Beef General Thread

I said · 24-07-2014 09:00AM

Swift response from bord bia in today's weekly.

leoch · 24-07-2014 09:51AM

Another cheap marketing ploy sure all the farmers have to do if someone knew how to is put up a map of lreland showing thousands of map pins stuck to it each pin represents an unhappy farmer with bird bia .....simples

nashmach · 24-07-2014 11:27AM

I seem to drawing the wrath of quite a few on here.

This universal withdrawl of support from the BBQAS is hardly too good for our international image either - any of the important delegations which were brought to Ireland over the past few years were shown this and it seemed to be important to them - I know the cynic in me would say sure Bord Bia were involved as part of the trips....

I agree with freedom above too, this 70 day residency is a load of codswhallop, it should be animal based - this is also distorting the trade for the short keep nearly finished stock - anybody know what status these have when they leave a factory feedlot.....

And I agree with whoever said that the scheme economics need to be changed to reflect a % of price rather than a nominal amount. Whoever came up with that day one were clearly not thinking it true. I also strongly agree that regardless of quality there should be some allowance made for those who are finishing HO type stock - even say 4c/kg?

Pudsey mentioned above about the €150 charge coming in possibly - not sure where he got that from as absolutely no mention of that in anything I have read anyway. But I had thought this was being subsidised by the ABB levy and the likes - someone can correct me on that. If we pay that does it mean that the 12c/kg will increase :rolleyes:. Also to put it in context, grain has a similar assurance scheme and you pay a minimum of €55 + VAT a year for it with regular inspections and book keeping to be completed - certainly there are no allowances in price for this one!! So my point is beef farmers are doing better than they think at times when it comes to QA. If this comes in though it will not be viable for quite a few to continue with it unless you view it as a more formal way of record keeping.

The one thing that not been tackled yet are these new "standards" around the number of moves - again imposed by factories with what we are told supermarket pressure.

blue5000 · 24-07-2014 12:03PM

I said wrote: »

Swift response from bord bia in today's weekly.

Remind me again someone, but was 2001 the year foot and mouth was in uk and bse found in germany? You couldn't sell a steak anywhere that year. Why don't they get a map of 1990 (or pre bse) and show us how fcukin great they are now instead of comparing themselves to 2001.

I said · 24-07-2014 12:43PM

nashmach wrote: »

I seem to drawing the wrath of quite a few on here.

This universal withdrawl of support from the BBQAS is hardly too good for our international image either - any of the important delegations which were brought to Ireland over the past few years were shown this and it seemed to be important to them - I know the cynic in me would say sure Bord Bia were involved as part of the trips....

I agree with freedom above too, this 70 day residency is a load of codswhallop, it should be animal based - this is also distorting the trade for the short keep nearly finished stock - anybody know what status these have when they leave a factory feedlot.....

And I agree with whoever said that the scheme economics need to be changed to reflect a % of price rather than a nominal amount. Whoever came up with that day one were clearly not thinking it true. I also strongly agree that regardless of quality there should be some allowance made for those who are finishing HO type stock - even say 4c/kg?

Pudsey mentioned above about the €150 charge coming in possibly - not sure where he got that from as absolutely no mention of that in anything I have read anyway. But I had thought this was being subsidised by the ABB levy and the likes - someone can correct me on that. If we pay that does it mean that the 12c/kg will increase :rolleyes:. Also to put it in context, grain has a similar assurance scheme and you pay a minimum of €55 + VAT a year for it with regular inspections and book keeping to be completed - certainly there are no allowances in price for this one!! So my point is beef farmers are doing better than they think at times when it comes to QA. If this comes in though it will not be viable for quite a few to continue with it unless you view it as a more formal way of record keeping.

The one thing that not been tackled yet are these new "standards" around the number of moves - again imposed by factories with what we are told supermarket pressure.

The problem I have with bord bia is that I'm jumping through hoops with inspections and record keeping,yet the factories can fcuk around all they like impose penalties on my stock using the QA mark and I lose out and they can still market the product I have striven to produce as a QA product and I get no monetary gain from it.Total bollixology.

mf240 · 24-07-2014 08:53PM

Yes freedom has it spot on. The qa scheme is about record keeping, medicine, foodstuffs, ect.

The bonus should be paid on all cattle produced under the scheme regardless of grade age or weight.

Willfarman · 24-07-2014 10:56PM

Small yearling Hereford heifers in mart this week. Had 5 to 7 moves on board. Some tangling on them cretins!

Robson99 · 24-07-2014 10:58PM

Muckit wrote: »

The increment should be a percentage of base say something like 2%.

Isn't that the same as what I'm saying. A percentage of the base is the same as pro rata increments of the original base.

Robson99 · 24-07-2014 11:11PM

[quote="Willfarman;9141051

And people need to remember there is a far greater tonnage of o grade beef produced in the country than u grade. These elitist fancy cattle loving grid supporters actually loaded the processers guns to cheapen the overall tonnage of beef.[/quote]

There is no need to be throwing dirt at people who produce quality cattle. We have teagasc advising and encouraging suckler farmers to produce better quality stock and now we have fellow farmers blaming others for producing and supplying quality grade cattle. Maybe we should all produce o- grade cattle to keep a few of ye happy.

sandydan · 24-07-2014 11:47PM

Willfarman wrote: »

Small yearling Hereford heifers in mart this week. Had 5 to 7 moves on board. Some tangling on them cretins!

thought factories dont want 5 or more moves

darragh_haven · 24-07-2014 11:52PM

sandydan wrote: »

thought factories dont want 5 or more moves

Factories will take cattle with any amount of moves They won't pay the quality assurance bonus if they have 5 or more

Willfarman · 24-07-2014 11:56PM

I could give a fiddlers what you produce?
I just don't agree that any payment increments should be based on anything more than the value of the extra beef that a better qaulity carcass yields. I finish cattle of all grades and the animal I want is the one with a turn in it.

sandydan · 24-07-2014 11:59PM

simx wrote: »

I'd dread to even think what kind of s**t is in burgers, cows ears, udders and the like I'd reckon

have you seen "little or no lamb found in lamb kebabs,as well as undeclared meat but no horsemeat" article in Irish Farmers Journal ,are we in risk of finding our meat trade embroiled in market destroying scandal of wrong marketing advertising that could cripple or reduce value of food industry before regs are tightened up re adhering to food branding

rangler1 · 25-07-2014 07:00AM

Willfarman wrote: »

I could give a fiddlers what you produce?
I just don't agree that any payment increments should be based on anything more than the value of the extra beef that a better qaulity carcass yields. I finish cattle of all grades and the animal I want is the one with a turn in it.

As you say the O grade is the most common grade and any proposal to increase the increments would only reduce the price of most of the cattle going to the factory

Willfarman · 25-07-2014 07:46AM

sandydan wrote: »

have you seen "little or no lamb found in lamb kebabs,as well as undeclared meat but no horsemeat" article in Irish Farmers Journal ,are we in risk of finding our meat trade embroiled in market destroying scandal of wrong marketing advertising that could cripple or reduce value of food industry before regs are tightened up re adhering to food branding

An advert on telly that drives me nut is for Denny ham. Irish as "begorra sir". The gaa boggers goin off on d big bus with a big box o hang sandwiches. " mm, mm ahhh haw" sings yer man. A sacred irish tradition. Say they.
It's feckin imported meat.
Made in Wicklow say they?
It's processed and packed in Wicklow. So

ham isn't grown and reared from livestock by farmers. it's "made" in a factory.

manjou · 25-07-2014 07:46AM

The grid and QA should be seperate all cattle from qa farms should get it.I joined the qa because it cost me nothing only a few signs and some paperwork.However after last audit a line about not enough concrete around sheds so now it might start to cost me money.They will keep changing the rules to keep ahead of opposition and we are the ones who will pay
.As regards the grades o ps taste the same as a u+ in mcdonalds etc.
Was in garage other day and 2 older men from non farming background were saying how beef did not taste like it used to and neither of them ate beef when they were out anymore or at home either said no taste of it and tough aswell so this is anotger problem we are facing.

Charliebull · 25-07-2014 08:33AM

Willfarman wrote: »

Small yearling Hereford heifers in mart this week. Had 5 to 7 moves on board. Some tangling on them cretins!

What colour and what price in the end

Dozer1 · 25-07-2014 09:40AM

was at the BETTER farm walk in Lixnaw yesterday, full credit to the guy he had a great setup fencing, roadways, great shed etc and great to see.

unfortunately as I drove out of it I couldn't help thinking everyone of the surrounding farms had dairy cows and the whole walk never mentioned the possibility of converting to dairy, his SFP was never mentioned and the figures on the board didn't look like he was making much profit without SFP.

Bord Bia guy was there saying yea things are tough at the moment but they shouldn't get any worse.

He had a bunch of weanling bulls that he said were sold for 3 euro/kg and to me leg wax's bulls were along way ahead.

All in all a good day out but if I was in his shoe's I'd be costing up a parlour and 60 cows, even getting in someone to milk I reckon he'd be better off

Genghis Cant · 25-07-2014 10:08AM

The way I look on this grid debate is: We were screwed on prices before the grid and continue to be screwed.
Every way the factories can increase downward pressure on beef, they will.

If we were in Africa we'd be producing under "Fair Trade". Maybe that's what we need: Fair Trade beef:)

dharn · 25-07-2014 10:19AM

Came across a programme on tv last night cattle in pens in the usa as far as the eye can see, lying on brown clay never saw grass in their lives fed on maize meal and vitamins, when I look out at my cattle stretched out , on lush green grass sunning themselves, yet my beef is no better valued than that american factory beef

Willfarman · 25-07-2014 10:23AM

Charliebull wrote: »

What colour and what price in the end

Black whiteheads. Narrow ones. 275 kgs avg at around 500 in money. March. 2013 born.

nashmach · 25-07-2014 10:28AM

Willfarman wrote: »

Black whiteheads. Narrow ones. 275 kgs avg at around 500 in money. March. 2013 born.

Stupid number of moves on them so.

Be a few quid in them otherwise but must have been "raw" enough as well.

Charliebull · 25-07-2014 10:32AM

Willfarman wrote: »

Black whiteheads. Narrow ones. 275 kgs avg at around 500 in money. March. 2013 born.

sh!te, now that would depress ya

if they were red white heads they would have been worth a punt to feed and to sell on as breeding heifers,

Farmer Pudsey · 25-07-2014 11:08AM

Willfarman wrote: »

Black whiteheads. Narrow ones. 275 kgs avg at around 500 in money. March. 2013 born.

It is one thing that I see in general. Times must be tough that he could not sell privately. i sure the owner tried. Lots of dealers and movements add nothing to value of cattle. Loads of dealers would be better off sorting out inside the gate (stocking levels grass growth and quality). See loads of themreally ruin this type of animal (AA and HE) as they over store, stunt them and even if no of moves is right it is hard to finish before 30 months without lots of ration.

trixi2011 · 25-07-2014 11:12AM

Charliebull wrote: »

sh!te, now that would depress ya

if they were red white heads they would have been worth a punt to feed and to sell on as breeding heifers,

Just on that point would you prefer red white head calve from the dairy herd to black white heads. Could never get rid of red ones from the dairy herd in nz, but they would take the hand off you to get the black white heads. They would always think they were out of jerseys if they were red.

Charliebull · 25-07-2014 11:33AM

trixi2011 wrote: »

Just on that point would you prefer red white head calve from the dairy herd to black white heads. Could never get rid of red ones from the dairy herd in nz, but they would take the hand off you to get the black white heads. They would always think they were out of jerseys if they were red.

I personally prefer the red white head calve but thats more to do with the terminal sire they will cross too

_Brian · 25-07-2014 11:53AM

We've a wee group of bullocks, ~16-17 months any continentals (CH, LMx) are about 450-470kg and FR and AAx in the 375-420 region (i think).
What sort of value would these lads be making, I've heard mart prices have lifted but with work I haven't been there myself.. Average styled animals if ya know what I mean..

Plan is to offload them in the backend - Mid-late Oct most likely..
Some lads have said I should be giving them meal - but grass growth is good, I was thinking maybe meal from Sept as grass slows..

TUBBY · 25-07-2014 08:46PM

Lads.

was at farm walk tonight. Board bia lad there.

asked him 2 questions. Not exactly word for word but gist of it is...

1 how come the farm is audited for qa but then, from that farm only certain cattle are paid on. Is qa not herd number based rather than a particular animal. Put another way, are cattle not paid bonus still classified as qa cattle cause they come from that farmers herd number.

2 what is bb reaction to factories using the qa thing to lower base quotes when cattle plentiful. Surely this was not the original intention of qa setup.

answer 1. there are specs to meet too and the factories don't make them up.

answer 2. Right the next group are coming so ye can move on to the next station.

aneala · 25-07-2014 11:28PM

It is the same with pour on flukcides and may be a reason for poor performance of closamectin which many farmers are not happy about.[/QUOTE

Used Closmectin on a PB bull one autumn and the following spring when we were washing and clipping him for a show and sale came across the pour on still in his coat!!! Maybe it was just the carrier solution but still made me think hard of using/paying for it again.

TUBBY · 26-07-2014 01:13PM

Anyway. Last night teagasc open night was on a suckler farm in edenderry. The farmer had a great setup, great cows and all export calves.
his output per ha was 992 euro and gross margin was 450 euro per hectare.
only thing was nearly all his farm is leased land so at 150 per acre, this is 375 off gross margin straight away.

teagasc suggested he up his stocking rate from 1.6 to 2lu/ha to increase kg output per ha but this takes money and also will increase variable costs.

hard to know. There definitely wasn't any golden ticket on show.

my take home message was if this lad was just about covering his rent with his impressive setup and very tight calving intervals for all cows (less than 365), it is a very hard job make money suckling.

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