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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • #1922
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    So the IDF continuing military operations is now termed a "ceasefire" but Hamas doing the same is "breaking a ceasefire".
    IDF capture Hamas? POW.
    Hamas capture IDF? Kidnap.
    IDF invade Gaza? Defensive.
    Hamas defend Gaza? Terrorist.


    I feel like putting my dictionary in the bin at this stage when it comes to Zionist apologists, 'cos none of these words mean what they meant a week ago.


  • #1923
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Mosby61 wrote: »
    I do sympathise with Israel as I know exactly what position they find themselves in with the world turning against them due to a large amount of propaganda.

    I think a ceasefire is a must and will happen soon.

    I think the world is turning against them due to a large amount of dead innocent babys.


  • #1924
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Mosby61 wrote: »
    Completely ignoring Hamas and the role they play in this? Hiding weapons in schools and hospitals and breaking ceasefires. Not to mention the atrocious Hamas charter.
    All of which has just been proven false.
    There was no ceasefire as Israel was continuing military operations in Gaza.
    There are no weapons in the UN inspected civilian shelters that Israel deliberately destroy.
    Just because you say these things again doesn't make them true.


  • #1925
    user2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    Mosby61 wrote: »
    Completely ignoring Hamas and the role they play in this? Hiding weapons in schools and hospitals and breaking ceasefires. Not to mention the atrocious Hamas charter.

    Propaganda :o


  • #1926
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    wes wrote: »
    That is a valid question, and what I am getting at. Look its perfectly possible that Hamas broke the ceasefire, but I find the entire story from the UN to make no sense. They condemn Hamas, and they say they have no way to verify what happened. So what the hell are they up to exactly?

    They have a very, very good idea who broke the ceasefire, based on evidence in front of them, but they have to give a caveat in case they were proved wrong, which they haven't been.


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  • #1927
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    miss tickle wrote: »
    In fairness, the effectiveness of the Iron Dome has been debunked, this article for example puts it's effectiveness at 5%, and anyone interested in it's use as an instrument of propaganda as opposed to an actual defense should research it more thoroughly. But as we all know at this stage well funded propaganda is the best form of defense. Whoever thought this up must be laughing their arses off now.
    http://scholarsandrogues.com/2014/07/29/the-contrails-have-it-iron-dome-is-a-dud/


    You'll have to excuse me but it's late and I'm tired but having read the article and confirming the 5% figure as you stated,I'm curious then why the rocket attacks are causing no casualties? Is it because they have no warheads? Do they indeed have warheads and are causing structural damage but no civilian casualties as they are safe in the shelters? or are they causing no damage at at all because,although armed,are landing in the desert? It's not your job to answer my questions but if you have an answer it would be appreciated.


  • #1928
    Mosby61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 ✭Mosby61


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    All of which has just been proven false.
    There was no ceasefire as Israel was continuing military operations in Gaza.
    There are no weapons in the UN inspected civilian shelters that Israel deliberately destroy.
    Just because you say these things again doesn't make them true.
    Should we not listen to the UN? Hamas as an organisation are not pleasant and the charter tells us this.


  • #1929
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Mosby61 wrote: »
    Completely ignoring Hamas and the role they play in this?

    No one is doing that. People are debating what there role is.
    Mosby61 wrote: »
    Hiding weapons in schools

    No proof that Hamas hiding weapon in those empty schools. Its just as likely it was one of the other many groups operating in Gaza.
    Mosby61 wrote: »
    and hospitals and breaking ceasefires.

    The IDF admits they were carrying out an operation against tunnels during the ceasefire. So its a bit strange to say Hamas broke the ceasefire in that instance, if the IDF were as they have admitted still engaged in operations.
    Mosby61 wrote: »
    Not to mention the atrocious Hamas charter.

    Loathsome document, but Israeli politicians aren't any better, with some calling for genocide:

    Calls for genocide enter Israeli mainstream


  • #1930
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Sorry, nope. IDF said they would continue military operations "against tunnels" in Gaza. There never was a ceasefire.

    So now, not only did Hamas not break the ceasefire, there was never a ceasefire in the first place.

    Fantasy land.


  • #1931
    user2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    They have a very, very good idea who broke the ceasefire, based on evidence in front of them, but they have to give a caveat in case they were proved wrong, which they haven't been.

    Yet? Didn't realise there was a time limit to it from it being stated to you posting on this thread.


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  • #1932
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    They have a very, very good idea who broke the ceasefire, based on evidence in front of them, but they have to give a caveat in case they were proved wrong, which they haven't been.

    You mean like the IDF admitting they were engaged in an operation at the time? Surely, that on its own proves them wrong.
    Gaza truce collapses amid renewed shelling

    Israeli forces were pressing their "activities on the ground", army spokesman Peter Lerner said, before the military announced that two soldiers had been killed and named the missing man as Second Lieutenant Hadar Goldin, 23.

    So as per the above the IDF say they were pressing there "activities on the ground".

    Secondly, If they had such a good idea, they wouldn't say they had no way to verify what happened. The fact that they said clearly shows they are not that confident.


  • #1933
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Hamas broke the ceasefire and have cost peopl their lives.

    Hopefully tomorrow will bring another ceasefire, that Hamas will not break.


  • #1934
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    user2011 wrote: »
    Propaganda :o

    Using big letters and bold does not prove you correct. Just pointing this out.


  • #1935
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Mosby61 wrote: »
    Should we not listen to the UN? Hamas as an organisation are not pleasant and the charter tells us this.
    There clearly was no ceasefire as all agree Israel were continuing military operations in Gaza.
    Israel also has plans to annexe all Palestinian land, so they ain't much better. Did you miss the bit about Israel deliberately bombing sleeping children? Good/bad in your eyes?


  • #1936
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Hamas broke the ceasefire and have cost peopl their lives.

    Hopefully tomorrow will bring another ceasefire, that Hamas will not break.
    Already disproven many times. Usual apologist tactic, just keep saying it as if it hasn't.
    There never was an IDF ceasefire, they admit they continued operations. Don't you believe the IDF now?


  • #1937
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Yep, we need a ceasefire ASAP, one that even Hamas holds fast to this time.


    Well given the insanity of the situation wouldn't it be best that Israel disengages totally from the area so there is no possibility of troops engaging. I know this is not part of the Israeli strategy but why should so many suffer for the actions of a few. Surely there can be no question that this is collective punishment?


  • #1938
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    wes wrote: »
    Then why in the exact same story say that they can't verify what happened? If they were so confident, why would they say that? BTW, saying they can't verify what happened is admitting that they don't actually have enough evidence, surely. If they did have enough evidence, the why say that they can't verify what happened. Again, the whole thing is bizarre imho.

    Clutching at straws now. Why not just accept that Hamas broke the ceasefire? I'm sure you could come up with some justification for it.


  • #1939
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Hamas broke the ceasefire and have cost peopl their lives.

    Hopefully tomorrow will bring another ceasefire, that Hamas will not break.

    Ok, your ignoring the fact that the IDF were doing the following:
    Gaza truce collapses amid renewed shelling

    Israeli forces were pressing their "activities on the ground", army spokesman Peter Lerner said, before the military announced that two soldiers had been killed and named the missing man as Second Lieutenant Hadar Goldin, 23.

    So, care to explain this for me? How does the IDF pressing "activities on the ground" not break the ceasefire? Doesn't make sense to me that they were adhering to a cease fire if they were engaged in "activities on the ground".


  • #1940
    Mosby61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 ✭Mosby61


    wes wrote: »
    No one is doing that. People are debating what there role is.



    No proof that Hamas hiding weapon in those empty schools. Its just as likely it was one of the other many groups operating in Gaza.



    The IDF admits they were carrying out an operation against tunnels during the ceasefire. So its a bit strange to say Hamas broke the ceasefire in that instance, if the IDF were as they have admitted still engaged in operations.



    Loathsome document, but Israeli politicians aren't any better, with some calling for genocide
    Who would I trust to run my country? It certainly wouldn't be Hamas who's objective is to destroy Israel. It's all in the charter. Go read it.

    And rightly so Israel should be destroying the tunnels.


  • #1941
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    obplayer wrote: »
    Clutching at straws now. Why not just accept that Hamas broke the ceasefire? I'm sure you could come up with some justification for it.

    So pointing out that the IDF admitted they were in the midst of an operating is clutching at straws now. Care to explain how the IDF pressing "activities on the ground" was adhering to the ceasefire?


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  • #1942
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Already disproven many times. Usual apologist tactic, just keep saying it as if it hasn't.
    There never was an IDF ceasefire, they admit they continued operations. Don't you believe the IDF now?

    I'll take the United Nation's word for it over yours, Hamas' or the IDF, thanks.

    UN say Hamas broke the ceasefire.


  • #1943
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Already disproven many times. Usual apologist tactic, just keep saying it as if it hasn't.
    There never was an IDF ceasefire, they admit they continued operations. Don't you believe the IDF now?

    Continuing operations did not mean using their weapons. Are the tunnels which intrude into Israeli territory now to be off limits to Israelis? They are not allowed to even look?


  • #1944
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    obplayer wrote: »
    Clutching at straws now. Why not just accept that Hamas broke the ceasefire? I'm sure you could come up with some justification for it.
    Accept the thing just proven false with no attempt to counter the arguments presented?
    Were the IDF on ceasefire or not? Are continuing military operations now a ceasefire?
    Ah **** it, don't answer, just squirt out "Hamas broke the ceasefire again" and see if it sticks.


  • #1945
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    wes wrote: »
    So pointing out that the IDF admitted they were in the midst of an operating is clutching at straws now. Care to explain how the IDF pressing "activities on the ground" was adhering to the ceasefire?

    Perhaps you would care to explain to the UN why they are wrong about who broke the ceasefire?


  • #1946
    Mosby61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 ✭Mosby61


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    There clearly was no ceasefire as all agree Israel were continuing military operations in Gaza.
    Israel also has plans to annexe all Palestinian land, so they ain't much better. Did you miss the bit about Israel deliberately bombing sleeping children? Good/bad in your eyes?
    If I had to choose, I would go with Israel. I know I would gain more liberty under them and not have a certain religion thrown down my throat.

    Israel imo is doing the right thing by taking the fight to the terrorists Hamas.


  • #1947
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    wes wrote: »
    Ok, your ignoring the fact that the IDF were doing the following:



    So, care to explain this for me? How does the IDF pressing "activities on the ground" not break the ceasefire? Doesn't make sense to me that they were adhering to a cease fire if they were engaged in "activities on the ground".

    Well of course it doesn't make sense in a sane world but this is not a sane world and the people authorizing this action are not what I would call sane or humane and they talk of truth as if it's something to be played with.


  • #1948
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Mosby61 wrote: »
    Who would I trust to run my country? It certainly wouldn't be Hamas who's objective is to destroy Israel. It's all in the charter. Go read it.

    And rightly so Israel should be destroying the tunnels.

    Wait wasn't the operation started, when they blamed Hamas for killing 3 Israeli settler teenagers, which the Israeli police admitted Hamas probably didn't do. I think Israel is changing the goal posts, when it suits them.

    As for the Hamas charters, its loathsome document, bu considering that Israeli politicians are calling for genocide, they are quite frankly no better. I note that you btw, have ignored that little fact btw.


  • #1949
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Mosby61 wrote: »
    And rightly so Israel should be destroying the tunnels.
    So the IDF were not part of any ceasefire. Thanks for agreeing.
    There's a few here won't be happy though...


  • #1950
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    obplayer wrote: »
    Perhaps you would care to explain to the UN why they are wrong about who broke the ceasefire?

    Well, the UN admitted to not being able to verify there own claim........


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  • #1951
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Accept the thing just proven false with no attempt to counter the arguments presented?
    Were the IDF on ceasefire or not? Are continuing military operations now a ceasefire?
    Ah **** it, don't answer, just squirt out "Hamas broke the ceasefire again" and see if it sticks.

    Who proved it false? The UN?


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