Working in agriculture- Born into it or a grown interest

Greengrass1

whelan2 wrote: »

a lad down the road has silage bales at the edge of the field from 2012- would not sell them in the bad spring of 2013:mad:- then on the other side of them is the hay bales from 2013 , all outside, wonder what he will do this year .

Plenty of ppl like that around. Big difference around here in last ten yrs. All the lads that were part time farming and on the buildings have since gone full-time a lot of ground being used a lot better

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

a lad down the road has silage bales at the edge of the field from 2012- would not sell them in the bad spring of 2013:mad:- then on the other side of them is the hay bales from 2013 , all outside, wonder what he will do this year .

yes, so much land at the moment being abandoned, growing crops of ragwort, despite the ag colleges overflowing.......there was loads of silage bales in ditches from last year without making more for sale this year

whelan2

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Plenty of ppl like that around. Big difference around here in last ten yrs. All the lads that were part time farming and on the buildings have since gone full-time a lot of ground being used a lot better

problem around here is that there are alot of farms with no one to take over, people have lost interest. Only know 1 young lad that went to ag college recently .

Greengrass1

whelan2 wrote: »

problem around here is that there are alot of farms with no one to take over, people have lost interest. Only know 1 young lad that went to ag college recently .

Yep I'm the youngest in my area going farming. Next youngest lad in the area is near 30. Some very fine farms around here with big acres but sons have a much easier life with there jobs now. Can't blame them tbh when they see all the effort gone in and such little return from suvklers

rangler1

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Yep I'm the youngest in my area going farming. Next youngest lad in the area is near 30. Some very fine farms around here with big acres but sons have a much easier life with there jobs now. Can't blame them tbh when they see all the effort gone in and such little return from suvklers

Even farmers sons who have lost their jobs are giving farming a wide berth for fear of losing their dole....as you say who'd blame them

frazzledhome

rangler1 wrote: »

yes, so much land at the moment being abandoned, growing crops of ragwort, despite the ag colleges overflowing.......there was loads of silage bales in ditches from last year without making more for sale this year

What do you think needs to change? Tax relief on medium term leases doesn't seem to have done the trick.

I think a good add on to this would be relief if leasing to a company. Land owner can't lease with tax advantage to Co.

Greengrass1

frazzledhome wrote: »

What do you think needs to change? Tax relief on medium term leases doesn't seem to have done the trick.

I think a good add on to this would be relief if leasing to a company. Land owner can't lease with tax advantage to Co.

I don't think a tax incentive will make more young people enter . can't pay tax if ye can't make money out of farming and not everyone can milk cows

rangler1

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I don't think a tax incentive will make more young people enter . can't pay tax if ye can't make money out of farming and not everyone can milk cows

I wouldn't be too hopeful for dairying either, with the restricted supply at the moment, supermarkets haven't been really able to put the thumbscrews on milkprice yet like they have done with beef and lamb price

Greengrass1

rangler1 wrote: »

I wouldn't be too hopeful for dairying either, with the restricted supply at the moment, supermarkets haven't been really able to put the thumbscrews on milkprice yet like they have done with beef and lamb price

Don't think it will happen like beef. Beef is sort of a one trick pony. ie beef is beef. Where as milk is not just milk can be used for such a variety of products. It will be the processors that will control milk IMO not so much the supermarkets.
I hope I'm right

Farmer Pudsey

One of the biggest fears of beef farmers is that increased production will not lead to an increase in income. They feel there are two reasons for that. The first is that increased production leads to increased costs and the increased costs may not generate the return. The other is that the processors when we exceed 30K kill/week drop the price and this can generate losses.

Take meal feeding it is only the most efficient cattle that return a margin over the cost. For instance Winter finishing is based on trying to buy cattle at below the cost of production so as to generate a margin

Taking an animal that will be slaughtered at 700kgs LW he will require about 12kgDM/day during the finishing period.In general last year finishing diets cost 3/day. The base price was 3.8/kg even the most efficient cattle were losing money at that base price. Finishing Freisians steers out of a shed would be losing you a euro/day over costs.

I often wonder how the rest of Europe can generate profit from cattle production. There cost of production cannot be much lower when you take it most cattle are finished out of feedlots all year around. I know that by products reduce costs however there overall cost of production cannot be any lower than ours.

moy83

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I don't think a tax incentive will make more young people enter . can't pay tax if ye can't make money out of farming and not everyone can milk cows

You're right there gg , paying tax is the least of most suckler farmers problems . You would want a massive run of land for cows to give a wage . I was talking to a lad that was given the home farm recently , his plans were to apply for any scheme going for grants and the farm assist ! No mention of more cows or improving land . God help us if farm assist and AEOS was his future on the farm but it was probably the best way of getting money from his farm all the same :mad:

frazzledhome

rangler1 wrote: »

I wouldn't be too hopeful for dairying either, with the restricted supply at the moment, supermarkets haven't been really able to put the thumbscrews on milkprice yet like they have done with beef and lamb price

Your 100% correct if its Liquid milk, supermarkets have full control and will bury it. As far as Manu milk yes things will tighten as the US ramp up. The one thing we have is a better organised industry that's well funded. Wouldn't be too pessimistic about it.

High levels of bad debt will put the pressure on at farm level. Price will only be the trigger

Farmer Pudsey

rangler1 wrote: »

I wouldn't be too hopeful for dairying either, with the restricted supply at the moment, supermarkets haven't been really able to put the thumbscrews on milkprice yet like they have done with beef and lamb price

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Don't think it will happen like beef. Beef is sort of a one trick pony. ie beef is beef. Where as milk is not just milk can be used for such a variety of products. It will be the processors that will control milk IMO not so much the supermarkets.
I hope I'm right

Green grass is right, beef has a limited shelf life. Milk powder, cheese and butter have long shelf lives. Our cost of milk production is much lower than other countries. If milk falls below 30c/L feedlot milk producers just slaughter cows as they are losing money. The recent milk price spike is due to the really low price was it 3 years ago. That caused massive reduction in capacity across the US and Europe that is slow to recover. Also the consumption of dairy products is increasing.

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

problem around here is that there are alot of farms with no one to take over, people have lost interest. Only know 1 young lad that went to ag college recently .

The other side to that is that there are young people out there that can't get into the farming.

I never lived on a farm but was always drawn to it. I was lucky enough the way things fell together for me that I ended up with the little bit I have to keep the interest going.

The future is a different matter as I would love to gear up for running a larger farm when I retire in a few years but the future here isn't layer out yet....If ya can read between the lines . So its hard to know what to do and it's a conversation that can't be brought up with certain people.

I'm sure there is people out there in similar situations

larrymiller

Reggie. wrote: »

The other side to that is that there are young people out there that can't get into the farming.

I never lived on a farm but was always drawn to it. I was lucky enough the way things fell together for me that I ended up with the little bit I have to keep the interest going.

The future is a different matter as I would love to gear up for running a larger farm when I retire in a few years but the future here isn't layer out yet....If ya can read between the lines . So its hard to know what to do and it's a conversation that can't be brought up with certain people.

I'm sure there is people out there in similar situations

Jez how old are ya?

Reggie.

larrymiller wrote: »

Jez how old are ya?

Trade secret

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

The other side to that is that there are young people out there that can't get into the farming.

I never lived on a farm but was always drawn to it. I was lucky enough the way things fell together for me that I ended up with the little bit I have to keep the interest going.

The future is a different matter as I would love to gear up for running a larger farm when I retire in a few years but the future here isn't layer out yet....If ya can read between the lines . So its hard to know what to do and it's a conversation that can't be brought up with certain people.

I'm sure there is people out there in similar situations

is this not where partnerships come in to play?

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

is this not where partnerships come in to play?

True but in my case not a hope in hell. But as a general solution quite possibly the answer.

Will Young lads go do the green cert on the HOPE of getting a partnership is the thing

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

True but in my case not a hope in hell. But as a general solution quite possibly the answer.

Will Young lads go do the green cert on the HOPE of getting a partnership is the thing

i dont know but sure if they dont ask they wont get, i am sure there are many farmers that would be interested if the right person came along

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

i dont know but sure if they dont ask they wont get, i am sure there are many farmers that would be interested if the right person came along

Can't talk for everyone but that would be witchcraft to some of the older folk around here

Greengrass1

whelan2 wrote: »

i dont know but sure if they dont ask they wont get, i am sure there are many farmers that would be interested if the right person came along

How do you approach these farmers? I think this deserves a thread if its own tbh

frazzledhome

Reggie. wrote: »

True but in my case not a hope in hell. But as a general solution quite possibly the answer.

Will Young lads go do the green cert on the HOPE of getting a partnership is the thing

Reality is, Ag colleges half full of people looking to get greencert in order to inherit farm and continue on a career path outside farming. All the talk of young farmers, nice notion for the politicians to talk about

larrymiller

Reggie. wrote: »

Trade secret

So you're old so

Greengrass1

frazzledhome wrote: »

Reality is, Ag colleges half full of people looking to get greencert in order to inherit farm and continue on a career path outside farming. All the talk of young farmers, nice notion for the politicians to talk about

When I was there anyone that did second yr intended to go home farming. Majority that decided to continue second yr out side are not farming at home now. Now don't get me wrong some are but most are not.
Out of my dairy group of 25. There was 3 who had no home farm but were talented and knew as much if not more about farming than us that grew up on farms.
If you take that figure of 3 out of every 25 to keep the industry growing its not looking very promising

Reggie.

larrymiller wrote: »

So you're old so

Could be younger than you

Reggie.

Greengrass1 wrote: »

When I was there anyone that did second yr intended to go home farming. Majority that decided to continue second yr out side are not farming at home now. Now don't get me wrong some are but most are not.
Out of my dairy group of 25. There was 3 who had no home farm but were talented and knew as much if not more about farming than us that grew up on farms.
If you take that figure of 3 out of every 25 to keep the industry growing its not looking very promising

One of them three would be my future brother in law. Did same as you but no home farm.

He is currently managing a 600 cow diary farm in the midlands with one labourer

moy83

Reggie. wrote: »

One of them three would be my future brother in law. Did same as you but no home farm.

He is currently managing a 600 cow diary farm in the midlands with one labourer

There is absolutely no reason why someone with no background in farming cant be as good if not better in agriculture than someone that grew up on a farm .
It might even have advantages .

Reggie.

moy83 wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason why someone with no background in farming cant be as good if not better in agriculture than someone that grew up on a farm .
It might even have advantages .

I agree fully you just have to look at what the BIL
Is doing from a non farming background. Trouble is brewing tho in the future

Kovu

Do you want me to move some of these posts to a new thread? It's not particularly hijacking the thread but it would be an interesting topic on its own, especially if a poll was a added to see who comes from a farming background & who doesn't.

Greengrass1

.Kovu. wrote: »

Do you want me to move some of these posts to a new thread? It's not particularly hijacking the thread but it would be an interesting topic on its own, especially if a poll was a added to see who comes from a farming background & who doesn't.

Ye I think it would make for an interesting discussion

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

I agree fully you just have to look at what the BIL
Is doing from a non farming background. Trouble is brewing tho in the future

have said it many times, its hard enough to get good workers as it is what will it be like in the future?

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

have said it many times, its hard enough to get good workers as it is what will it be like in the future?

True but the opposite is happening too. The fella that the BIL works for refuses to get more help for him. So he's gone from a huge interest in cattle to planning to be in a different job in a few years

Kovu

Posts moved from Beef general thread-

If you would like other poll options, please comment to this. Or if you have an easier/more suitable title.

Slightly busy so only half thought about the current one.

rangler1

Reggie. wrote: »

True but the opposite is happening too. The fella that the BIL works for refuses to get more help for him. So he's gone from a huge interest in cattle to planning to be in a different job in a few years

'pay peanuts and you get monkeys'
always say that here

Greengrass1

How will are young farmers going to go about getting into farming? They don't want to be working for someone all there lives

whelan2

rangler1 wrote: »

'pay peanuts and you get monkeys'
always say that here

the people are not there to do the work, i put an ad in the journal around this time last year, i had to turn my phone off, between electricians, plumbers,etc. I gave up. Yes i was going to give the right person a good package, in future i will get someone through the frs or an agency as my head was wrecked trying to deal with the calls/time wasters. Maybe i was unlucky but i will never advertise a job in the journal again.

Roundbale

Reggie. wrote: »

Trade secret

If only we could all retire at 40! Some scam :-)

whelan2

Greengrass1 wrote: »

How will are young farmers going to go about getting into farming? They don't want to be working for someone all there lives

they have to start somewhere, the whole system is wrong , just look at the work placements from ag colleges, no one can get into the system , same farmers in it for years

Greengrass1

whelan2 wrote: »

they have to start somewhere, the whole system is wrong , just look at the work placements from ag colleges, no one can get into the system , same farmers in it for years

Very true. Numerous of the ppl I was in Kildalton with were very unhappy with there placement. Maybe the student should get to choose someone in his area or a farmer he knows to work for?

Reggie.

Roundbale wrote: »

If only we could all retire at 40! Some scam :-)

Jaysus 40 is old to be retiring

moy83

Greengrass1 wrote: »

How will are young farmers going to go about getting into farming? They don't want to be working for someone all there lives

It wouldn't be the end of the world not to be self employed or own your own farm .
If you were on the right farm , allowed work off your own initiative and be involved in decision making I'd say it could be a very enjoyable area to work in without the stress of actually being self employed . If there was full time work on a farm near me and the money was decent I would much prefer it over working on the buildings .

I know its not easy to start out farming without land but it can be done nonetheless , just might take a bit of time. Partnerships , or share farming would be a good way forward . Or even starting out renting what you can afford and building up stock .
That maybe a good use for suckler cows in building up numbers . If you started out with ten suck calves on a few acres and reared them for the bull while adding a few heifer calves every year until you had calves born yourself for selling .
They could be kept reasonably cheap on rough grazing all the while raising numbers as equity and proving to the bank that you can make it work .
If you had 40/50 cattle for selling and the right farm came up for rent the bank should be able to finance some of what you need to get going at a small dairy by that stage .

agriman27

The lack of retirement incentives for older farmers is a big stumbling block for the next generation of farmers. The fact that farmers become almost tax exempt after they get the pension is an incentive for them to hang on for even longer. A lot of my friends in there twenties and thirties are mad to leave and get off farm work because they are fed up taking orders from their fathers and the have no say. Then when they do finally get the regins the farm is run down and the young men find it difficult without the steady wage

mf240

rangler1 wrote: »

'pay peanuts and you get monkeys'
always say that here

Monkeys wont even work for peanuts around here, too busy on the dole.

Reggie.

agriman27 wrote: »

The lack of retirement incentives for older farmers is a big stumbling block for the next generation of farmers. The fact that farmers become almost tax exempt after they get the pension is an incentive for them to hang on for even longer. A lot of my friends in there twenties and thirties are mad to leave and get off farm work because they are fed up taking orders from their fathers and the have no say. Then when they do finally get the regins the farm is run down and the young men find it difficult without the steady wage

Exactly

frazzledhome

agriman27 wrote: »

The lack of retirement incentives for older farmers is a big stumbling block for the next generation of farmers. The fact that farmers become almost tax exempt after they get the pension is an incentive for them to hang on for even longer. A lot of my friends in there twenties and thirties are mad to leave and get off farm work because they are fed up taking orders from their fathers and the have no say. Then when they do finally get the regins the farm is run down and the young men find it difficult without the steady wage

That is such a good point. I know there was a certain amount of abuse of that system. If it wasn't for the early retirement scheme I wouldn't have got going. Leased a farm from an enlightened gent who stood back and trusted me, if only there were more like him??

Greengrass1

frazzledhome wrote: »

That is such a good point. I know there was a certain amount of abuse of that system. If it wasn't for the early retirement scheme I wouldn't have got going. Leased a farm from an enlightened gent who stood back and trusted me, if only there were more like him??

Let you make your own mistakes. You learn very quick when you make your own

Reggie.

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Let you make your own mistakes. You learn very quick when you make your own

Only way to get experience

freedominacup

moy83 wrote: »

It wouldn't be the end of the world not to be self employed or own your own farm .
If you were on the right farm , allowed work off your own initiative and be involved in decision making I'd say it could be a very enjoyable area to work in without the stress of actually being self employed . If there was full time work on a farm near me and the money was decent I would much prefer it over working on the buildings .

I know its not easy to start out farming without land but it can be done nonetheless , just might take a bit of time. Partnerships , or share farming would be a good way forward . Or even starting out renting what you can afford and building up stock .
That maybe a good use for suckler cows in building up numbers . If you started out with ten suck calves on a few acres and reared them for the bull while adding a few heifer calves every year until you had calves born yourself for selling .
They could be kept reasonably cheap on rough grazing all the while raising numbers as equity and proving to the bank that you can make it work .
If you had 40/50 cattle for selling and the right farm came up for rent the bank should be able to finance some of what you need to get going at a small dairy by that stage .

W2, dar and myself did the same course in the UK back in the day. I don't know what the intake was like when they did it but around 30% of the students in my year were not from farms. The top student was the third generation of his family to work as dairy herdsmen and left most of the farmers sons trailing far behind on theory and practical work. He was depending on his results for future employment though whereas many of the rest of us were keen to learn without killing ourselves secure in the knowledge that we were heading home at the end of the year or shortly after.

The herdsmen on both farms where I did work experience had no farm ownership in their background. One of them was the seventh generation of his family to work as a dairy herdsman. We have no tradition of people making a career in farming probably due to farm size but it may develop. This was totally different to nz as there was no share farming or other route to progress into farm ownership for these guys but they were working at a career they enjoyed in the main and there was career progression in that there were opportunities to move onto bigger farms and better pay and conditions as you gained experience and proved yourself.

Sam Kade

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Plenty of ppl like that around. Big difference around here in last ten yrs. All the lads that were part time farming and on the buildings have since gone full-time a lot of ground being used a lot better

What does stockpiling bales have to do with thread title

I said

Sam Kade wrote: »

What does stockpiling bales have to do with thread title

I think it's the amount of lazy fcukers who have it handed to them that pisses people off

trixi2011

Well I wasn't born or raised on a farm. supposedly I was a little bastard as a child so I was sent to my uncles each summer for some manual work to quieten me down. I suppose this is were I got my interest from.