Jewish group asks France to rename 'Death to Jews' hamlet

pickarooney · 13-08-2014 02:42PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Death to Jews is fine with people.
Also popular in the Middle Ages would be the following

Death to Queers
Death to Witches
Death to **** (moving onto upgraded Georgian times that one)
Death to Fenians (that'll be yourself)

They can keep their name - providing the Frogs (they brand people, so can I) admit that they lost their country in 4 days straight back in WW 2. They jumped into bed with the Nazis in terms of deportations to the camps (not just the Vichy regime) and grossly exaggerated the French Resistance to cover up their complicity.
On second thoughts, they should be made advertise the fact that they have a town called this on all their tourism posters both at home and abroad. Be proud of it. Be welcoming to your new kind of tourist.

I always find it hilarious when Irish people mock France's military prowess. It's like Vanuatu having a go at China.

FloatingVoter · 13-08-2014 02:44PM

pickarooney wrote: »

I always find it hilarious when Irish people mock France's military prowess. It's like Vanuatu having a go at China.

I can think of one war we won in the last century. Name one France did.

darkpagandeath · 13-08-2014 02:44PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Nope just pointing out the nonsense around the situation, If it was named that in WW2 yes i would agree. But it was not.

Mountainsandh · 13-08-2014 02:46PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

And you are deliberately ignoring my posts showing the scale of the "problem", and blowing this out of proportion, which in my opinion, is being obtuse too, in fairness.

Kiwi in IE · 13-08-2014 02:47PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Let me clarify, The issue would be the same for me if you insert any random group its a historical name. End of, And the group raised comment is that supposed to make me out as Anti Semitic ? Interesting so we have gone from a group in the states calling for this name change. To imaginary people living next to the place...

I am trying to make you out to be Anti Semetic now? How? Because I said you can't separate the issue from the group that raised it? I think any group that is in support of the current actions of Isreal in Palestine are a bunch of w***nkers, but that dosn't prevent me from acknowledging that this place name is offensive, horrendous and should be changed and also that this has feck all to do with the actions of Isreal.

13-08-2014 02:47PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Nope just pointing out the nonsense around the situation, If it was named that in WW2 yes i would agree. But it was not.

I don't think when it was named has much to do with the poisonous sentiment behind the name. It's not any less vicious for being old. It's offensive to the group it refers to and for the people living there to have to live with.

How anyone can argue for it's retention is beyond me. It's the 21st century, we should have moved past defending this kind of thing.

catallus · 13-08-2014 02:49PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I can think of one war we won in the last century. Name one France did.

What war did we win?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Ivorian_Civil_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%93present_Northern_Mali_conflict

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_African_Republic_conflict_(2012%E2%80%93present)

France is doing great peace-keeping work in Africa.

Tony EH · 13-08-2014 02:51PM

pickarooney wrote: »

I always find it hilarious when Irish people mock France's military prowess. It's like Vanuatu having a go at China.

It's a very "British" thing to do. :pac:

If they were in any way smart, they'd know that France has had way more success in their military history than failure.

Funny how defeat to the Germans in WWII is always the standout for simple minds.

DeadHand · 13-08-2014 02:52PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I can think of one war we won in the last century. Name one France did.

Name one worldwide empire the Irish have established? (British Empire doesn't count, though we helped immensely).

I can name one the French have.

We didn't win any war in the last century that we didn't have amongst ourselves. We simply avoided total defeat until the British came to the table in the War of Independence.

darkpagandeath · 13-08-2014 02:52PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I am trying to make you out to be Anti Semetic now? How? Because I said you can't separate the issue from the group that raised it? I think any group that is in support of the current actions of Isreal in Palestine are a bunch of w***nkers, but that dosn't prevent me from acknowledging that this place name is offensive, horrendous and should be changed and also that this has feck all to do with the actions of Isreal.

Sorry to disappoint I'm quite a bit older than the Current actions going on in Israel, I have no problem with Jews, Christians, Muslims. So please refrain from making up stuff, Find it quite amusing people automatically thinking omg your not agreeing because what Israel is doing today so you must be Anti Semitic.

Barely There · 13-08-2014 02:53PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

How do you know that there isn't a Jewish couple living close by this place who are offended and embarrassed by the place name but have never felt able to speak out about it for whatever reason?

How do you know that there isn't a frog living near that Jewish couple who is able to play Mozart's piano concerto in D flat major?

13-08-2014 02:53PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Find it quite amusing people automatically thinking omg your not agreeing because what Israel is doing today so you must be Anti Semitic.

Except no one said that.

Kiwi in IE · 13-08-2014 02:54PM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

And you are deliberately ignoring my posts showing the scale of the "problem", and blowing this out of proportion, which in my opinion, is being obtuse too, in fairness.

Thanks for the rude response, I was getting to you, busy answering the astounding posts from Darkpagandeath. Yes it's a small place in rural France and the name is not used on official documents. It's still officially called 'Death to Jews' though isn't it? Back to the hypothetical town in Ireland called 'Death to Catholics/Protestants'. Been like that for a couple of centuries, only three houses there, no one actually writes it down on official documents but that is the name none the less. Go down well do you think?

FloatingVoter · 13-08-2014 02:54PM

Its not cultural. It is and always was deliberately offensive. It would have been deliberately offensive in 1400. Towns have had to change names because the meanings of words change. "Death to Jews" would be a term recognisable to Chaucer.
We're not talking about some town called "Hamburger" because vegetarians have an issue.

darkpagandeath · 13-08-2014 02:55PM

Candie wrote: »

Except no one said that.

So you have no problem then with me not agreeing with the name change ?

Mountainsandh · 13-08-2014 02:55PM

Candie wrote: »

I don't think when it was named has much to do with the poisonous sentiment behind the name. It's not any less vicious for being old. It's offensive to the group it refers to and for the people living there to have to live with.

How anyone can argue for it's retention is beyond me. It's the 21st century, we should have moved past defending this kind of thing.

Thing is though, when it is a hamlet and does not affect the rest of the world really (again, no sign, no postal address), it should be up to the residents to decide if they're bothered. Not an organisation on the other side of the planet making a big deal over a couple of houses on a few acres with a place name that must appear on some old map only.

If it was the name of a street in town, or the name of a town, it would be different IMO.

13-08-2014 02:55PM

Barely There wrote: »

How do you know that there isn't a frog living near that Jewish couple who is able to play Mozart's piano concerto in D flat major?

Yes. That's so relevant and totally supports the view that a hamlet called Death to Jews has a perfectly inoffensive name and that people are finding offence where there is none intended.

Death To Jews. Nothing wrong with that at all, sure.

/Rolleyes temptation.

13-08-2014 02:56PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

So you have no problem then with me not agreeing with the name change ?

No, that's not what I said.

As you know.

FloatingVoter · 13-08-2014 02:57PM

DeadHand wrote: »

Name one worldwide empire the Irish have established? (British Empire doesn't count, though we helped immensely).

I can name one the French have.

We didn't win any war in the last century that we didn't have amongst ourselves. We simply avoided total defeat until the British came to the table in the War of Independence.

Cheers...you got it. Point of winning wars is avoiding total defeat. That's why war isn't a great situation to be in.

Their peace keeping efforts rank alongside our own.

Kiwi in IE · 13-08-2014 02:58PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint I'm quite a bit older than the Current actions going on in Israel, I have no problem with Jews, Christians, Muslims. So please refrain from making up stuff, Find it quite amusing people automatically thinking omg your not agreeing because what Israel is doing today so you must be Anti Semitic.

OK fair enough. So can you give any reason why you fail to see why a place called 'Death to Jews/Catholics/Muslims/Methodists/Amish' would be offensive to the group in question and why they might want a name change?

Reekwind · 13-08-2014 02:58PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What people ?

Ummm... any passing Jews?

...who knew about it apart from the locals or this for profit organisation. People are trying to make out it’s world news and a hotbed of activity. If the for profit organisation did not find out about it i doubt any of us would ever have heard of it. So it’s an absolute none issue.

Yes. It's a non-issue because you (ie not a Jew) had never heard of it and don't care about it. Is that how the world now works?

Seriously, let me know if the world no longer has to care about things that you know nothing about.

FloatingVoter wrote:

I can think of one war we won in the last century. Name one France did.

Try World War I :rolleyes:

Mountainsandh · 13-08-2014 02:59PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Thanks for the rude response, I was getting to you, busy answering the astounding posts from Darkpagandeath. Yes it's a small place in rural France and the name is not used on official documents. It's still officially called 'Death to Jews' though isn't it? Back to the hypothetical town in Ireland called 'Death to Catholics/Protestants'. Been like that for a couple of centuries, only three houses there, no one actually writes it down on official documents but that is the name none the less. Go down well do you think?

It would be a very interesting historical anecdote, just like the French example. I thought I was being pretty polite actually.

Cienciano · 13-08-2014 03:00PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Whoever has raised the issue, the name of the town is appalling, offensive and should have been changed a long time ago. Never mind the American group, it should be changed out of respect for Jewish people living in France. I fail to see how any reasonable person cannot see that this is a genuine reason to be offended, even if the group who have drawn attention to it have very questionable ethics on other issues. It is vastly different for example, from pathetic cries of offence when a religion that wants the law to discriminate against LGBT people is called a homophobic religion!

It's the name of a few fields, which had that name for 1000 years. Anyone who's offended by it should be told to fúck off.

darkpagandeath · 13-08-2014 03:00PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

OK fair enough. So can you give any reason why you fail to see why a place called 'Death to Jews/Catholics/Muslims/Methodists/Amish' would be offensive to the group in question and why they might want a name change?

Historical context, Age of the place name.

sarkozy · 13-08-2014 03:00PM

A town in Spain recently voted to change its name from something similar to something similar last month. The whole thing is, I think, related to the Crusades and, well, social media didn't exist then, so who knew? Or cared?

darkpagandeath · 13-08-2014 03:01PM

Reekwind wrote: »

Ummm... any passing Jews?

Yes. It's a non-issue because you (ie not a Jew) had never heard of it and don't care about it. Is that how the world now works?

Seriously, let me know if the world no longer has to care about things that you know nothing about.

Try World War I :rolleyes:

Where would they see the name ? Would they be using Ye old Google.maps ?

FloatingVoter · 13-08-2014 03:02PM

Reekwind wrote: »

Try World War I :rolleyes:

The part we're mainly aware of happened in France. France certainly did not win that war. They were a minor part of a vast Allied force that did win it.

Tony EH · 13-08-2014 03:03PM

I've just told my Jewish mate there's a town in France called "Death to the Jews"

He said said "Fkn 'ell...that's gas".

:pac:

Tony EH · 13-08-2014 03:08PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

The part we're mainly aware of happened in France. France certainly did not win that war. They were a minor part of a vast Allied force that did win it.

Ahem, they were actually a very major part of the Allied effort to win WWI. They were responsible for the lion's share of holding the Germans throughout the war.

Mountainsandh · 13-08-2014 03:10PM

This is completely blown out of proportion.
Since I'm French, I would take an example of a place name in some extremely remote spot of Ireland designating 2 fields and a few houses called : "death to the arrogant French".
Would I wring my hands, be stricken in shock and hurt, and demand the name be changed ?

Well 1) I would have to know about it in the first place, unlikely with no signs
2) in the unlikely event I did happen upon the name on a historical map, I would be fascinated and instantly want to know more about it
3) no, I would not demand a name change

Jewish group asks France to rename 'Death to Jews' hamlet

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