Working in agriculture- Born into it or a grown interest

frazzledhome · 04-08-2014 10:02AM

If young people are reading Boards they would be mad to get into farming.

Some here love the lifestyle but don't see it as a business that must make a return.

Anyway, dairy farmer STH Laois, nth Kk. Lovin every minute of it. Can't wait for quotas to go so tired of handing out money to retired dairy farmers for quota. Involved in 2 partnerships and always looking for people willing to challenge themselves

My philosophy is
" if you think you can't do it, you are probably right"

Farmer Pudsey · 04-08-2014 10:29AM

einn32 wrote: »

I was born on a farm which my father built up from very small. I always had an interest in it. I was made work on the farm from a young age. Think it helped me gain a good work ethic etc.!

A problem with lack of youth entering farming is that there is no reason for old lads to get out. Its a strange industry in that you don't retire usually for various reasons so its hard to expand. Its also seen as too hard a career etc.

Reason they do not exit is that it is too easy with historical payments to stay in busisness. Take a farmer with 60 acres and an SFP of over 400/HA. Stocked with 20 bullocks in a DA area. From the OAP he has 12.5K, SFP is 10K. DA is 1750. He cuts 20 acres of hay gets 200 bales that sell 30/bale( he always put them in hayshed and sell in February not too bothered if he hast to store for 3 years) so another 6K. He sells 25 acre of first and second cut to the Dairy farmer down the road at an average of 80/acre and makes 50 bales of silage off strong paddocks this allows him to buy his few cattle in Dec/Jan and put to grass in late Feb.

His costs are minimal, local dairy farmer has to export some slurry to him that goes on silage ground. Spends 2.5K on fertlizer and a few nuts for the bullocks in October. Because he is lowly stocked he is in Reps/AEOS that is worth another 4K/year. With the OAP he has over 30K/year. He is reluctant to lease as he has seen land after being rented and even at that most he would get would be 200/acre.

Reggie. · 04-08-2014 10:36AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Reason they do not exit is that it is too easy with historical payments to stay in busisness. Take a farmer with 60 acres and an SFP of over 400/HA. Stocked with 20 bullocks in a DA area. From the OAP he has 12.5K, SFP is 10K. DA is 1750. He cuts 20 acres of hay gets 200 bales that sell 30/bale( he always put them in hayshed and sell in February not too bothered if he hast to store for 3 years) so another 6K. He sells 25 acre of first and second cut to the Dairy farmer down the road at an average of 80/acre and makes 50 bales of silage off strong paddocks this allows him to buy his few cattle in Dec/Jan and put to grass in late Feb.

His costs are minimal, local dairy farmer has to export some slurry to him that goes on silage ground. Spends 2.5K on fertlizer and a few nuts for the bullocks in October. Because he is lowly stocked he is in Reps/AEOS that is worth another 4K/year. With the OAP he has over 30K/year. He is reluctant to lease as he has seen land after being rented and even at that most he would get would be 200/acre.

Horrible image there pudsey

Farmer Pudsey · 04-08-2014 10:40AM

Reggie. wrote: »

Horrible image there pudsey

If we cannot beat them Reggie we may just have to join them.

Reggie. · 04-08-2014 10:45AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If we cannot beat them Reggie we may just have to join them.

Yeah it's a hurdle I'm trying to get over myself but at least that info is explaining a few things for me

Greengrass1 · 04-08-2014 11:07AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Reason they do not exit is that it is too easy with historical payments to stay in busisness. Take a farmer with 60 acres and an SFP of over 400/HA. Stocked with 20 bullocks in a DA area. From the OAP he has 12.5K, SFP is 10K. DA is 1750. He cuts 20 acres of hay gets 200 bales that sell 30/bale( he always put them in hayshed and sell in February not too bothered if he hast to store for 3 years) so another 6K. He sells 25 acre of first and second cut to the Dairy farmer down the road at an average of 80/acre and makes 50 bales of silage off strong paddocks this allows him to buy his few cattle in Dec/Jan and put to grass in late Feb.

His costs are minimal, local dairy farmer has to export some slurry to him that goes on silage ground. Spends 2.5K on fertlizer and a few nuts for the bullocks in October. Because he is lowly stocked he is in Reps/AEOS that is worth another 4K/year. With the OAP he has over 30K/year. He is reluctant to lease as he has seen land after being rented and even at that most he would get would be 200/acre.

Sorry Pudsey but none of that would happen..most of those older generation farmers have been off the ball and none of those 60 ac farmers are making that much. Around here any way. They can't do all the used to so gradually the place falls into disrepair the hedges get over grown they don't spread any fert and they let the 20 bullocks Rome the 60acres. They make a hundred bales of hay and that's it.
They might have a big sfp from yrs ago when they were intensive prob 300/ha.
Its the way Irish were bred. Since the famine times. Land is everything and shame on you if you won't keep it in the family Around here some lads leave cattle out all winter some cattle might not even be killed till there 4yrs old.

Farmer Pudsey · 04-08-2014 11:14AM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Sorry Pudsey but none of that would happen..most of those older generation farmers have been off the ball and none of those 60 ac farmers are making that much. Around here any way. They can't do all the used to so gradually the place falls into disrepair the hedges get over grown they don't spread any fert and they let the 20 bullocks Rome the 60acres. They make a hundred bales of hay and that's it.
They might have a big sfp from yrs ago when they were intensive prob 300/ha.
Its the way Irish were bred. Since the famine times. Land is everything and shame on you if you won't keep it in the family Around here some lads leave cattle out all winter some cattle might not even be killed till there 4yrs old.

There are 2-3 around me at above and few younger fellas doing similar. Even the fella in your senario has over 15K as well before OAP. 8K SFP, DA, most of these lads are in REPS it amazed me at amount that were in it and his hay. There is no incentive to rent they can plod along and have a very good income. Some are as well off now as when they were stocked heavy.

epfff · 04-08-2014 12:37PM

Reggie. wrote: »

Horrible image there pudsey

a very true picture of around here except you left out that their sons are learning the trade while signing on as well and looking for cash nixers critising anyone who is tring and being a nusince to local council reporting slurry etc

einn32 · 04-08-2014 03:22PM

It's a shame to see the land waste away around me. Imagine if all the land was farmed as a proper business! used get annoyed with all of the above but I've learned patience is a huge asset in farming! It's best to keep your head down and reach your own goals. Every dog has its day!!

I think some young people that lose work or interest in thier job might think about farming as a career nowadays. I know one lad in such a situation. It's great to see.

agriman27 · 04-08-2014 05:51PM

It's tough for young people trying to get going properly at the farming game nowadays especially in areas where the land is poor and heavy. The cost of modernising a lot of run down farms can't be justified by the potential profit making output of the land, even the cost of land drainage and soil fertility has become a huge investment decision now. If the government wants to secure the future of the agri sector incentives will have to be implimented. Even sixty odd years ago farmers were going funding to keep land productive. Around my area there is no idle land there was a 90 acre farm beside made €18000 rent for the year and its in bad shape. Any farm that is idle has a story behind it

Reggie. · 04-08-2014 05:57PM

agriman27 wrote: »

It's tough for young people trying to get going properly at the farming game nowadays especially in areas where the land is poor and heavy. The cost of modernising a lot of run down farms can't be justified by the potential profit making output of the land, even the cost of land drainage and soil fertility has become a huge investment decision now. If the government wants to secure the future of the agri sector incentives will have to be implimented. Even sixty odd years ago farmers were going funding to keep land productive. Around my area there is no idle land there was a 90 acre farm beside made €18000 rent for the year and its in bad shape. Any farm that is idle has a story behind it

+1

Timmaay · 04-08-2014 10:30PM

I approached a local landowner afew months ago who appears to just cut afew bails of hay off it every year, and asked him if he would be interested in either renting it to me, or selling a 1st cut. He said straight out he was GLAS and he has to cut it as hay. Annoying, but I guess with the new GLAS looking as if it will close early I might get more opportunities around me.

farmerwifelet · 05-08-2014 11:31AM

Married into the farm life. Its hard going with the older generation - they didn't want to hand over the farm to my husband in case i ran off and wanted him to sell up. Very hard to get them to modernise in any way. I would turn the hay and help round up the cattle and would pitch in where i can. Its not an easy life and a big adjustment when coming from a non farming background. We have a small farm and are trying to make the best of what we have. Its hard though. The effort my husband puts in is herculean - he suffers with ill health and the returns are very small. but it gives him a reason to get up in the morning and there is a lot to be said for that.

milkprofit · 05-08-2014 07:59PM

rangler1 wrote: »

I wouldn't be too hopeful for dairying either, with the restricted supply at the moment, supermarkets haven't been really able to put the thumbscrews on milkprice yet like they have done with beef and lamb price

Dont know where u have been for last 10 years Supermarkets ave killed liquid milk we are getting 2 cents less for liquid !!!!!!1

larrymiller · 05-08-2014 08:03PM

milkprofit wrote: »

Dont know where u have been for last 10 years Supermarkets ave killed liquid milk we are getting 2 cents less for liquid !!!!!!1

Can someone explain liquid milk? Shura ain't it all liquid?

trixi2011 · 05-08-2014 09:56PM

larrymiller wrote: »

Can someone explain liquid milk? Shura ain't it all liquid?

Liquid milk is usually what ends up being sold in the supermarkets and manufacturing milk made into the likes of butter, cheese or dried into powder

Farmer Pudsey · 05-08-2014 10:02PM

larrymiller wrote: »

Can someone explain liquid milk? Shura ain't it all liquid?

Liquid milk is fresh milk. Traditionally this was a specialist production with contracts reflecting the commitment to winter production. However with co-op pushing shoulder production it has squeezed the necessity of specialist winter producers.

However it ois wrong to totally blame Supermarkets, a lot of the issue were the co-ops own fault. 15+ years ago they courted the supermarkets and gave branded milk to tesco at a discount this ledti the other supermarkets demanding it. At the time the 2L container was 99 pence in the supermarkets and they rose the piice to small shops to70 pence. At the same time supermarkets had a bread war. With a 3 children I remember it was worth a tenner on bread and milk alone to divert 2-3 toimes a week to collect same. Small shops had tpo react so now all shops have tobhve milk retail at around 1.70/2L.

larrymiller · 05-08-2014 10:06PM

Ah I see. And is it up to the farmer or the co-op which you supply?
Is that why some do winter milk etc?

Timmaay · 06-08-2014 01:56PM

larrymiller wrote: »

Ah I see. And is it up to the farmer or the co-op which you supply?
Is that why some do winter milk etc?

The co-ops needs a certain amount of liquid milk, and offer contracts to farmers to supply it. Traditionally you had certain areas where most farmers were one or the other, alot of farmers in the great Dublin area are liquid due to the higher demand there. Winter milk was seen as a very secure market traditionally, and it was hard for a new farmer to get in on it, however with continuous cuts in winter milk prices, alongside the extra labour requirements, farmers are getting out of it left right and centre and are concentrating their efforts on expanding their spring milk enterprises instead.

sandydan · 06-08-2014 09:04PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Liquid milk is fresh milk. Traditionally this was a specialist production with contracts reflecting the commitment to winter production. However with co-op pushing shoulder production it has squeezed the necessity of specialist winter producers.

However it ois wrong to totally blame Supermarkets, a lot of the issue were the co-ops own fault. 15+ years ago they courted the supermarkets and gave branded milk to tesco at a discount this ledti the other supermarkets demanding it. At the time the 2L container was 99 pence in the supermarkets and they rose the piice to small shops to70 pence. At the same time supermarkets had a bread war. With a 3 children I remember it was worth a tenner on bread and milk alone to divert 2-3 toimes a week to collect same. Small shops had tpo react so now all shops have tobhve milk retail at around 1.70/2L.

wonder who thought of "hello money" it wasn't coops afaik. but outlawing didn't work either,called it different name,still there ,
supermarkets could afford to sell milk cheaper at price farmer is getting and still make profit,why not sell it in "gallon " containers

rangler1 · 06-08-2014 09:21PM

milkprofit wrote: »

Dont know where u have been for last 10 years Supermarkets ave killed liquid milk we are getting 2 cents less for liquid !!!!!!1

You can still produce milk and make a profit.....so your price hasn't come under the same pressure as beef and lamb

sandydan · 06-08-2014 09:23PM

farmerwifelet wrote: »

Married into the farm life. Its hard going with the older generation - they didn't want to hand over the farm to my husband in case i ran off and wanted him to sell up. Very hard to get them to modernise in any way. I would turn the hay and help round up the cattle and would pitch in where i can. Its not an easy life and a big adjustment when coming from a non farming background. We have a small farm and are trying to make the best of what we have. Its hard though. The effort my husband puts in is herculean - he suffers with ill health and the returns are very small. but it gives him a reason to get up in the morning and there is a lot to be said for that.

im one of those who inherited farm after fathers death in case wife ran off with half.funny thing i hear fellas saying with all marriage breakups its unsafe to do anything other than that, how wheel turns right back to attitude we lambasted 30 years ago. like that id worked over 20 years off farm previouslly( still do) and all money pumped in so no option only stay put, too long waiting drains your get up and go by time you take over ,so farming system like pudsey describes just might take over , but in my case due to building up dairy numbers in reference years after being cleaned out with BSE previous year i had no entitlements so had to settle for on appeals for €200/hect. a few years later just one animal would be taken. i lost opportunity to purchase 30 acres nearby for £2,200 an acre right in middle of building slatted house and extending milking parlour, then prices of land rocketed to around £7,000 /acre,worked off farm- night shifts tractor and truck driving,etc it takes toll on bones and joints need replacing must fix a few hinges to put it mildly and not 60 yet

sandydan · 06-08-2014 09:43PM

rangler1 wrote: »

You can still produce milk and make a profit.....so your price hasn't come under the same pressure as beef and lamb

im out of dairying now due to herd health problems and some of my own . but with some dairy farm practices(and those are ones billed as best practices by ag advisers) i see around i doubt if some will break even, even if they get another good year like this one, some of those are totally over quota already with massive fines in store,as well i note some coops are talking prices down kind-of due to oversupply in world markets but that is in another thread so im not going there,
anyway i will finish by saying ladies and gentlemen we are all farming to make a living and don't get me wrong on this, please don't make this a "them and us" or " them Vs us" argument on farming incomes, the misiter of agfence will do enough damage without we showing him how to cut each others throats

Miname · 06-08-2014 10:51PM

I started out by renting a bit and then working in with the old fella and then buying a bit. Still have the old man about thank god and hopefully hes around to peg in a bit of critiscism for a long time yet. I have to admire lads that go out and start from scratch with no ground, its a serious undertaking and not to be sneezed at.

Muckit · 07-08-2014 02:44PM

'First time farmers" on tonight @ 10pm on channel 4.

UK based but should be a good watch.

Reggie. · 07-08-2014 03:48PM

Muckit wrote: »

'First time farmers" on tonight @ 10pm on channel 4.

UK based but should be a good watch.

Oh the blonde one

exercise is the antidote · 07-08-2014 03:52PM

Muckit wrote: »

'First time farmers" on tonight @ 10pm on channel 4.

UK based but should be a good watch.

They should do an Irish version

Working in agriculture- Born into it or a grown interest

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