Palestinaisn being slaughtered and a prick with a cowboy hat is on frint page

jank · 29-07-2014 11:12AM

wes wrote: »

According to them, to prevent panic, you know 1000s of people fleeing there homes with no place to go, would cause problems, and possibly result in deaths on its own. It should be pointed out that Hamas did not actually prevent anyone from fleeing. Secondly, giving a warning that you are going to attack civilian infrastructure, is still a war crime, regardless of the warning.

The warning btw, is a weapon of terror used by the IDF, as Palestinians have no place to go, and even when they find a place e.g UNRWA facility, they attack there as well.

Suits them fine so. Don't cause panic on the streets, die instead. Great guys Hamas are. I wish I had them running my country.

Using children and civilians as human shields while launching rockets from schools and hospitals would in my book constitute a war crime. Would you not agree?

wes · 29-07-2014 11:12AM

jank wrote: »

Israel is a Jewish state in terms of ethnicity and identity more so than actual religion. If you were right than homosexuality would be illegal like Iran and Saudi Arabia. Instead Tel Aviv is one of the worlds LGBT hotspots. One can be a secular atheist Jew and have a home in Israel.

So the state is a racist one. That is not exactly any better, btw.......

jank wrote: »

This is not new and I know you know this but want to argue the point regardless.

I don't know, a state that has no civil marriage doesn't exactly strike me as being secular for some reason.......

wretcheddomain · 29-07-2014 11:13AM

the_barfly1 wrote: »

What?

It's actually true - secular Judaism celebrates the Jewish holidays in a historical secular manner; viewing it as a culture as opposed to a religion.

wes · 29-07-2014 11:15AM

jank wrote: »

Suits them fine so. Don't cause panic on the streets, die instead. Great guys Hamas are. I wish I had them running my country.

So, where are they civilians to go, as even UNRWA facilities are being attacked by the IDF? Care to answer that question? Giving a warning, when you know they have no place to go, shows Israels "warnings" (acts of terror to be accurate) are worthless. The civilians have no place to go, and as I said earlier Hamas has not stopped anyone from fleeing.

jank wrote: »

Using children and civilians as human shields while launching rockets from schools and hospitals would in my book constitute a war crime. Would you not agree?

Do you have proof of Hamas using Human Shields?

jank · 29-07-2014 11:17AM

the_barfly1 wrote: »

What?

http://f8wee1vvia32pdxo527grujy61.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Natalie-natalie-portman-1355106-1292-1800.jpg

hatrickpatrick · 29-07-2014 11:17AM

jank wrote: »

Israel is a Jewish state in terms of ethnicity and identity more so than actual religion. If you were right than homosexuality would be illegal like Iran and Saudi Arabia. Instead Tel Aviv is one of the worlds LGBT hotspots. One can be a secular atheist Jew and have a home in Israel. This is not new and I know you know this but want to argue the point regardless.

And yet as others have mentioned, the right wing religious lobby has enough power in Israel to force it to continue its human rights abuses even when more mainstream voices have issues with them.

the_barfly1 · 29-07-2014 11:20AM

wretcheddomain wrote: »

It's actually true - secular Judaism celebrates the Jewish holidays in a historical secular manner; viewing it as a culture as opposed to a religion.

Its the atheist part that confuses me... How can one be an atheist jew?

jank · 29-07-2014 11:20AM

wes wrote: »

They would lose support the world over the moment after. Even the US would be hard pressed to support Israel after such a murderous outrage.

So your blaming the children for getting in the way of IDF attacks? If so, wow, that is just some nasty apologetics right there.

I am not apologising for it however I am right when I state that there is a difference to collateral deaths to deliberate targeting of children as advocated wrongly by many here. Stating this simple fact makes me an apologist for some reason.

donegal__road · 29-07-2014 11:22AM

mad muffin wrote: »

So what are you trying to prove? It's OK for Hamas to execute Palestinians because they cooperated with the IDF as children have been killed in the conflict?

Insightful, how? Drunk embarrasses himself on camera? I've seen plenty of Irish do the same.

Showing this as any kind of indictment is as pathetic as the drunk on camera.

in wine there is truth.. no?

steddyeddy · 29-07-2014 11:22AM

What's this about Hamas using people as human shields?

wes · 29-07-2014 11:23AM

jank wrote: »

I am not apologising for it however I am right when I state that there is a difference to collateral deaths to deliberate targeting of children as advocated wrongly by many here. Stating this simple fact makes me an apologist for some reason.

Ah yes the old disgusting phrase "collateral deaths", that even the US has had the good sense to stop using. You are an apologist due to the overwhelming evidence of Israel being indiscriminate in there attacks, which unfortunately for the IDF, has been witnessed by the world media, and then claiming that the IDF didn't mean it.

jank · 29-07-2014 11:23AM

wes wrote: »

So, where are they civilians to go, as even UNRWA facilities are being attacked by the IDF? Care to answer that question? Giving a warning, when you know they have no place to go, shows Israels "warnings" (acts of terror to be accurate) are worthless. The civilians have no place to go, and as I said earlier Hamas has not stopped anyone from fleeing.

Do you have proof of Hamas using Human Shields?

http://youtu.be/eQ6S0-o3uFI
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools

jank · 29-07-2014 11:26AM

wes wrote: »

Ah yes the old disgusting phrase "collateral deaths", that even the US has had the good sense to stop using. You are an apologist due to the overwhelming evidence of Israel being indiscriminate in there attacks, which unfortunately for the IDF, has been witnessed by the world media, and then claiming that the IDF didn't mean it.

Well I would agree that the attacks are borderline indiscriminate but that is quite a bit different to claiming that killing children is official IDF policy.

wretcheddomain · 29-07-2014 11:29AM

jank wrote: »

http://f8wee1vvia32pdxo527grujy61.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Natalie-natalie-portman-1355106-1292-1800.jpg

jank wrote: »

http://youtu.be/eQ6S0-o3uFI
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools

Are you just going to post links all day?

dav3 · 29-07-2014 11:29AM

jank wrote: »

I am not apologising for it however I am right when I state that there is a difference to collateral deaths to deliberate targeting of children as advocated wrongly by many here. Stating this simple fact makes me an apologist for some reason.

They are deliberately targeting children. It has been pointed out to you numerous times, only for you to come back the following day, ignore everything that has been put to you and start your attempts at thread derailing all over again.

Do you want to see a piece of paper signed by the Israeli government ordering the killing of children? I doubt they are that stupid.

The illegal occupation, war crimes and genocide from Israel continues.

wes · 29-07-2014 11:29AM

jank wrote: »

http://youtu.be/eQ6S0-o3uFI

A video by MEMRI, founded by former Mossad:

Founders

MEMRI was co-founded by Meyrav Wurmser and Colonel Yigal Carmon, formerly of Israeli military intelligence, "both of whom were early critics of the Oslo accords." [11]

May as well be a video from the Israeli government.

Secondly they have habit false translations:
Issues of reliability and veracity

jank wrote: »

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools

Link doesn't actually say Hamas did that.... There are other groups who are not Hamas, and who are far more extreme, who use rockets btw. So we are back to square one, with no proof of Hamas using Human Shields.

blackwhite · 29-07-2014 11:30AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Let's not get into it, but circumcision is indeed barbaric mutilation of an infant's genitals for a non-medical reason. The reason I therefore suggest that Judaism is elevated above other religions is because if another religion held a barbaric practise to be a necessity, I highly doubt the world would tolerate it on those grounds. But any attempt to ban circumcision results in an anti-semitism card being played and the government in question tends to back off, a la Germany several years ago. Do you think this would happen if they were trying to outlaw a barbaric practice by Christians or Muslims?

The Anti-Semitism card is far too powerful. At the end of the day we have to stick to the principle that religion cannot be used to justify bad behavior, and that extends to settlement expansion. Just because a religious text lays claim to a bit of land, doesn't justify taking it by force - and the West shouldn't be kowtowing to that.

Circumcision is not an exclusively Jewish practice. The Khitan is an Islamic version which is very similar to the Jewish circumcision. It's almost a universal rite within Shia Muslims, is extremely common amongst Sunnis, and is widespread within most other strains of Islam also.

Tony EH · 29-07-2014 11:31AM

the_barfly1 wrote: »

Its the atheist part that confuses me... How can one be an atheist jew?

A Jew is not only defined by religion. They can be defined by a racial makeup and a genetic lineage. That's why in Judaism, the idea of being a Jew is passed down by the mother in a familial sense.

A huge number of Jews in the US are secular, for instance, but are still Jews racially.

A Dub in Glasgo · 29-07-2014 11:31AM

jank wrote: »

No evidence to prove otherwise therefore i am right.

Give it up, you are making yourself look silly at this stage

Buzz Killington the third · 29-07-2014 11:32AM

jank wrote: »

Well I would agree that the attacks are borderline indiscriminate but that is quite a bit different to claiming that killing children is official IDF policy.

The IDF are in no way differentiating between Hamas and Palestinians. Palestinians includes children. Because it's reported that there are rockets in a school, does that really give the IDF a valid excuse to blow up the school? I've underlined reported because as I previously mentioned in this thread, there's so far been no journalistic evidence to support IDF claims as to the whereabouts of any of these rockets!

WakeUp · 29-07-2014 11:33AM

jank wrote: »

I am not apologising for it however I am right when I state that there is a difference to collateral deaths to deliberate targeting of children as advocated wrongly by many here. Stating this simple fact makes me an apologist for some reason.

Do you understand the definition of the term collateral deaths? It's a military euphemism for the killing of civilians - conceived and put out in the public domain by the military I think it was the Americans who first coined the term. the term is a two faced double speak based on a callous perception that a killing by another name is not a killing - but if it helps you sleep at night and justify the killing of civilians then you work away. it's an insensitive and horrible military term that attempts to justify the murder of innocent people.

tayto lover · 29-07-2014 11:35AM

jank wrote: »

Suits them fine so. Don't cause panic on the streets, die instead. Great guys Hamas are. I wish I had them running my country.

Using children and civilians as human shields while launching rockets from schools and hospitals would in my book constitute a war crime. Would you not agree?

Pure propaganda.
Were the 4 young lads human shields or the family of 8 inc 4 children?
Any time there's an atrocity the term "human shields" comes into the argument.
It's shameful murder.

hju6 · 29-07-2014 11:35AM

Power plant destroyed and out of action for a year

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/29/us-mideast-gaza-idUSKBN0FV04A20140729

Now no electricity for hospitals etc, and no electricity to pump water.

user2011 · 29-07-2014 11:35AM

jank wrote: »

I am not apologising for it however I am right when I state that there is a difference to collateral deaths to deliberate targeting of children as advocated wrongly by many here. Stating this simple fact makes me an apologist for some reason.

3) Israel, unlike Hamas, doesn't deliberately target civilians

The Guardian: "It was there that the second [Israeli] shell hit the beach, those firing apparently adjusting their fire to target the fleeing survivors. As it exploded, journalists standing by the terrace wall shouted: 'They are only children.'" UN high commissioner for human rights Navi Pillay: "A number of incidents, along with the high number of civilian deaths, belies the [Israeli] claim that all necessary precautions are being taken to protect civilian lives." United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, 2009: "The tactics used by the Israeli armed forces in the Gaza offensive are consistent with previous practices, most recently during the Lebanon war in 2006. A concept known as the Dahiya doctrine emerged then, involving the application of disproportionate force and the causing of great damage and destruction to civilian property and infrastructure, and suffering to civilian populations. The Mission concludes from a review of the facts on the ground that it.. appears to have been precisely what was put into practice."

.

ireland.man · 29-07-2014 11:37AM

So what's the story with Boaz Modai, the Israeli ambassador to Ireland... is there a grassroots campaign to have him expelled? Any info on how to help with that?

tayto lover · 29-07-2014 11:39AM

hju6 wrote: »

Power plant destroyed and out of action for a year

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/29/us-mideast-gaza-idUSKBN0FV04A20140729

Now no electricity for hospitals etc, and no electricity to pump water.

It's genocide.
And to think these JEWISH people got the sympathy of the world after what the Nazis did to them and they now turn around and do the same to another people. Shocking.

I Heart Internet · 29-07-2014 11:42AM

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

The IDF are in no way differentiating between Hamas and Palestinians. Palestinians includes children. Because it's reported that there are rockets in a school, does that really give the IDF a valid excuse to blow up the school? I've underlined reported because as I previously mentioned in this thread, there's so far been no journalistic evidence to support IDF claims as to the whereabouts of any of these rockets!

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools

UNRWA Condemns Placement of Rockets, for a Second Time, in One of Its
Schools

jank · 29-07-2014 11:42AM

dav3 wrote: »

They are deliberately targeting children. It has been pointed out to you numerous times, only for you to come back the following day, ignore everything that has been put to you and start your attempts at thread derailing all over again.

Do you want to see a piece of paper signed by the Israeli government ordering the killing of children? I doubt they are that stupid.

The illegal occupation, war crimes and genocide from Israel continues.

If it's genocide then they are making a poor job of it.
Having an opinion that the IDF are deliberately targeting children doesn't hold water. What is the advantage of this to the IDF? The advantage of dead children in gaza go to Hamas.

steddyeddy · 29-07-2014 11:43AM

Why are people saying Hamas are using shields?

Dravokivich · 29-07-2014 11:43AM

jank wrote: »

Suits them fine so. Don't cause panic on the streets, die instead. Great guys Hamas are. I wish I had them running my country.

Using children and civilians as human shields while launching rockets from schools and hospitals would in my book constitute a war crime. Would you not agree?

I know the question is for someone else, but to me it's more so an action of cowardice. It's hiding away, teasing someone not to attack because they would either not be inclined to cause civilian casualties, or don't care enough about the repercussions of their actions and then use it to bring about a sense of cruelty. Israel called their bluff and attacked.

Doesn't make either better than the other though.

You do realise, that arguing against Israel's actions does not mean the rest of us agree with Hamas? I haven't seen anyone here post in favour of'em while glancing through this thread.

Palestinaisn being slaughtered and a prick with a cowboy hat is on frint page

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