Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

Cookiemunster · 17-08-2014 01:42PM

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Out of interest when's the last time we won a battle for a player when another major Club was interested?

Roy Keane???? :-) Didn't RVP choose us over City

How Soon Is Now · 17-08-2014 01:44PM

Outside of the premier league?

How Soon Is Now · 17-08-2014 01:45PM

kryogen wrote: »

He was being sarcastic, he is a member of the everything is ****e brigade as well.

Everything is awesome!!

Cookiemunster · 17-08-2014 01:46PM

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Outside of the premier league?

In that situation I'd say never. Ronaldinho, Moura, Hazard, Benzema off the top of my head.

kryogen · 17-08-2014 01:46PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Still of the opinion that Woodward is the problem, he just isn't good at transfers. I'm confident the money is there and the club is willing to spend it, we just can't actually get any deals done, and that is woodwards job. I don't believe for a second that LVG hadn't decided on any targets til a week ago as some argue.

I dunno, its tough on the one hand to say that Woodward, or someone above him is shrewd enough to spot this last season and keep him away from the Mata transfer but is not able to see it this season and say he is the problem.

If he was singled out as the problem last season, and action was taken as in the Mata transfer then why would it change this season?

How Soon Is Now · 17-08-2014 01:49PM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

In that situation I'd say never. Ronaldinho, Moura, Hazard, Benzema off the top of my head.

Ya I can't remember the last one there's bound to be at least one though?

Mitch Connor · 17-08-2014 01:49PM

kryogen wrote: »

I dunno, its tough on the one hand to say that Woodward, or someone above him is shrewd enough to spot this last season and keep him away from the Mata transfer but is not able to see it this season and say he is the problem.

If he was singled out as the problem last season, and action was taken as in the Mata transfer then why would it change this season?

no evidence, as far as I am aware, that Woodward was benched by the club during the mata transfer. From what I remember it was Woodward who wanted the deal done as it was because he didn't think the deal would happen if united made their interest known straight out the gate, and the worry Rooney would become part of the conversation if he tried to deal directly.

homerjay2005 · 17-08-2014 01:50PM

beno619 wrote: »

A new contract for Cleverley before a new player is signed could add to the "perfect storm" that was suggested is brewing a few pages back.

Imagine the anarchy if we announce a new sponsorship deal for some random noodle partner in Nepal tomorrow.

Part of me actually wants it to happen, just for the lols.

kryogen · 17-08-2014 01:52PM

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Everything is awesome!!

Wouldn't agree with that assessment either.

kryogen · 17-08-2014 01:53PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

no evidence, as far as I am aware, that Woodward was benched by the club during the mata transfer. From what I remember it was Woodward who wanted the deal done as it was because he didn't think the deal would happen if united made their interest known straight out the gate, and the worry Rooney would become part of the conversation if he tried to deal directly.

Which would demonstrate pretty good acumen when it comes to transfer dealings, so again it leaves us with a bit of a problem when declaring he is clueless or would be unable to recognise that he is the problem.

redbaron_99 · 17-08-2014 01:57PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I remember that season as well as you, the signs of our current problems were very evident that season and I bet my posts from the time would back up that opinion.

The oft repeated mantra that "these players won the league" is ignoring the fact that most of "these players" were shite that season as well.

I was being sarcastic

How Soon Is Now · 17-08-2014 01:58PM

kryogen wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with that assessment either.

Like I do myself! Ha.

beno619 · 17-08-2014 02:00PM

I think Woodward then the owners will come under fan pressure before LVG if things go belly up this year.

Mitch Connor · 17-08-2014 02:06PM

kryogen wrote: »

Which would demonstrate pretty good acumen when it comes to transfer dealings, so again it leaves us with a bit of a problem when declaring he is clueless

Does it? I don't think it counteracts the evidence we are seeing this summer. He removed himself from negotiations once, to spend a record fee on a player another club didn't want. It worked, but I don't think it was a stroke of genius.

I also think the mata deal actually highlights his failings.

Based on what I have been told by a few who would claim to have decent lines at e club, mata wasn't a moyes signing. He was a signing Woodward realised he could get done, and relief some of the pressure on the club re transfers. He was considered a player we could pass up, seemingly. We needed a central midfielder and a left back in January, instead we spent a fortune on a player we didn't really need and the manager couldn't use.

Woodward got his name, but failed in actually doing deals for the positions the club needed.

Again this summer we are seeing an inability to do the deals we need. Same as the previous summer. Same as January.

Shaw, Herrera and mata are all signings I like, but just a small piece of what he needed to do.

Add to this the fact he boasted weeks ago that there was no fixed budget and that we were working on targets that he been discussed with LVG over several weeks before hand. "Watch this space". So he has apparently been working on deals for more than a month (maybe two) and has done NOTHING.

I have no confidence in him to get the deals we actually need done in the next two weeks.

This summer is the real point of the start of uniteds decline IMO. We aren't going to make top 4 this season because we haven't got close to the number and quality of additions required, and a. Second season out of it will cement our position outside. It won't be a blip anymore, and will be confirmation of a terminal rott hat has been allowed to set in.

MagicMarker · 17-08-2014 02:08PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Even driving to the ground, walking up...something just didnt feel right.

Oh pu-lease...

NTMK · 17-08-2014 02:08PM

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Ya I can't remember the last one there's bound to be at least one though?

veron maybe?

we just dont have the same presence as the big 3 in europe do

Uniteds and liverpools greatest teams of the past have been formed with players from the UK and Ireland and so while the clubs are the 2 biggest in the uk and ireland not so much in europe

Real have always had a history of huge foreign stars puskas, di steffano, Sanchez etc

Barca have the same with maradona, Cruyff, romario

Bayern imo would struggle like us but their recent European runs and how they won the CL 2 years ago put them back up there and they also can get any german talent they desire

Bayern are the closest type of club to us and the difference in how bayern is run and how united is run is worrying to say the least

kryogen · 17-08-2014 02:16PM

The watch this space thing is the cross he has to bear alright, he seems foolish dealing with the media so far anyway.

I am in work, so wont have time to do a detailed reply right now, but suffice to say I see where you are coming from and understand/agree with bits.

Copper_pipe · 17-08-2014 02:16PM

:pac:

Deiseboy01 · 17-08-2014 02:18PM

Pro. F wrote: »

A pretty good game but wasteful sounds like a fair assessment of his performance in this game to me. In the second half anyway, when he was playing in a suitable position.

The incredible ease with which he changes direction and goes by players though is something truly exceptional. This guy is deserving of very high praise right now imo, not just the "he's doing well and he can develop" type of stuff that many people are going with.

I think he should be given a lot of regular football this season, he's not going to develop properly otherwise. I'm very worried that with our bloated attacking options and 3412 formation that that won't happen.

Personally I would start him in preference to Mata in the 10 role, is more mobile, direct, better change of pace, can go by a man easier.

Mata is a lovely player but one we didnt need. Money should have been spent elsewhere.

To me Mata slows our play. Jan would speed up our transition into the final third considerably.

Mitch Connor · 17-08-2014 02:21PM

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Personally I would start him in preference to Mata in the 10 role, is more mobile, direct, better change of pace, can go by a man easier.

Mata is a lovely player but one we didnt need. Money should have been spent elsewhere.

To me Mata slows our play. Jan would speed up our transition into the final third considerably.

I'd play him up top beside Rooney or RVP, with mata behind. Pace to stretch defence and licence to roam. He can play 10 too, but I reckon up top with a free role a la robben in the WC would suit him and us better.

Lord TSC · 17-08-2014 02:22PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'd play him up top beside Rooney or RVP, with mata behind. Pace to stretch defence and licence to roam. He can play 10 too, but I reckon up top with a free role a la robben in the WC would suit him and us better.

Given how Hernandez is pretty much void of confidence right now and looks to be on his way out, and with RVP and Welbeck out currently, I'd actually love to see Januzaj given that role....

homerjay2005 · 17-08-2014 02:25PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Because we don't need "competent" players. LVG has said it clearly; he wants upgrades on what we have. Other teams can sign players for a few million because "competent" is an upgrade, but we need top level players coming in.

On top of that, it's pretty obvious we...
1. Have money
2. Are desperate
..

Finally you are starting to see sense!

Lord TSC · 17-08-2014 02:28PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Finally you are starting to see sense!

I don't see how I've said anything there that doesn't line up with exactly what I've said all summer tbh....I've been saying all along that a top level CB and CM is needed....

titan18 · 17-08-2014 02:30PM

NTMK wrote: »

veron maybe?

we just dont have the same presence as the big 3 in europe do

Uniteds and liverpools greatest teams of the past have been formed with players from the UK and Ireland and so while the clubs are the 2 biggest in the uk and ireland not so much in europe

Real have always had a history of huge foreign stars puskas, di steffano, Sanchez etc

Barca have the same with maradona, Cruyff, romario

Bayern imo would struggle like us but their recent European runs and how they won the CL 2 years ago put them back up there and they also can get any german talent they desire

Bayern are the closest type of club to us and the difference in how bayern is run and how united is run is worrying to say the least

Tbf, it wasn't that long ago that Bayern failed to qualify for the CL in their own league. They just have far less competition and Germany produces better talent than England

Pro. F · 17-08-2014 02:40PM

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Personally I would start him in preference to Mata in the 10 role, is more mobile, direct, better change of pace, can go by a man easier.

Mata is a lovely player but one we didnt need. Money should have been spent elsewhere.

To me Mata slows our play. Jan would speed up our transition into the final third considerably.

That's a reasonable argument. It will be interesting to see Mata, Kagawa and possibly Adnan trying their hand in that 10 position, to see who can be most effective and versatile and what strikers they need ahead of them.

homerjay2005 · 17-08-2014 02:44PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Oh pu-lease...

Care to elaborate or describe how you found the mood of the fans around and inside the stadium yesterday then?

And while you are at it, please explain your need to quote only one part of my post and explain also why you feel that the mood/atmosphere of the fans isnt relevent to how the team plays.

Pro. F · 17-08-2014 02:45PM

Say we didn't sign any more players this window or in January, what would peoples' minimum expectations be for the season?

I would say that an absolute outside minimum this squad should be expected to finish would be sixth. And I would want to see ongoing improvements in the standard of play with that too.

The way a lot of people are talking, it's like they think yesterday's performance and result was unavoidable with the players available. I don't agree with that at all. The defensive shape was a mess, like it's been all pre-season, and attacking chemistry just didn't work. I'd be happy to give LVG plenty of time to sort both of those things out, but I wouldn't be accepting that type of performance with those players indefinitely.

Pro. F · 17-08-2014 02:48PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Care to elaborate or describe how you found the mood of the fans around and inside the stadium yesterday then?

And while you are at it, please explain your need to quote only one part of my post and explain also why you feel that the mood/atmosphere of the fans isnt relevent to how the team plays.

You go to a lot of games, you're not a fúcking mind reader. And it is completely obvious that you have been making your mind up about what the mood of the fans is for the past few weeks before you went to the game. Talking bollocks about twitter reactions and such.

You do this all the time, try to pretend that there is a consensus among the fans that supports your opinions. There isn't and your lack of self awareness of what you are doing is laughable.

kona · 17-08-2014 02:58PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Because we don't need "competent" players. LVG has said it clearly; he wants upgrades on what we have. Other teams can sign players for a few million because "competent" is an upgrade, but we need top level players coming in.

On top of that, it's pretty obvious we...
1. Have money
2. Are desperate
...so the selling club can just double their prices once we ask for a player.

From what I saw yesterday competent is a step up. Man utd need to get over themselves

NTMK · 17-08-2014 02:59PM

Pro. F wrote: »

Say we didn't sign any more players this window or in January, what would peoples' minimum expectations be for the season?

I would say that an absolute outside minimum this squad should be expected to finish would be sixth. And I would want to see ongoing improvements in the standard of play with that too.

5th based on other teams form from last year imo

The way a lot of people are talking, it's like they think yesterday's performance and result was unavoidable with the players available. I don't agree with that at all. The defensive shape was a mess, like it's been all pre-season, and attacking chemistry just didn't work. I'd be happy to give LVG plenty of time to sort both of those things out, but I wouldn't be accepting that type of performance with those players indefinitely.

we're going to have issues even if we had got the players we wanted imo its a new system.

the problem is that when we went 2-1 down yesterday we never looked like getting that goal back and thats why the place was emptying so quickly

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

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