Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August

I Heart Internet · 31-07-2014 12:28PM

beano345 wrote: »

Having met and talked to Israelis travelling after doing their army service,they have to be some of the most brainwashed people I've ever met,Theres a reason why Thai hostel owners refuse to let them stay in their premises,two were actually killed when I was down there.

Genuinely curious - what's the reason?

OneEightSeven · 31-07-2014 12:29PM

Akrasia wrote: »

Palestine is being wiped off the map. Literally, in the last 100 years, the land between egypt and Jordan went from exclusively arab land, to almost entirely controlled by Israel.

Jordan was once apart of Palestine.

A Dub in Glasgo · 31-07-2014 12:29PM

mad muffin wrote: »

First off the UN is an observatory force, there to help civilians.

Correct, the rest of your post then tries to justify not helping civilians

ElChe32 · 31-07-2014 12:31PM

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.606042 An interesting article on Hamas' demands. None seem unjust.

" withdrawal of Israel Defense Forces troops and allowing farmers to work their land up to the fence; release of all prisoners from the Gilad Shalit swap who have been rearrested; an end to the siege and opening of the crossings; opening of a port and airport under UN management; expansion of the fishing zone; international supervision of the Rafah crossing; an Israeli pledge to a 10-year cease-fire and closure of Gaza’s air space to Israeli aircraft; permits to Gaza residents to visit Jerusalem and pray at the Al-Aqsa mosque; and an Israeli pledge not to interfere in internal Palestinian politics such as the unity government; opening Gaza’s industrial zone."

beano345 · 31-07-2014 12:31PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Genuinely curious - what's the reason?

If you met them you'd know generally dog ignorant,loud,boisterous,obnoxious and will haggle to death over 10 cent,not very well liked people down there at all.good bit online about it

A Dub in Glasgo · 31-07-2014 12:32PM

MayoSalmon wrote: »

restraint.

'You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means'

Rhys Essien · 31-07-2014 12:32PM

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

Evidence of what? It clearly says it's a role play account, it's only new, he has fcuk all posts or followers. I presume you think @god is a real account too?

It's someone pushing an agenda with a fake account, so just ignore him!

I'll say it again.He posted the comments on his INSTAGRAM account which is now deleted.

I Heart Internet · 31-07-2014 12:33PM

beano345 wrote: »

If you met them you'd know generally dog ignorant,loud,boisterous,obnoxious and will haggle to death over 10 cent,not very well liked people down there at all.good bit online about it

OK, thanks.

Buzz Killington the third · 31-07-2014 12:35PM

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I'll say it again.He posted the comments on his INSTAGRAM account which is now deleted.

And what's your point?

twinytwo · 31-07-2014 12:36PM

mad muffin wrote: »

First off the UN is an observatory force, there to help civilians. They can't take side. If they did the wouldn't be able to do their job. Countries wouldn't let them in.

Secondly if you think for one second that the situation in Gaza is the same as Nazi Germany you are way off the mark. These kind of comments are really disgusting.

Thirdly Israel has every right to exist. Where do you think the Jews came from? Do people think they were born in vacuum?

And lastly. America goes into country that harbours terrorist that have attacked America.

Israel supports America, they are allies. There is no reason for America to turn on Israel.

Dont make me laugh, if going into Afghanistan had anything to do with harboured terrorists they would have taken out the likes of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia ages ago..... But oh wait they didn't and I wonder why.

So your saying that just because america are allies with Israel, they shouldn't have a problem with Israel breaching international law or commuting potential war crimes?

wes · 31-07-2014 12:36PM

mad muffin wrote: »

Secondly if you think for one second that the situation in Gaza is the same as Nazi Germany you are way off the mark. These kind of comments are really disgusting.

I agree Israel is no Nazi Germany. More apt comparison, would be what the US did to the Native Americans, or the Apartheid South Africa.

mad muffin wrote: »

Thirdly Israel has every right to exist.

Countries don't have rights. Israeli's have rights and so do Palestinians. Israeli's however do not have superior rights to the lands over the Palestinians.

mad muffin wrote: »

Where do you think the Jews came from? Do people think they were born in vacuum?

Biblical lands claims are meaningless. FFS, If I go back far enough apparently my tribe is from India, and are even mentioned in one of India's holy texts, as siding with one God or another. Doesn't give me a right to show up with an army tomorrow and take over huge chunk of India.

Zionist had 0 claim to the land of Palestine, when they started showing up with the intention of driving out the people living there. An extremist take on the Bible is not a valid land claim. Zionism is just European colonialism with some extra extremist Biblical stuff thrown in for good measure.

mad muffin wrote: »

And lastly. America goes into country that harbours terrorist that have attacked America.

They also attacked a country that had nothing to do with attacks on the US. The Iraq war in 2003.........

mad muffin wrote: »

Israel supports America, they are allies. There is no reason for America to turn on Israel.

There is no good reason for America to support Israel to the degree they do. It leads to blow back, one of Osama Bin Ladens stated reasons for 9/11 was US support for Israel, he was inspired by missile attacks by Israel on buildings in Lebanon, with US weapons.

Right now the US is resupplying weapons to the IDF, so they can continue to murder civilians. This make the US state directly complicit in the murder of civilians and it will cause blow back on the US.

BeerWolf · 31-07-2014 12:36PM

beano345 wrote: »

will haggle to death over 10 cent

Yeeeesh, talk about the stereotyped Jew with regards to money... :pac:

mad muffin · 31-07-2014 12:37PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Correct, the rest of your post then tries to justify not helping civilians

That's your opinion.

JamboMac · 31-07-2014 12:39PM

mad muffin wrote: »

First off the UN is an observatory force, there to help civilians. They can't take side. If they did the wouldn't be able to do their job. Countries wouldn't let them in.

Secondly if you think for one second that the situation in Gaza is the same as Nazi Germany you are way off the mark. These kind of comments are really disgusting.

Thirdly Israel has every right to exist. Where do you think the Jews came from? Do people think they were born in vacuum?

And lastly. America goes into country that harbours terrorist that have attacked America.

Israel supports America, they are allies. There is no reason for America to turn on Israel.

A country doesn't need to exist to house to Jews and the concept should have never been created the morons that thought of that idea should turning in their graves and why should the oppression of the Palestinians not be compared to what hitler was allowed do at the start of the war.

If left it will be that story Muslims will be the victims I'm not seeing them as Jews, I see them as Israeli and they should be dealt.

Many countries have been oppressed by others and peoples slaughtered not just the Jews, so let's not give them a free pass.

Highflyer13 · 31-07-2014 12:39PM

December2012 wrote: »

I feel really weak. There is a part of me that I do not want to acknowledge - that I am powerless to stop any more people being killed.

I will boycott any products I know are from Israel, but that won't stop today's assaults.

My sphere of influence is very limited, and most likely anybody who I can influence already agrees with me. That won't stop today's bombings.

I am one small person in a tiny country with no political or military or financial influence.

I am a nobody.

And possibly right now - right this minute as I type - people are being murdered. And I can do nothing.

That terrifies and depresses me.

Get out on the streets, go to the protests. You are not weak. If enough of us challenge our Government and put pressure on them we can force them to expel the ambassador. We can be the first in Europe to do so and that in itself will speak volumes. Maybe others will then follow. Be true to your values.

Protests are starting to become global. No point in us channelling all our outrage on Boards. People need to get out and make their voices heard. I'll be going again today after work outside the Dept of Foreign Affairs. Hopefully I'll see some of you there.

listermint · 31-07-2014 12:42PM

It is not surprising the backing Israel has from the US if this is the type of people they have on Mainstream media shouting for more bombing.

They amusing part is Geraldo appears to come across as the voice of reason.

If you seen the original Russell Brand piece that this is in response to you would see how much Hannity has cut it down to make himself look like a victim.

Terrible stuff altogether from what is dressed up as serious journalism.

Rhys Essien · 31-07-2014 12:43PM

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

And what's your point?

My point is that a sniper in the IDF is openly gloating about murdering kids despite their leaders saying they are doing their best not to kill civilians.

The fact he knows exactly how many he killed would seem he is picking them off between the cross hairs.

A Dub in Glasgo · 31-07-2014 12:48PM

mad muffin wrote: »

That's your opinion.

It is based on what I read in your post. Shatter my opinion by telling me you would support the UN intervening to protect civilians in this case

beano345 · 31-07-2014 12:49PM

BeerWolf wrote: »

Yeeeesh, talk about the stereotyped Jew with regards to money... :pac:

I remember sitting with a mate in a bar watching a group of them push a teenage Thai fella who tried to sell them something,they went off laughing but I could see this evil look on the young fellas face as he went off and said to my mate that's not over yet,within 5 minutes he'd assembled a gang armed with sticks and machetes and took off after them.

Judgement Day · 31-07-2014 12:50PM

sid waddell wrote: »

So, you think that Israel doesn't send large numbers of professional trolls onto comment sites worldwide to propagandise for itself and to stifle debate?

Have you been on Mars for the last decade?

You're obviously just one of the useful idiots who aren't getting paid by them.

If you been reading the thread properly you would see that the bulk of my posts - including reference to another thread that I started 5 years ago calling for the expulsion of the Israeli Ambassador - have been condemning Israel's actions but don't let that get in the way of your conspiracy theories.

Tuisceanch · 31-07-2014 12:51PM

JamboMac wrote: »

A country doesn't need to exist to house to Jews and the concept should have never been created the morons that thought of that idea should turning in their graves and why should the oppression of the Palestinians not be compared to what hitler was allowed do at the start of the war.

The systematic,industrial extermination of the Jews in Europe has no parallel in history and is in no way comparable to what has occurred in Palestine, as shocking as it is. Also the plight of the Jewish people who survived the war was desperate and they were also displaced with no countries like the US or Britain particularly willing to offer them sanctuary. Britain also tried to prevent their exodus to Palestine. There was a problem and they had every right to seek means for their continued survival. That doesn't justify their current actions but it is a consequence of this sad history

Buzz Killington the third · 31-07-2014 12:51PM

Rhys Essien wrote: »

My point is that a sniper in the IDF is openly gloating about murdering kids despite their leaders saying they are doing their best not to kill civilians.

The fact he knows exactly how many he killed would seem he is picking them off between the cross hairs.

Well then like to show the evidence, not a fake account!

JamboMac · 31-07-2014 12:52PM

listermint wrote: »

It is not surprising the backing Israel has from the US if this is the type of people they have on Mainstream media shouting for more bombing.

They amusing part is Geraldo appears to come across as the voice of reason.

If you seen the original Russell Brand piece that this is in response to you would see how much Hannity has cut it down to make himself look like a victim.

Terrible stuff altogether from what is dressed up as serious journalism.

What I learned from this video if you want kill a lot of people become Jewish and not Muslim. Let's all send that news anchor tweets.

The American media I believe is ran by Jewish Americans so I always find it hard to believe the stories.

I Heart Internet · 31-07-2014 12:52PM

Rhys Essien wrote: »

My point is that a sniper in the IDF is openly gloating about murdering kids despite their leaders saying they are doing their best not to kill civilians.

The fact he knows exactly how many he killed would seem he is picking them off between the cross hairs.

I think, as Buzz says, this is a fictional sniper.

A Dub in Glasgo · 31-07-2014 12:53PM

http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/07/idf-sniper-admits-on-instagram-to-murdering-13-gaza-children/

I have no idea if it is a fake account

wes · 31-07-2014 12:56PM

JamboMac wrote: »

The American media I believe is ran by Jewish Americans so I always find it hard to believe the stories.

No, its not. Its run by various corporations, and while lobby groups like AIPAC etc do exist, they do not control the media. The US media are just crap, as evidence by the acceptance of all the bull**** leading up to the Iraq war.

I Heart Internet · 31-07-2014 12:57PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/07/idf-sniper-admits-on-instagram-to-murdering-13-gaza-children/

I have no idea if it is a fake account

If you agree that Ovadia’s admission of war crimes against Gazan children
needs to be FRONT PAGE NEWS, share this with someone you know who cares!

That does not appear to be an unbiased news agency/site.

WakeUp · 31-07-2014 12:58PM

Nodin wrote: »

Israel and the US have not ratified the relevant treaty, so it makes no odds.

It actually does. and the Israelis are really unnerved about potential ICC scrutiny of their actions and with good reason. it's why they so vehemently opposed along with the US Palestines ascension to UN non member status. under the founding statute of the ICC serious breaches of the Geneva conventions like intentionally killing civilians and settlements in occupied territories are considered warcrimes. Israel as a whole would not be open to prosecution just individual acts. Israel has continually attempted to bend and distort international law basically making up their own rules, if the ICC become involved that will then open them up to international judicial review of what they consider an international "norm" which so far they haven't been and they won't be able to do that anymore. this in turn could expose Israeli military and political officials and leave them open to prosecution for war crimes. Civilian settlements in occupied territories most certainly contravenes provisions of the fourth Geneva convention. If the ICC take this on it's a big deal and it does matter.

d.pop · 31-07-2014 12:58PM

BikeQueery wrote: »

Excusing Israel because they have "form". Describing what they're doing as "carry on".

Keep fooling yourself as to the brutality and evil of it.

Read the post again, in fact go back and read the rest of my posts where I categorically point out I disagree with what is going on and find it appalling.

Your post on the other hand is an excellent example of my earlier comment with respect to people on this thread being unable to rationally discuss the topic and instead attack everybody that tries to point out that this is not a straight forward black and white slaughter but instead another terrible stage of a very complex problem.

With respect to Israel's "form" my intent is to point out that they will do what they feel is necessary, right or wrong, it has happened before, Is happening now and will likely happen again. Unfortunately I do not think it will stop until their goal is reached , whatever that is.

Please do not mistake my fear for the region as me condoning what is happening.

mad muffin · 31-07-2014 01:00PM

JamboMac wrote: »

What I learned from this video if you want kill a lot of people become Jewish and not Muslim. Let's all send that news anchor tweets.

The American media I believe is ran by Jewish Americans so I always find it hard to believe the stories.

Seriously? Would you ever stop with your crap?

Have you seen what's going in Syria? Over 150,000 dead in three years

Have you seen what's going on in Northern Iraq? ISIS killing thousands and trying to exterminate all the Iraqi Christians?

Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August