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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

1…7374767879…174

Comments

  • #2252
    Smiles35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    Red Pepper wrote: »
    I am curious, I hear a lot about Hamas rockets being fired into Israel but do they do any damage or kill people? What kind of rockets are they?

    I wonder that myself. I wonder is it mostly an even more childish and foolish follow-up to the 'lashing bricks at the IDF thing.


  • #2253
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    Red Pepper wrote: »
    I am curious, I hear a lot about Hamas rockets being fired into Israel but do they do any damage or kill people? What kind of rockets are they?

    Im also curious about this, i had heard that they had proper iranian made rockets to start with.

    When they fall in gaza (according to the israeli propaganda department) they seem to cause massive damage, but not so when they fall in israel.


  • #2254
    comongethappy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    eeepaulo wrote: »
    Im also curious about this, i had heard that they had proper iranian made rockets to start with

    Most are home made.
    With about 5-10kg of explosives.

    The larger Iranian ones are much fewer & bigger, but still unguided.... so of limited use.


  • #2255
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    eeepaulo wrote: »
    Im also curious about this, i had heard that they had proper iranian made rockets to start with.

    When they fall in gaza (according to the israeli propaganda department) they seem to cause massive damage, but not so when they fall in israel.
    Well that's where the US/Israel/apologist verbal gymnastics come in. We're unstoppably powerful ya know with Iron Dome etc. but apparently we're still sitting ducks for joke shop firecrackers threatening our very existence, so we need nuclear weapons and unconditional US backing.


  • #2256
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,674 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Most are home made.
    With about 5-10kg of explosives.

    The larger Iranian ones are much fewer & bigger, but still unguided.... so of limited use.

    It looks like the Israeli / US ones are unguided as well as Israel and their apologists keep claiming they don't target civilians and yet most of their missiles are killing civilians


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  • #2257
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    I had a quick read of both BBC and RTE this morning, (just the main article on each)

    I now know the name of a soldier who died, his rank, his commanding officer, where he is from, when his funeral is and who he is related to.

    I also have an estimate of how many of the others died.


  • #2258
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    It looks like the Israeli / US ones are unguided as well as Israel and their apologists keep claiming they don't target civilians and yet most of the missiles are killing civilians
    I guess we'll be told next that Hamas aim at civilians whereas the IDF don't, even when the IDF are killing a thousand times as many civilians.


  • #2259
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    eeepaulo wrote: »
    I had a quick read of both BBC and RTE this morning, (just the main article on each)

    I now know the name of a soldier who died, his rank, his commanding officer, where he is from, when his funeral is and who he is related to.

    I also have an estimate of how many of the others died.
    I missed it. Which side was he on need I guess?


  • #2260
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I missed it. Which side was he on need I guess?

    I said soldier not evil terrorist


  • #2261
    Lone Stone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Lone Stone


    This is an interesting watch, from a discharged idf soldier. Its a bit long.

    The talk by Eran Efrati was filmed in Denver, Colorado on March 3, 2014 as part of The Soldier and the Refusenik U.S. tour with Maya Wind. Eran talk about his experiences in the IDF and then more broadly discusses Israel, its relationship to the U.S. and the global expansion of militarism



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  • #2262
    comongethappy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    It looks like the Israeli ones are unguided as well

    A lot are unguided alright.

    There was pictures of folks taking pictures sitting on one that turned out to be a dud.

    Plus all the artillery is basically aimed by guessing.


  • #2263
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    comongethappy wrote: »
    A lot are unguided alright.

    There was pictures of folks taking pictures sitting on one that turned out to be a dud.

    Plus all the artillery is basically aimed by guessing.
    Well it's not guessing if the target is "Gaza". Hitting schools and hospitals might take a bit more finesse.


  • #2264
    donegal__road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 953 ✭✭✭donegal__road


    Dear Israelis

    You need to know that your latest onslaught in Gaza guarantees that as a nation, you will be loathed and reviled by growing numbers of people around the world. No, not because you are jewish- that doesn’t come into it, but because you murder civilians in their 100s with your high-tech weaponry. Because you have burnt little children, blown their limbs off, killed their parents, their brothers and sisters, grandparents, aunts and uncles.


    Article on Broadsheet.ie


  • #2265
    NotASheeple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭NotASheeple


    notfromhere wrote: »
    RIP to the 64 murdering zionist stormtroopers.


    Fixed the obvious typo there.


  • #2266
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    NotASheeple wrote: »
    Fixed the obvious typo there.
    Isn't there a requirement for sarcasm not to be a readily believable statement in the first place?


  • #2267
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    Lone Stone wrote: »
    This is an interesting watch, from a discharged idf soldier. Its a bit long.

    The talk by Eran Efrati was filmed in Denver, Colorado on March 3, 2014 as part of The Soldier and the Refusenik U.S. tour with Maya Wind. Eran talk about his experiences in the IDF and then more broadly discusses Israel, its relationship to the U.S. and the global expansion of militarism

    Thats actually quite frightening.


  • #2268
    h2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭h2005


    Contributor 2013 wrote: »
    When you elect a government that does random rockets attacks towards a much bigger nation. Un-guided rockets etc, do you not set your self up to be recipients of the retaliation?

    Just wondering...

    The thing is what you're seeing isn't retaliation the Israeli offensive preceded the rockets. Just saying....


  • #2269
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    eeepaulo wrote: »
    Im also curious about this, i had heard that they had proper iranian made rockets to start with.

    When they fall in gaza (according to the israeli propaganda department) they seem to cause massive damage, but not so when they fall in israel.

    That's a very good point because there was an article posted that suggested the effectiveness of the Iron Dome system was essentially a myth (5% success) and so one can't help wondering why there are not more civilian casualties or even structural damage.


  • #2270
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    h2005 wrote: »
    The thing is what you're seeing isn't retaliation the Israeli offensive preceded the rockets. Just saying....
    Well it's just another lie from the Zionists and their online apologists. If you besiege Gaza, when they fight back it's them that are the aggressor apparently. More word redefintiton hilarity: "attacker" is this week what we were calling "defender" last week.


  • #2271
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    That's a very good point because there was an article posted that suggested the effectiveness of the Iron Dome system was essentially a myth (5% success) and so one can't help wondering why there are not more civilian casualties or even structural damage.


    Very wrong, it's actually highly effective ~90%. It does however analyse the incoming rocket and if it's deemed not to hit a densely populated area it will not intercept it letting it land in what they call an "open area". But that does not necessarily mean unpopulated, there are pockets of smaller villages in these areas towards the south.


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  • #2272
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    cisk wrote: »
    Very wrong, it's actually highly effective ~90%. It does however analyse the incoming rocket and if it's deemed not to hit a densely populated area it will not intercept it letting it land in what they call an "open area". But that does not necessarily mean unpopulated, there are pockets of smaller villages in these areas towards the south.
    Citation for this or any other stats about Iron Dome on this thread?


  • #2273
    carpejugulum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 523 ✭✭✭carpejugulum


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Now you can play the newspeak game too!
    Where's your definion of "jihadist" that doesn't also cover "Zionist" pretty much to a T?
    Can you answer the question or is whataboutery all you can do?


  • #2274
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    cisk wrote: »
    Very wrong, it's actually highly effective ~90%. It does however analyse the incoming rocket and if it's deemed not to hit a densely populated area it will not intercept it letting it land in what they call an "open area". But that does not necessarily mean unpopulated, there are pockets of smaller villages in these areas towards the south.

    Well here's the article for you to read

    http://scholarsandrogues.com/2014/07/29/the-contrails-have-it-iron-dome-is-a-dud/

    The 90% figure is reported in the article but the analysis suggests this is not borne up by the facts. Can you provide an article that counteracts these claims? I don't think it's wise to accept things at face value just because it's stated by a government official.


  • #2275
    h2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭h2005


    carpejugulum wrote: »
    How do you describe jihadists?

    Here you go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihadism
    How do you describe Islamophobia and fear mongering?


  • #2276
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_diplomacy_%28Israel%29

    I'm sure there is nothing new to anyone here, do the IPSC or others have a formal list of people i should be contacting?

    Senator Norris made mention of the organised campaign he is receiving in his appropriate rant in the seanad the other day.


  • #2277
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    carpejugulum wrote: »
    Can you answer the question or is whataboutery all you can do?
    Well one is a religious fundamentalist claiming a divine right to certain territory regardless of who currently owns it the other... hmm, where was I going with this?
    The original point which you seem to not have bothered to read was about posters in the US saying Jihadists are savages while Zionists are civilised. You have yet to provide your own definition which dfferentitates between the two, but be my guest.


  • #2278
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    Well here's the article for you to read

    http://scholarsandrogues.com/2014/07/29/the-contrails-have-it-iron-dome-is-a-dud/

    The 90% figure is reported in the article but the analysis suggests this is not borne up by the facts. Can you provide an article that counteracts these claims? I don't think it's wise to accept things at face value just because it's stated by a government official.
    That's all I can find too. The well acknowledged liar IDF and Zionist propaganda machine say one thing, anything close to an independent analysis says the exact opposite.


  • #2279
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    notfromhere wrote: »
    RIP the 64 Israeli soldiers.

    Interesting thing to say, in light of the IDF targeting and murdering children, and civilians in general......

    Doubly so, that you don't seem to give a hoot about Palestinian and Israeli civilians (over a 1000 Palestinian and 3 Israelis).

    Now me personally, I have no time for Hamas, who target civilians, and I have no time for the IDF either, as they also target civilians, and I have 0 sympathy for anyone who dies, while involved in a campaign to murder civilians. They are deserving of no respect, and in fact deserve our scorn.


  • #2280
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    The meat of the article (the bit you didn't quote) is probably the best bit of it referring to an apparent lack of personnel capability. Lack of calibration was one thought which came to mind as I read your quote segment. There are a couple of other possibilities, though. For example, if it's correctly calibrated, and the artillery or mortar rounds actually were correctly fired, then that means that the Hamas fire came from the area of the UN building. It wouldn't surprise me that the occasional Israeli gunner was actually competent. The other problem is that bulldings are three dimensional entities, but I've never seen a no fire zone system which operates on anything other than a 2 dimensional map. So Shilem reports a grid, it's outside the area of the UN grounds, but the computer has no way of knowing that the four story building rises up to intersect the line of flight of the rounds. Rounds are fired, and that's that.

    Well I provided a quote which was relevant to previous discussions as a means to encourage people to read the article. I do agree that the main substance of the article was the lack of properly trained military personnel. I think that's something that could be discussed along with the fact that some of these personnel are not enlisted on a 'volunteer' basis as you yourself were. I think that it's important to discuss when acknowledging that perhaps some do not wish to be pushed into a combat situation but have no choice and their deaths are not something that anybody should suggest was of their own making.

    http://tinyurl.com/mcu3atw


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  • #2281
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    cisk wrote: »
    Very wrong, it's actually highly effective ~90%. It does however analyse the incoming rocket and if it's deemed not to hit a densely populated area it will not intercept it letting it land in what they call an "open area". But that does not necessarily mean unpopulated, there are pockets of smaller villages in these areas towards the south.
    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    Well here's the article for you to read

    http://scholarsandrogues.com/2014/07/29/the-contrails-have-it-iron-dome-is-a-dud/

    The 90% figure is reported in the article but the analysis suggests this is not borne up by the facts. Can you provide an article that counteracts these claims? I don't think it's wise to accept things at face value just because it's stated by a government official.


    I think that when assertions are made with such categorical certainty then others are to assume a specialist knowledge and I believe there is an onus in a debating forum such as this to substantiate such claims or else a suspicion of bias would be a necessary consequence. I do not know how anybody could know with absolute certainty the truth of such matters without inside specialist knowledge.


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