Palestinaisn being slaughtered and a prick with a cowboy hat is on frint page

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't understand how anyone can be "trumped" when anyone else plays the religion card. That's something I'll never get my head around. We don't tolerate honour killings just because some religious fundamentalists claim they are mandated, nor do we tolerate domestic violence, forced marriage, animal sacrifice etc in the name of religion - in fact, the only atrocity we do tolerate in the name of religion is, ironically, the barbaric mutilation of infant boys in judaism. If that same religion is tolerated as a "trump card" to justify violations of international law, then the question seriously needs to be asked as to why Judaism is elevated to a status above other religions in which barbarism with religious "justification" is tolerated where with other religions it is not.

I say this from an international point of view, not an Israeli domestic one. My arguments are aimed at foreigners who support settlement construction and Western governments which refuse to do anything about it.

You don't appear to understand what I meant at all. There seems to be no room for considered opinion or subtlety on this thread.
Anyway, I think your post is a bit over the top. (Circumcision is hardly equivalent to domestic violence or honour killings, nor is it 'barbaric mutilation' in this context.)
And I don't think Judaism is 'elevated to a higher status than other religions'?

cert2009 wrote: »

Fully agree, plus it keeps up need for that evil enemy who is dangerous, crazy, and not deserving of sympathy due to their "hatred of democracy and our way of life" lol etc

In WW2 it was the japanese and germans who were "evil" people as a way to terrify the masses, and bring in new laws giving power to governments

Then it was russians, then after they used the "brave mujahideen of afghanistan" to topple the superpower which was soviet empire, the new villain and monsters who are incapable of feelings and are deserving of what they get are the whole muslim religion

let me just leave people with this, to clear this genocidal image peopel have of muslims, taken from somewhere else, but very true

Who started the First World War? Muslims?
Who started the Second World War? Muslims?
Who Killed about 20 million Aborigines in Australia? Muslims?
Who threw nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Muslims?
Who Killed more than 100 million Native American Indians in North America? Muslims?
Who killed more than 50 million Native American Indians in South America? Muslims?
Who took about 180 million African people as slaves and killed 88% of them and threw them in Atlantic Ocean? Muslims?



Im not trying to stir any hate, just dont see where people get muslims are fanatical etc, that stereotype only came out in last 20 years and many people are convinced muslims are some crazy murderers

Even though all people dying in world are muslims, ethnic cleansing going on in Central african republic of muslims, muslims are being burned alive, and babies are being ripped out of their mothers pregnant bellies and trappled on in Burma by buddhist monks(people really need to be made aware of this)

They are also being oppresed in china, basically all over the world right now

That's just it. All these Western atrocities we are supposed to just look over as 'necessary'. Colonialism and neo-colonialism is what caused all these wars and meddling in other countries' affairs by those who have nothing go to do with these countries is the problem.

America and Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan are practically on the opposite sides of the world! Yet, a close love/hate relationship exists between America and these countries (yes, with some local Nidges and Frans in the mix as well!!!: US support or tolerance for heroin dealers who came in handy).

Are the West interested in greater democracy in Iran? No. They support Saudi Arabia, the country backed up by the West and the one all the other fascist dictators in the Middle East copied.

Does the West respect and care for the people of Iraq? Hardly. They went in there and wrecked the place and left it to its own devices when things didn't work out.

Does the West want to see a prosperous Afghanistan? No. They want a subservient and poor one.

Does the West want to see a moderate Israel living side by side in prosperity with a moderate and peaceful progressive Palestine? No. They would prefer to see war and sell arms.

The West always have to have an enemy. 1st off, it was the Kaiser. Germany obviously was the West's obstacle to conquering lands further East. Then, it remained Germany with the rise of Hitler. After Hitler was gone and Germany was no longer threat, it became former ally Stalin's USSR. The cold war was all about dominating the world and a competition between the West and the communists. Hence all the scrambles in Africa, Korea, Vietnam, etc. But the prize position was the Middle East. The West dominated Iran and Afghanistan and then created 'Islamic' fascism to cause problems for the Russians.

The Mujahedin were at least 60% comprised of non-Afghan mainly Saudis inclusive of bin Laden. Ayatollah Khomeini was only partly Iranian and had a lot of Indian blood (and even some say he was 25% British/Irish: his father was some British adventurer from British India whose ancestory included a connection to Northwest Ireland: perhaps Ballinamore. It would explain the Bobby Sands connection). So, all this was manufactured in the West. Saudi Arabia was sanctioned with taking care of taking Afghanistan and France was training the new Iranian military dictatorship that was to take over in 1979 fronted by a mostly Indian possibly part British/Irish and only very slightly Iranian 80 year old priest.

What is 'the West' that you seem to hold accountable for all the ills in the world'.

Glenn Greenwald put it well, on Israel's intent to kill children/civilians:

Anglo-American law has long recognized that gross recklessness is a form of intent (“Fraudulent intent is shown if a representation is made with reckless indifference to its truth or falsity”). That’s why reckless behavior even if unaccompanied by a desire to kill people – e.g., randomly shooting a gun into a crowd of people – has long been viewed as sufficient to establish criminal intent.

One can say many things about a military operation that results in more than 75 percent of the dead being civilians, many of them children, aimed at a population trapped in a tiny area with no escape. The claim that there is no intent to kill civilians but rather an intent to protect them is most assuredly not among them. Even stalwart Israel supporter Thomas Friedman has previously acknowledged that Israeli assaults on Lebanon, and possibly in Gaza, are intended ”to inflict substantial property damage and collateral casualties” because “the only long-term source of deterrence was to exact enough pain on the civilians” (which, to the extent it exists, is the classic definition of “terrorism”). The most generous claim one can make about what Israel is now doing in Gaza is that it is driven by complete recklessness toward the civilian population it is massacring, a form of intent under centuries of well-settled western law.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/21/netanyahus-telegenically-dead-comment-original/

jank wrote: »

Em, these are all opinion pieces where no evidence is presented to state what you claim that there is a deliberate ploy by Israel to target and kill children. It is you that is huffing and puffing, trying to deflect attention away from your own un-provable claims

Yeah

I guess all of the dead children killed by Israeli air strikes is not enough evidence. They are either deliberately targeting civilians (children) or they are so inept that they are accidently killing children on a DAILY basis. Which one do you think it is?

More war criminals

WASHINGTON (AP) — Members of Congress are falling over one another to show their support for Israel.

While much of the rest of the world watches the Gaza war in horror and scrambles for a cease-fire, U.S. lawmakers are pressing the Obama administration to take no action that puts pressure on Israel to halt its military operations.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/israel-war-us-lawmakers-full-support-055517701.html#75OQnlU

Peist2007 wrote: »

I have a very simple question for you: why is the gathering of clear and irrefutable evidence important to you when 800 babies are found in a slurry tank in Tuam but the same type of evidence is not so important when the evidence of Israelis bombing schools and hospitals is laid before you?

I'm sorry?

How did you make out that I wasn't interested in evidence of war crimes? Any deliberate targeting of civilians is deplorable and should be treated as such, regardless of the valid right of any nation to defend itself.

jank wrote: »

Dead children is evidence of many things but a deliberate action on behalf of the Israeli state in targeting them is not it. You made the original claim yet for all your bluster, pictures, claim to emotion not one shred of evidence has emerged that the IDF or the Israeli government are deliberately targeting children.

No they are all just cock eyed :eek:

RobertKK wrote: »

So the son of the Hamas founder and leader rejected the persecution of Palestinians by Hamas, and would rather work for Israel is what you are saying.

Then we have people who want Israel to lift the blockade which ignores Egypt also blockades Gaza.

This tells one a lot about Gaza.

Tells one a lot about Hamas, they are untouchables. The only country crazy enough to support them is one that wants to have a World Cup in 55 degree heat. And, of course, the new caliphate.

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Tells one a lot about Hamas, they are untouchables. The only country crazy enough to support them is one that wants to have a World Cup in 55 degree heat. And, of course, the new caliphate.

Hamas and Israel no different

Chief Rabbi of Hebron Lior: Jewish law permits destruction of Gaza to bring safety to Israel

“At a time of war, the nation under attack is allowed to punish the enemy population with measures it finds suitable, such as blocking supplies or electricity, as well as shelling the entire area according to the army minister’s judgment, and not to needlessly endanger soldiers but rather to take crushing deterring steps to exterminate the enemy,” Lior wrote.

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Rabbi-Lior-Jewish-law-permits-destruction-of-Gaza-to-bring-safety-to-Israel-368605