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Palestinaisn being slaughtered and a prick with a cowboy hat is on frint page

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Comments

  • #3182
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,717 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    jank wrote: »
    These deaths do not equate to official policy. That is the key difference that people cannot understand. If it was official policy then there would be 100 times as many of deaths of this nature.

    Don't worry they're getting there bit by bit, intentionally.


  • #3183
    fta93
    Closed Accounts Posts: 306 ✭✭fta93


    jank wrote: »
    That is an opinion not fact, regardless , the UN condemning Hamas from launching rockets from its schools is fact. I wonder why they did that.

    The UN confirmed that the last school the Murder Force bombed wasn't containing weapons and never had. But I suppose them UN teachers were threats to Israel I'm sure.


  • #3184
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,300 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    dav3 wrote: »
    We also need another reminder of our own Minister for Foreign Affairs, Charlie Flanagan. The man who vetoed a UN vote recently for 'Should international law be respected?'

    Let's take a look at some of his quotes.

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/carol-hunt/ill-ask-this-only-once-what-has-israel-ever-done-to-us-29470834.html



    http:/http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/trocaires-call-for-israel-ban-is-beyond-its-remit-28894964.html





    These aren't quotes from some far-right loon on an internet forum, these are from our own Minister for Foreign Affairs which don't even include his rants on twitter.

    Can the man be trusted to make the right decisions?


    I could count on one hand Irish Ministers i trust to make any decisions.

    These people do not represent the people, the represent longevity in the public service. Serving high grade civil servants before them and rewarded for being nodding dogs and making no decisions at all.


  • #3185
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    jank wrote: »
    So there is an official policy by the IDF to target women and children, care to show me this official policy?

    I think the scores of dead civilians is sufficient evidence of at bare minimum a complete disregards for the lives of civilians in Gaza, and are clearly much like Hamas are being completely indiscriminate in there assault. However, considering the level of dead civilians, instance like the murder of 4 children playing football on a Gaza beach, its seem very likely that civilians are in some instance being deliberately attacked.

    BTW, attacking civilians homes, even with a warning is a war crime, especially as the notice given is not exactly enough time, and the fact that civilians do not have anywhere to go, and even when they do have somewhere to go, like a UNRWA facility, the IDF will also attack there as well. It is simply impossible to come to any other conclusion based on these facts.

    It should also be noted that Israel has yet to provide evidence of the claims of Hamas using Human Shields. It should also be noted that various media outlets found not such evidence of Hamas doing so.


  • #3186
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,300 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    wes wrote: »
    I think the scores of dead civilians is sufficient evidence of at bare minimum a complete disregards for the lives of civilians in Gaza, and are clearly much like Hamas are being completely indiscriminate in there assault.

    It should also be noted that Israel has yet to provide evidence of the claims of Hamas using Human Shields. It should also be noted that various media outlets found not such evidence of Hamas doing so.

    The hundreds of reporters there are all colluding against Israel and its pursuit of happyness and joy for its governing parties.

    Its not that the evidence is not there its being sat on by these hundreds of journalists.

    They have it 'in' for them.

    dont you know....


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  • #3187
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    jank wrote: »
    These deaths do not equate to official policy. That is the key difference that people cannot understand. If it was official policy then there would be 100 times as many of deaths of this nature.

    But it doesn't have to be official policy!

    The collective punishment is delivered with utter impunity. While there may not be an official policy to actively search and kill women and children, the Israeli Offence Force have no problem wiping them out should they "just happen" to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    The lengths you people will go to defend such a pariah apartheid state is beyond me.


  • #3188
    Buzz Killington the third
    Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    jank wrote: »
    These deaths do not equate to official policy. That is the key difference that people cannot understand. If it was official policy then there would be 100 times as many of deaths of this nature.

    The number of injured children is well over 1,000 now! I'm sure within a few days the death toll for children will hit your target of a few hundred.


  • #3189
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,811 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    mad muffin wrote: »
    So what are you trying to prove? It's OK for Hamas to execute Palestinians because they cooperated with the IDF as children have been killed in the conflict?



    Insightful, how? Drunk embarrasses himself on camera? I've seen plenty of Irish do the same.

    Showing this as any kind of indictment is as pathetic as the drunk on camera.
    Exactly head out to some parts of ireland and ask for their views on NI and you'll get worse.


  • #3190
    mad muffin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    dav3 wrote: »
    We also need another reminder of our own Minister for Foreign Affairs, Charlie Flanagan. The man who vetoed a UN vote recently for 'Should international law be respected?'

    Let's take a look at some of his quotes.

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/carol-hunt/ill-ask-this-only-once-what-has-israel-ever-done-to-us-29470834.html



    http:/http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/trocaires-call-for-israel-ban-is-beyond-its-remit-28894964.html





    These aren't quotes from some far-right loon on an internet forum, these are from our own Minister for Foreign Affairs which don't even include his rants on twitter.

    Can the man be trusted to make the right decisions?

    You say rants…


  • #3191
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    listermint wrote: »
    Heres a fact, Folks like yourself looking to dress this whole debacle up as some sort of pursuit of defence for Jewish holy land are completely missing the point.

    The whole world is on to you, The whole world can see what Isreal now stands for, it is not a promised land for the people of jewish faith. Its a failed idea that has no place in 2014. Much of the western world has come around to the idea that religion is a destructive force on humanity. It is by far not losing its power because there are plenty of Idiots left out there who have no interest in their fellow planet sisters and brothers.

    Religion is based on greed, and greed is the driver of this conflict.


    The whole thing is disgusting indication of something that was constructed by man.

    Are you directing that rant against Israel alone, while right next door Hamas and ISIS are killing people because they are not Muslim enough. Half of Jews in Israel identify as secular. Not many secular Muslims in gaza.


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  • #3192
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    donegal__road wrote: »
    drunk Israeli youth shouts at BBC (?) camera crew, claiming that the Jews are proud of the fact that they 'killed Jesus', and that the Palestinian land is his land because god gave it to him.. slightly shocking but insightful at the same time.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M539PgDjbas

    I don't know who is worse. These drunks or the media who globalise their views.


  • #3193
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Gaza Crisis: Far-Right Israelis Chant 'There's No School Tomorrow, There's No Children Left in Gaza!'

    "Right-wing Israelis have been filmed chanting "There's no children left there [in Gaza]" and "Gaza is a cemetery" in a seeming celebration of their military's offensive on the territory during a Tel Aviv demonstration.

    The protesters are seen waving Israeli flags and singing football-like chants to voice their anger at Arab members of the Knesset (MK) Ahmad Tibi and Haneen Zoabi, and the people of Gaza.

    This march represents just one section of Israeli society, with many Israeli activists taking to the streets of the country's main cities to protest the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories and the military's offensive on the Gaza Strip.

    Evidence of far-right extremism continues to surface in Israel, with people speaking out against the Gaza offensive facing increased violence and intimidation."

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaza-crisis-far-right-israelis-chant-theres-no-school-tomorrow-theres-no-children-left-1458797


  • #3194
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    jank wrote: »
    Are you directing that rant against Israel alone, while right next door Hamas and ISIS are killing people because they are not Muslim enough.

    What does ISIS have to do with the current conflict, exactly? There completely uninvolved. There are several threads in regards to ISIS btw, so if you so concerned, when you would post in one of those.

    Also, you seem to suggest Hamas and ISIS are in league, care to provide evidence? Now if you mean that Hamas are killing people for not being Muslim enough, I am sure you have proof?
    jank wrote: »
    Half of Jews in Israel identify as secular. Not many secular Muslims in gaza.

    Israels government calls itself a Jewish state, so lets not pretend that the Israeli government doesn't happily invoke Religion to suit itself, when needed as well.


  • #3195
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    jank wrote: »
    Are you directing that rant against Israel alone, while right next door Hamas and ISIS are killing people because they are not Muslim enough. Half of Jews in Israel identify as secular. Not many secular Muslims in gaza.

    We all know Hamas are not ideal political bedfellows, but is this really your only argument against the brutality of the Israeli campaign?

    This highlights not only the inadequacy of your position but also reveals your determination to condemn Hamas at any unique crime but to equivocate Hamas with Israel on other crimes.


  • #3196
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    It's an opinion that selectively targeting regions where there are children is the same as selectively targeting children?

    It follows by logical necessity.

    If I fire a missile at a region, knowing that it'll kill women and children, but yet still fire the missile, then I'm targeting them as well as anyone else in the vicinity.

    In other words, there's nothing collateral about this.

    Moreover, the absence of a UN condemnation doesn't mean a condemnation cannot be issued by others, including users here.

    Two points. Hamas deliberately fire their rockets from built up urban areas including schools which the UN condemned Hamas for twice....
    Israel issued warnings to civilians prior to the ground invasion yet Hamas issued orders for them to stay. Many ignored this order.


    Now tell me, why would Hamas do two of the above.


  • #3197
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,300 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    jank wrote: »
    Are you directing that rant against Israel alone, while right next door Hamas and ISIS are killing people because they are not Muslim enough. Half of Jews in Israel identify as secular. Not many secular Muslims in gaza.

    Well no, but you obviously didnt read it.

    Its about religion directly.

    So em, you might reread it again there. Have a sleep on it. Then have a rethink about your response.


  • #3198
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    But it doesn't have to be official policy!

    The collective punishment is delivered with utter impunity. While there may not be an official policy to actively search and kill women and children, the Israeli Offence Force have no problem wiping them out should they "just happen" to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    The lengths you people will go to defend such a pariah apartheid state is beyond me.

    If you are right then Israel would carpet bomb the most populated areas. They have not done this. Why? Getting in the way is not the same as deliberately targeting children as some have claimed. I think you are beginning to understand the difference now.


  • #3199
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,300 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    jank wrote: »
    Two points. Hamas deliberately fire their rockets from built up urban areas including schools which the UN condemned Hamas for twice....
    Israel issued warnings to civilians prior to the ground invasion yet Hamas issued orders for them to stay. Many ignored this order.


    Now tell me, why would Hamas do two of the above.

    Who are israel to 'order' people out of their homes.


    Your agenda is a simplistic as the content of your posts.

    If it werent so frightening that there are people out there with your 'ridiculous' opinion then it would be laughable.


  • #3200
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    jank wrote: »
    Two points. Hamas deliberately fire their rockets from built up urban areas including schools which the UN condemned Hamas for twice....

    Israel issued warnings to civilians prior to the ground invasion yet Hamas issued orders for them to stay. Many ignored this order.

    Now tell me, why would Hamas do two of the above.

    I'm not a spokesperson, nor an advocate of Hamas, but I'll answer as best I can.

    What non-built up urban areas exist in Gaza? I hope you're smart enough at least to realise the fatuity of your point. Gaza is 360 square kilometres hosting 1.8 million people. You try to find a non-built up urban area to compete in the battlefield.

    Are you expecting children to go to school in a warzone? Even if not, can you tell me of an appropriate building that Hamas should fire their rockets from, where you won't issue this criticism?

    Israel issued warnings? How kind. Like terrifying a family to death with a preparatory warning on their roof?
    If you are right then Israel would carpet bomb the most populated areas. They have not done this. Why? Getting in the way is not the same as deliberately targeting children as some have claimed. I think you are beginning to understand the difference now.

    I already answered this!

    I said it may not be official policy but their actions are performed with impunity with respect to who's in the vicinity, regardless if it's civilians. This is reflected in the death toll, which you're struggling to explain your way out of.


  • #3201
    Darkrepeater
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 27 ✭Darkrepeater


    Darkrepeater wrote: »
    Sorry, but this is bull****... Saying people have no idea of the dangers that Hamas and Palestinians pose..? What a awful thing to say..
    Don't let the fact they look like women and children fool you..? I mean, come off it..

    Seems I missed the fact of the sarcasm in the post I was replying to...
    Apologies "Tailgator"


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  • #3202
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,800 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    LorMal wrote: »
    You don't appear to understand what I meant at all. There seems to be no room for considered opinion or subtlety on this thread.
    Anyway, I think your post is a bit over the top. (Circumcision is hardly equivalent to domestic violence or honour killings, nor is it 'barbaric mutilation' in this context.)
    And I don't think Judaism is 'elevated to a higher status than other religions'?

    Let's not get into it, but circumcision is indeed barbaric mutilation of an infant's genitals for a non-medical reason. The reason I therefore suggest that Judaism is elevated above other religions is because if another religion held a barbaric practise to be a necessity, I highly doubt the world would tolerate it on those grounds. But any attempt to ban circumcision results in an anti-semitism card being played and the government in question tends to back off, a la Germany several years ago. Do you think this would happen if they were trying to outlaw a barbaric practice by Christians or Muslims?

    The Anti-Semitism card is far too powerful. At the end of the day we have to stick to the principle that religion cannot be used to justify bad behavior, and that extends to settlement expansion. Just because a religious text lays claim to a bit of land, doesn't justify taking it by force - and the West shouldn't be kowtowing to that.


  • #3203
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    jank wrote: »
    If you are right then Israel would carpet bomb the most populated areas. They have not done this. Why? Getting in the way is not the same as deliberately targeting children as some have claimed. I think you are beginning to understand the difference now.

    I don’t think they are deliberately trying to kill civilians but they seem wholly indifferent to the fact that this will inevitably be be a secondary effect of their strikes.

    Surely an army, of any kind, should seek to minimise civilian casualties? Do you think the IDF are doing this?


  • #3204
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    jank wrote: »
    Two points. Hamas deliberately fire their rockets from built up urban areas including schools which the UN condemned Hamas for twice....
    Israel issued warnings to civilians prior to the ground invasion yet Hamas issued orders for them to stay. Many ignored this order.


    Now tell me, why would Hamas do two of the above.

    Hamas' radicals obviously hate Israel more than they love Palestine. Now it is wellknown that there are differing views in Hamas but the extremists just dominate everything. I am sure there's just about 5 individuals who are responsible for 95% of all this and it happens to suit Netanyahu to allow these predominate because Netanyahu needs a war to divert attention away from his corrupt style of rule and failures in government.

    I am sure the problem could be dealt with like this: Mossad go undercover and take out the 5-10 troublemakers (drug dealers who are warmongers using the Hamas/Palestine banner to grow their organised crime and allow a money laundering racket) in Hamas. The moderate part of Hamas predominate. A meeting between them and Israel is arranged, a two state settlement agreed, a war against drug dealers is launched by both states and then a lasting peace. If you can do it in Northern Ireland, Nicaragua or South Africa, it can be done in Israel/Palestine too.


  • #3205
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    jank wrote: »
    Israel issued warnings to civilians prior to the ground invasion yet Hamas issued orders for them to stay. Many ignored this order.

    According to them, to prevent panic, you know 1000s of people fleeing there homes with no place to go, would cause problems, and possibly result in deaths on its own. It should be pointed out that Hamas did not actually prevent anyone from fleeing. Secondly, giving a warning that you are going to attack civilian infrastructure, is still a war crime, regardless of the warning.

    The warning btw, is a weapon of terror used by the IDF, as Palestinians have no place to go, and even when they find a place e.g UNRWA facility, they attack there as well.


  • #3206
    user2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    I'm not a spokesperson, nor an advocate of Hamas, but I'll answer as best I can.

    What non-built up urban areas exist in Gaza? I hope you're smart enough at least to realise the fatuity of your point. Gaza is 360 square kilometres hosting 1.8 million people. You try to find a non-built up urban area to compete in the battlefield.

    Are you expecting children to go to school in a warzone? Even if not, can you tell me of an appropriate building that Hamas should fire their rockets from, where you won't issue this criticism?

    Israel issued warnings? How kind. Like terrifying a family to death with a preparatory warning on their roof?



    I already answered this!

    I said it may not be official policy but their actions are performed with impunity with respect to who's in the vicinity, regardless if it's civilians. This is reflected in the death toll, which you're struggling to explain your way out of.

    Is that their "warning" to clear the area?

    Seen two videos of the tap then boom last friday/saturday. They basically got 60 seconds to get out of the building before it becomes their coffin.


  • #3207
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    wes wrote: »
    What does ISIS have to do with the current conflict, exactly? There completely uninvolved. There are several threads in regards to ISIS btw, so if you so concerned, when you would post in one of those.

    Also, you seem to suggest Hamas and ISIS are in league, care to provide evidence? Now if you mean that Hamas are killing people for not being Muslim enough, I am sure you have proof?



    Israels government calls itself a Jewish state, so lets not pretend that the Israeli government doesn't happily invoke Religion to suit itself, when needed as well.

    Israel is a Jewish state in terms of ethnicity and identity more so than actual religion. If you were right than homosexuality would be illegal like Iran and Saudi Arabia. Instead Tel Aviv is one of the worlds LGBT hotspots. One can be a secular atheist Jew and have a home in Israel. This is not new and I know you know this but want to argue the point regardless.


  • #3208
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    jank wrote: »
    If you are right then Israel would carpet bomb the most populated areas. They have not done this. Why?

    They would lose support the world over the moment after. Even the US would be hard pressed to support Israel after such a murderous outrage.
    jank wrote: »
    Getting in the way is not the same as deliberately targeting children as some have claimed. I think you are beginning to understand the difference now.

    So your blaming the children for getting in the way of IDF attacks? If so, wow, that is just some nasty apologetics right there.


  • #3209
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,300 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    jank wrote: »
    Israel is a Jewish state in terms of ethnicity and identity more so than actual religion. If you were right than homosexuality would be illegal like Iran and Saudi Arabia. Instead Tel Aviv is one of the worlds LGBT hotspots. One can be a secular atheist Jew and have a home in Israel. This is not new and I know you know this but want to argue the point regardless.

    Erm, the whole thing is based on religion.


  • #3210
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    jank wrote: »
    Israel is a Jewish state in terms of ethnicity and identity more so than actual religion. If you were right than homosexuality would be illegal like Iran and Saudi Arabia. Instead Tel Aviv is one of the worlds LGBT hotspots. One can be a secular atheist Jew and have a home in Israel. This is not new and I know you know this but want to argue the point regardless.

    A country can harbour a secular free democracy yet still have an atrocious foreign policy.

    a.k.a Irrelevant.


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  • #3211
    the_barfly1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 578 ✭✭✭the_barfly1


    jank wrote: »
    One can be a secular atheist Jew

    What?


This discussion has been closed.
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