Palestinaisn being slaughtered and a prick with a cowboy hat is on frint page

WakeUp · 22-07-2014 12:22PM

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

All I see here is a conspiracy theory, and no link that proves anything.
I wasn't arguing about the fact that the Palestinians have ****ty infrastructure and ****ty lives, I'm just arguing that it is their fault for investing everything they have in fighting Israel instead of bettering their citizen's lives.

So what you're saying here is that it's the Palestinians fault for being oppressed and habitually butchered by their neighbours? in a round about sort of way..but really that's what you're saying..,do you think the Israeli shelling of a hospital is a warcrime ?? or is that the Palestinians fault aswell...investing everything they have? with their non existant economy due to being under a siege and blockade..what do they have? define that...

wes · 22-07-2014 12:24PM

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

Just out of curiosity - can you show me what land the Israelis grabbed in the west bank to compensate for the land they gave up in Gaza?
(I do expect it to be lets say, at least 10% of the area of Gaza that was handed over to the Palestinians)

So 8000 left Gaza, and here is 15,000 more in the West Bank:

Population of Jewish settlements in West Bank up 15,000 in a year

That is just one year, and doesn't count the all the increases since Israel left Gaza, we even see predictions of up to a million settlers in 4 years, from an Israeli politician.

The fact that you are denying settlement expansion is absurd, and quite frankly you have 0 credibility due to that.

gctest50 · 22-07-2014 12:25PM

WakeUp wrote: »

do you think the Israeli shelling of a hospital is a warcrime ??.

How about Hamas shelling a nuclear plant ?

http://rt.com/news/171760-hamas-dimona-nuclear-rocket/

Red Nissan · 22-07-2014 12:28PM

During WWII as the American Forces were invading the Japanese home islands, they grew to hate the defenders because they forced the Americans to kill them.

A lot of these killings were close range small arms and machine gun fire rather than shelling, sea bombardments and air strikes where the crews almost never see their enemy.

I think of that in these times.

WakeUp · 22-07-2014 12:30PM

gctest50 wrote: »

How about Hamas shelling a nuclear plant ?

http://rt.com/news/171760-hamas-dimona-nuclear-rocket/

Most certainly a warcrime. Hamas are knuts for indiscriminately firing rockets which I've stated many times I've zero time for that sort of thing.

WakeUp · 22-07-2014 12:31PM

gctest50 wrote: »

How about Hamas shelling a nuclear plant ?

http://rt.com/news/171760-hamas-dimona-nuclear-rocket/

So Israel shelling a hospital deliberately war crime or not? what say you?..or are you another one of these IDF apologists suffering from a touch of cognitive dissonance? please prove me wrong there has to be at least one of you that can. Warcrime or not?..

gctest50 · 22-07-2014 12:36PM

Could be Hamas ?

At this stage they should be working on DNA based weapons to sort them out for once and for all

WakeUp · 22-07-2014 12:38PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Could be Hamas ?

What is Phuckin wrong with you people? are you serious? Hamas shelled the hospital? seriously wtf is wrong with some of you people it's a bit disturbing actually.

wes · 22-07-2014 12:39PM

gctest50 wrote: »

How about Hamas shelling a nuclear plant ?

http://rt.com/news/171760-hamas-dimona-nuclear-rocket/

Seeing as they enrich uranium for nuclear weapons there, its a valid military target. Don't get me wrong, its stupid place to attack, but last time I checked if you enrich uranium for bombs, that makes the facility a military target.

gctest50 · 22-07-2014 12:41PM

WakeUp wrote: »

What is Phuckin wrong with you people? are you serious? Hamas shelled the hospital? seriously wtf is wrong with some of you people it's a bit disturbing actually.

not much wrong with me, thanks for asking though

anyways, yip, old trick to get the people behind the actions of the few

WakeUp · 22-07-2014 12:42PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Could be Hamas ?

At this stage they should be working on DNA based weapons to sort them out for once and for all

DNA based weapons to sort them out? please elaborate on that for me.. you sociopathic headbanger.

WakeUp · 22-07-2014 12:43PM

gctest50 wrote: »

not much wrong with me, thanks for asking though

anyways, yip, old trick to get the people behind the actions of the few

Clearly, there is something not right about you. Tell me about these DNA weapons? who are they for ...

FTA69 · 22-07-2014 12:45PM

Excellent article by former rugby international, Trevor Hogan.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/the-world-cannot-stand-idly-by-as-this-slow-terrible-death-in-gaza-continues-30448624.html

Archbishop Desmond Tutu said: "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." There are not two 'equal' sides to report on in this horror. No two sides to take, when four children are blown up as they play football and hide-and-seek on a beach. No two 'equal' sides when disabled women are killed in their hospital beds. Nor when nine people's lives are taken as they watch a football match, or when a five-month-old baby dies in his mother's arms, after being hit by Israeli artillery. Is there a need for 'balance' when a rehabilitation hospital for spinal injuries is completely levelled or when a massacre of over 80 people takes place in Gaza's Shuja'iya district? - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/the-world-cannot-stand-idly-by-as-this-slow-terrible-death-in-gaza-continues-30448624.html#sthash.vMC7AO09.dpuf

This injustice is worsened by the tendency of world powers to exonerate Israel from its crimes. Some commentators operate from the assumption that "if only the rockets would stop, everything would be okay". Well the rockets did stop. After the deal that ended Israel's last attack on Gaza in 2012, the firing of rockets from Gaza fell to their lowest level in 12 years. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, by his own admission, acknowledged in a recent speech that Hamas had not fired any rockets in the 18 months since Operation 'Pillar of Defence' ended in a ceasefire. Yet this 'ceasefire' applied to the Palestinian side only. During this time Israel continued killing in Gaza, maintaining the illegal siege, repeatedly shooting farmers and harassing fishermen. - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/the-world-cannot-stand-idly-by-as-this-slow-terrible-death-in-gaza-continues-30448624.html#sthash.vMC7AO09.dpuf

gctest50 · 22-07-2014 12:48PM

WakeUp wrote: »

DNA based weapons to sort them out? please elaborate on that for me.. you sociopathic headbanger.

That's not very nice

WakeUp · 22-07-2014 12:51PM

gctest50 wrote: »

That's not very nice

Tell me about these DNA weapons and I'll think about withdrawing that comment..what did you mean when you said that?..

NewCorkLad · 22-07-2014 12:55PM

WakeUp wrote: »

do you think the Israeli shelling of a hospital is a warcrime ??

gctest50 wrote: »

How about Hamas shelling a nuclear plant ?

http://rt.com/news/171760-hamas-dimona-nuclear-rocket/

WakeUp wrote: »

Most certainly a warcrime. Hamas are knuts for indiscriminately firing rockets which I've stated many times I've zero time for that sort of thing.

gctest50 wrote: »

Could be Hamas ?

At this stage they should be working on DNA based weapons to sort them out for once and for all

So gctest can you answer a simple question

Archie D Bunker · 22-07-2014 01:00PM

FTA69 wrote: »

You don't think it matters that the vast majority of the West Bank is under military occupation and that Palestinian control extends only to large population centres, or in effect the place has been entirely cantonised?

Sorry, I thought you meant civil administrative zones.
I am against the occupation of the west bank, but I do understand Israel not hurrying to hand it over to the Palestinians after the lesson they learned when they left Gaza.

FTA69 wrote: »

Wrong, wrong and wrong again. The water supply and aquifers in the West Bank are under the exclusive control of Israel. Supply is sporadic because of direct Israeli policy, not Palestinian lack of investment.

Israel supplies to the Palestinian Arabs in Judea and Samaria 46 million cubic meters (MCM) a year more water than Israel is obligated to under the Oslo Accords. Feel free to check.

FTA69 wrote: »

Are you off your nut? Settlements expand due to the IDF seizing a part of land due to "security concerns", settlements then expand on the back of them. This is an ongoing process. The continued territory seizure and process of house building is a state sponsored activity backed by Netanyahu himself. Settlements in East Jerusalem are springing up on an increasing basis.

http://forward.com/articles/186796/israel-approves-construction-of--new-settlemen/

Furthermore, all settlements are illegal under international law.

If you would have bothered reading through the link you provided, you would have been able to see that the new build is in areas which, and I quote “Israel says it intends to keep in any peace deal with the Palestinians”.

The last sentence you made is just false. I’ll just comment on the fact that there is no such thing as “international law” – there are international treaties and agreements, signed by sovereign states. I doubt Hamas is a signatory on any of those.

FTA69 wrote: »

Total and utter nonsense as usual. Every single day, large numbers (thousands) of young men smuggle themselves through the barrier to work as day labourers in Israel. They dig tunnels, cut fences, hide in the boot of cars or else get smuggled in by Palestinians with Israeli citizenship. If the barrier doesn't keep out 18 year old hod carriers it sure as f*ck won't keep out a determined militant organisation. The barrier illegally annexed 10% of the territory.

That was the case before the wall. Not anymore. People still smuggle themselves to Israel but not in such volumes.

FTA69 wrote: »

To be honest mate it's clear you've never been to the West Bank and you';ve very little understanding of what goes on there.

I’ve been to Israel many times, I’ve even been to the west bank & Gaza several times (as a child, before the first uprising).
I have family members living in Israel and I visit there frequently.
I probably know about Israel more than most of the people on this forum, from experience.

Red Nissan · 22-07-2014 01:01PM

WakeUp wrote: »

Tell me about these DNA weapons and I'll think about withdrawing that comment..what did you mean when you said that?..

Weapon specialists are already working on DNA weapons and have been for a while. We are all familiar with the personal weapon imprint so only one persona can actually fire that.

Small arms rounds or in reality small missiles are in development that can go around corners and over walls and explode.

DNA targetting has been available in chemical weapons for a while but these are not small arms delivery.

WakeUp · 22-07-2014 01:06PM

Red Nissan wrote: »

Weapon specialists are already working on DNA weapons and have been for a while. We are all familiar with the personal weapon imprint so only one persona can actually fire that.

Small arms rounds or in reality small missiles are in development that can go around corners and over walls and explode.

DNA targetting has been available in chemical weapons for a while but these are not small arms delivery.

I appreciate the reply but I'd like to hear from gctest. and personally speaking I don't think his idea of a DNA weapon is similar to your idea of one. but I can only speculate as he won't talk to me. until he does I will have to assume.

bumper234 · 22-07-2014 01:07PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Could be Hamas ?

At this stage they should be working on DNA based weapons to sort them out for once and for all

So you are advocating genocide? :eek:

Archie D Bunker · 22-07-2014 01:07PM

WakeUp wrote: »

So Israel shelling a hospital deliberately war crime or not? what say you?..or are you another one of these IDF apologists suffering from a touch of cognitive dissonance? please prove me wrong there has to be at least one of you that can. Warcrime or not?..

If rockets were stored in the hospital, or if rockets were fired from it (or the immediate area), or if any other terrorist activity was being performed there, and if sufficient warning was given - the hospital is a legitimate target and it is not a war crime.

By the way - the fact that the Hamas leadership is hiding under a hospital - that's a war crime.

WakeUp · 22-07-2014 01:09PM

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

If rockets were stored in the hospital, or if rockets were fired from it (or the immediate area), or if any other terrorist activity was being performed there, and if sufficient warning was given - the hospital is a legitimate target and it is not a war crime.

By the way - the fact that the Hamas leadership is hiding under a hospital - that's a war crime.

So it's the fault of Hamas again? are any of you people capable , even one , of telling how it is? just one of you?..

Archie D Bunker · 22-07-2014 01:13PM

WakeUp wrote: »

So it's the fault of Hamas again? are any of you people capable , even one , of telling how it is? just one of you?..

Exactly, It is the fault of Hamas. Finally, you are beginning to understand.
Hamas have already admitted that they want more Palestinian civilians dead as an effective way to fight the occupation (propaganda) and that's why they instructed the civilians to stay in areas about to be shelled.

bumper234 · 22-07-2014 01:14PM

http://news.sky.com/story/1305242/pregnant-woman-and-child-among-airstrike-dead

A child and three women, one of them pregnant, have been killed in airstrikes on Gaza say medics,

It came as the number killed in the 15-day conflict passed 560 people, including nearly 100 children.

I don't care what you say, That's ****ing disgraceful.

NufcNavan · 22-07-2014 01:14PM

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

Exactly, It is the fault of Hamas. Finally, you are beginning to understand.
Hamas have already admitted that they want more Palestinian civilians dead as an effective way to fight the occupation (propaganda) and that's why they instructed the civilians to stay in areas about to be shelled.

Could I get a source for this claim please.

NewCorkLad · 22-07-2014 01:15PM

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

If rockets were stored in the hospital, or if rockets were fired from it (or the immediate area), or if any other terrorist activity was being performed there, and if sufficient warning was given - the hospital is a legitimate target and it is not a war crime.

By the way - the fact that the Hamas leadership is hiding under a hospital - that's a war crime.

How long is sufficent time for a hospital to evacuate I wonder. A hosptal should never be a legitimate target that is just sick. And yes I beleive Hamas hiding in the hospital is also sick, if they were hiding there. But the actions of Hamas does not defend the actions of Israel against the helpless doctors, nurses and patients in the hospital

WakeUp · 22-07-2014 01:16PM

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

Exactly, It is the fault of Hamas. Finally, you are beginning to understand.
Hamas have already admitted that they want more Palestinian civilians dead as an effective way to fight the occupation (propaganda) and that's why they instructed the civilians to stay in areas about to be shelled.

Seriously, wtf is wrong with some of you it's not right it's troubling it really is.

bumper234 · 22-07-2014 01:16PM

NewCorkLad wrote: »

How long is sufficent time for a hospital to evacuate I wonder. A hosptal should never be a legitimate target that is just sick. And yes I beleive Hamas hiding in the hospital is also sick, if they were hiding there. But the actions of Hamas does not defend the actions of Israel against the helpless doctors, nurses and patients in the hospital

The fact it would be impossible to fully evacuate a hospital seems to go over his head too, Where do you take the people who are in the middle of surgery or in the ICU ward?

gctest50 · 22-07-2014 01:19PM

bumper234 wrote: »

So you are advocating genocide? :eek:

The point of DNA based weapons is you can target a single individual apparently

So, if they worked - you could eliminate the rocket-launching brigade without harming innocent Palestinian people.

FTA69 · 22-07-2014 01:20PM

I am against the occupation of the west bank, but I do understand Israel not hurrying to hand it over to the Palestinians after the lesson they learned when they left Gaza.

Israel is preventing the creation of a Palestinian state for the simple reason that they view the West Bank as an inherent part of Eratz Israel and are in the process of colonising it wholesale.

Israel supplies to the Palestinian Arabs in Judea and Samaria 46 million cubic meters (MCM) a year more water than Israel is obligated to under the Oslo Accords. Feel free to check.

Again you're just factually wrong. Utterly wrong like. A minute ago you were insinuating the Palestinians were at fault for not investing in the water system and now you're admitting that Israel controls it in its entirety. You're falling over yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_in_Palestine

"The West Bank's main resource of natural water is groundwater from the Mountain Aquifer, most of it derived from rainfall and snowmelt on the Palestinian side of the Green Line. Palestinians abstract about 20% of the "estimated potential" of the aquifers that underlie both the West Bank and Israel.[8] Israel abstracts the rest and in addition overdraws its share by over 50%, using about 1.8 times what it is allowed under the Oslo agreement.[8]"

"Israel extracts more water from the West Bank than agreed in the Oslo Accord, while Palestinian abstractions were within the agreed range. Contrary to expectations under Oslo II, the water actually abstracted by Palestinians in the West Bank has dropped between 1999 and 2007. Due to the Israeli over-extraction, aquifer levels are near ″the point where irreversible damage is done to the aquifer.″ Israeli wells in the West Bank have dried up local Palestinian wells and springs.[8]"

If you would have bothered reading through the link you provided, you would have been able to see that the new build is in areas which, and I quote “Israel says it intends to keep in any peace deal with the Palestinians”.

Exactly. Israel has declared that it has effectively annexed parts of the West Bank and is concentrating on expanding their illegal settlements within the land they illegally seized.

That was the case before the wall. Not anymore. People still smuggle themselves to Israel but not in such volumes.

Wrong again. I've seen it happen with my own eyes. It happens in huge numbers all over the West Bank and the men who get through often do so on a weekly or even daily basis. They are an important source of cheap undocumented labour within Israel. There was a very popular film made about it recently. If you think Hamas are unable to smuggle a man with a bomb into Israel you're codding yourself. The erection of the barrier was nothing to do with security and everything to do with stifling any potential for a Palestinian state. Considering they're still aggressively expanding beyond the barrier any talk of it being a secure border is bullsh*t.

I’ve been to Israel many times, I’ve even been to the west bank & Gaza several times (as a child, before the first uprising).
I have family members living in Israel and I visit there frequently.
I probably know about Israel more than most of the people on this forum, from experience.

But yet you thought there was a freeze on settlements and the PA had control over the water? Sounds me you're a typical Hasbara type peddling obfustications and untruths about the area as usual.

Palestinaisn being slaughtered and a prick with a cowboy hat is on frint page

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