM

The cheek of 72% of people. I am of a good mind to go out and top myself, just to show them.

72% believe suicide to be morally unacceptable, do you agree?

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