Interval training , Hiit, sprints.

Inspector Coptoor · 18-07-2014 01:36PM

How long ago was that?

That is complete and utter madness and completely useless for any rugby player bar a winger or fullback and I would even caveat that by saying more than 3-5 100m sprints for them in a training session is too much AND the rest periods would need to be a hell of a lot longer than 15s.

Even when I'm testing guys, I'd have them do 150s which is 30s on, 30s off x 6 or the yo yo test which again is just a test.

If that was when you were playing rugby as a kid, I'd go do far as to call it child cruelty & as you said yourself - it was no longer a sprint after the 15th run, but I'd wager it was more of a fast run after 6 or 7.

GiftofGab · 18-07-2014 03:20PM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

How long ago was that?

That is complete and utter madness and completely useless for any rugby player bar a winger or fullback and I would even caveat that by saying more than 3-5 100m sprints for them in a training session is too much AND the rest periods would need to be a hell of a lot longer than 15s.

Even when I'm testing guys, I'd have them do 150s which is 30s on, 30s off x 6 or the yo yo test which again is just a test.

If that was when you were playing rugby as a kid, I'd go do far as to call it child cruelty & as you said yourself - it was no longer a sprint after the 15th run, but I'd wager it was more of a fast run after 6 or 7.

It was last year for Melbourne Rugby club and the whole club (which consists of about 5 teams excluding the gay friendly team and women's team) would have to do fitness training together. That includes the 1st team which is about a semi-professional level.

The coach was a Scottish lad who played for Scotland and coached Scotland U21 and U19 to 2 rugby world cup's so I think he knew what he was doing. It was pre-season to improve our overall fitness and I think it worked wonders.

The coach also had a deck of cards at the end of training. There were 4 sets - situps, jumping jacks, long sprints and short sprints that we would have to complete. The way it worked was if he pulled out a '3' you would do 3 sits ups. If next card was a '10' you would do 10 jumping jacks and so on until the 52 cards are finished without a rest between sets. A joker was a 60 second rest.

Well getting back to the sprints -they called it sprints but yes after a few they turned into fast runs.

Inspector Coptoor · 18-07-2014 03:22PM

A good player does not always make a Good coach.

just because that's the kind of training he may have been out through doesn't mean it's good.

And training all those groups together not taking into account ability, size and weight etc is again, madness.

No one accredited by the irfu is at that shïtę

tom_tarbucket · 18-07-2014 05:01PM

so its about 48 hours since I first did this and the usual "48 hours after " affect is in place. i.e.

Me legs are absolutely fo0ked today

Im gonna have to leave it until tomorrow for round 2.

Sure I suppose it shows I put in the effort anyway the other night.

Edit : went for a walk there and legs were very stiff.

Brian · 18-07-2014 06:02PM

Here's an accompanying article / summary of the video I posted previously http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/02/10/phil-campbell-interview.aspx

Insect Overlord · 18-07-2014 06:20PM

I watched that video late Wednesday night and tried to put it into practice while I was cycling yesterday. I used the hills on my route home for the "sprints". Low gear, high knee-lifts, all-out effort to the top of each hill without leaving the saddle. Ended up making my best ever time on my route. My legs are still jelly today. Brilliant stuff.

Brian · 18-07-2014 09:31PM

Just tried it with burpees.
After set 3, felt like I was going to die.
After set 6, felt like I was turning inside out.
After finishing, I feel great!

tom_tarbucket · 19-07-2014 08:18AM

Just wondering, for the average joe soap, how for should the average joe be able to sprint flat out in 30 seconds, roughly ?

Brian · 19-07-2014 09:44AM

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Just wondering, for the average joe soap, how for should the average joe be able to sprint flat out in 30 seconds, roughly ?

A bit over 100 m would be my guess.

Inspector Coptoor · 19-07-2014 10:02AM

It'd be a very rough guess but I'd say around 150m.

I'm not a fast guy and I'm close to 100kg and I did a 200m sprint in an indoor stadium in 34s and blew up after

tom_tarbucket · 19-07-2014 10:10AM

Brian wrote: »

A bit over 100 m would be my guess.

Right. The above video says to sprint flat out for 30 seconds, rest for 90 and repeat x 8. Sprinting for 30 seconds is equal to about 100 metres for the average joe.

Earlier on in thread it was suggested to sprint for 30-50 metres which is only about 10-15 seconds.

I'm not being pedantic but there is a massive difference in sprinting for 30 seconds versus 15 seconds.

I'm confused now and Wondering whether I should be doing the sprint for 15 or 30 seconds ?

Inspector Coptoor · 19-07-2014 10:12AM

It depends.

What are you doing it for?

If you found the first day of sprinting for distance (50m in 15s or so x 6) tough, you'll find this ridiculously hard.

By all means build up to the 30s flat out but don't go mad like.

Build it up slowly

tom_tarbucket · 19-07-2014 10:15AM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

It depends.

What are you doing it for?

If you found the first day of sprinting for distance (50m in 15s or so x 6) tough, you'll find this ridiculously hard.

By all means build up to the 30s flat out but don't go mad like.

Build it up slowly

Get ya.

Doing it mainly for losing weight. Which is best for that particular goal ?

Brian · 19-07-2014 10:49AM

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Get ya.

Doing it mainly for losing weight. Which is best for that particular goal ?

The best way to lose weight is to reduce your calorie intake.

I don't think you'll find a dramatic difference in HIIT permutations, they're all variations of the same idea. Unfortunately it's not a panacea, unless you're doing a lot of cardio you will need to be concerned with diet.

ford2600 · 19-07-2014 11:52AM

Brian wrote: »

The best way to lose weight is to reduce your calorie intake.

I don't think you'll find a dramatic difference in HIIT permutations, they're all variations of the same idea. Unfortunately it's not a panacea, unless you're doing a lot of cardio you will need to be concerned with diet.

@Brian one or two questions.

I'm doing a lot of endurance/audax cycling for last 10months or so and my training has primarily been low intensity with a lot of hills and a little mtb which is always intense.

As I expected I'm now slower, but not by much, on your typical Irish 300/400m pass than I was 12 months ago.

I would like to do two more 300km events but would also like to do some intervals and some hiit work; would this be helpful or detrimental to my endurance performance? Assuming adequate rest etc

Brian · 19-07-2014 02:46PM

ford2600 wrote: »

@Brian one or two questions.

I'm doing a lot of endurance/audax cycling for last 10months or so and my training has primarily been low intensity with a lot of hills and a little mtb which is always intense.

As I expected I'm now slower, but not by much, on your typical Irish 300/400m pass than I was 12 months ago.

I would like to do two more 300km events but would also like to do some intervals and some hiit work; would this be helpful or detrimental to my endurance performance? Assuming adequate rest etc

I don't know an exact answer, but HIIT does increase your VO2 max, which improves endurance. It also helps your body become more comfortable at higher speeds which can overall increase your pace. I know quite a few marathon runners incorporate it in their training.

Alf Veedersane · 19-07-2014 02:50PM

Brian wrote: »

I know quite a few marathon runners incorporate it in their training.

I remember Steve Cram talking about how you should incorporate it into training in one of his segmens on the morning of the London Marathon years ago.

ford2600 · 19-07-2014 02:59PM

Brian wrote: »

I don't know an exact answer, but HIIT does increase your VO2 max, which improves endurance. It also helps your body become more comfortable at higher speeds which can overall increase your pace. I know quite a few marathon runners incorporate it in their training.

I'll incorporate it into climbing all SKT climbs tomorrow and report back.

Tried it Thursday climbing Ticincor. Hard to recover in 90secs on a 10% road!

Thanks for your input.

Turtwig · 19-07-2014 03:04PM

Brian wrote: »

Here's a detailed discussion about the effects of HIIT for anyone interested.

Main program suggested is:

2 min warm up
30 seconds on, 90 seconds off x8
2 min warm down

3 days a week.

Stumbled upon this thread from the main page. This is purely a poisoning the well. It needs to be done though. As taking health advice from this guy in general is like taking biology lessons from a creationist.

In short, he opposes vaccination, mammograms, fluoridation and a plethora of other things. His medical advice is generally unsafe bothering on quackery. He appears to makes a profession out of giving "expert" advice to people. Selling them supplements and regimes. Most, if not all the time, they're based on a propaganda and junk science. Often times endangering a person's health. Take any advice by this guy, no matter how reasonable it intuitively seems, with a very tiny pinch of salt.

That said his advice above seems reasonable but I'm not in any position to know otherwise. Still, just felt it best to warn ye. This is a health forum after all.:)

Right, uh, apologies, keep up the awesome routines.

*waddles away awkwardly*

Alf Veedersane · 19-07-2014 03:16PM

ford2600 wrote: »

I'll incorporate it into climbing all SKT climbs tomorrow and report back.

Tried it Thursday climbing Ticincor. Hard to recover in 90secs on a 10% road!

Thanks for your input.

As an aside, if I remember correctly, the final climb to the finish at Mirador de Ezaro on the TdF a couple of years back hit 30%!

Brian · 19-07-2014 03:22PM

Turtwig wrote: »

Stumbled upon this thread from the main page. This is purely a poisoning the well. It needs to be done though. As taking health advice from this guy in general is like taking biology lessons from a creationist.

In short, he opposes vaccination, mammograms, fluoridation and a plethora of other things. His medical advice is generally unsafe bothering on quackery. He appears to makes a profession out of giving "expert" advice to people. Selling them supplements and regimes. Most, if not all the time, they're based on a propaganda and junk science. Often times endangering a person's health. Take any advice by this guy, no matter how reasonable it intuitively seems, with a very tiny pinch of salt.

That said his advice above seems reasonable but I'm not in any position to know otherwise. Still, just felt it best to warn ye. This is a health forum after all.:)

Right, uh, apologies, keep up the awesome routines.

*waddles away awkwardly*

You're right to add the warning although at least in this case the person dispensing the advice has some substantiated background.

ford2600 · 19-07-2014 03:26PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

As an aside, if I remember correctly, the final climb to the finish at Mirador de Ezaro on the TdF a couple of years back hit 30%!

I've done stupid climbs like that, they really hurt.

Valley of the Tears in Gran Canaria in May hurt like no other

Alf Veedersane · 19-07-2014 03:28PM

ford2600 wrote: »

I've done stupid climbs like that, they really hurt.

Valley of the Tears in Gran Canaria in May hurt like no other

Most appropriate place name of all time

ford2600 · 19-07-2014 03:31PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Most appropriate place name of all time

60km into 100km spin fasting, the tears were plentiful!

menoscemo · 19-07-2014 04:53PM

Brian wrote: »

HIIT does increase your VO2 max, which improves endurance. It also helps your body become more comfortable at higher speeds which can overall increase your pace. I know quite a few marathon runners incorporate it in their training.

All semi-serious distance runners do some form of interval training at least once a week in the form of 'strides', hill sprints or track intervals.
Mileage and long runs will primarily increase your endurance but some form of speedwork is complimentary in any training programme to keep up your top end speed.

discus · 20-07-2014 10:55AM

Brian wrote: »

You're right to add the warning although at least in this case the person dispensing the advice has some substantiated background.

yeah, that makes opposing vaccinations somewhat respectable, right?

Brian · 20-07-2014 10:59AM

discus wrote: »

yeah, that makes opposing vaccinations somewhat respectable, right?

There are two participants in the video...

Mellor · 20-07-2014 12:44PM

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

I'm not being pedantic but there is a massive difference in sprinting for 30 seconds versus 15 seconds.

I'm confused now and Wondering whether I should be doing the sprint for 15 or 30 seconds ?

In terms or weight loss they will be little difference between the two.

tom_tarbucket · 20-07-2014 12:47PM

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Right. The above video says to sprint flat out for 30 seconds, rest for 90 and repeat x 8. Sprinting for 30 seconds is equal to about 100 metres for the average joe.

Earlier on in thread it was suggested to sprint for 30-50 metres which is only about 10-15 seconds.

I'm not being pedantic but there is a massive difference in sprinting for 30 seconds versus 15 seconds.

I'm confused now and Wondering whether I should be doing the sprint for 15 or 30 seconds ?

Just sitting in park here after me second session and I'm ****ed.

So here is how it went today. I must admit I totally fooked up me first day and was way off the mark with distances etc...... I didn't even time it properly, I must have only been sprinting for about 8 seconds.

Found a spot today. Stepped it out, it's 117 big steps so that's about 95 metres. I can sprint this in 20 seconds.

Did this 6 times with the break of 90 seconds in between, was too fooked to jog this 90 seconds so just walked it.

I'm wondering should I just be sprinting 50 metres which means a flat out time of only 12 seconds or so.

If I do only do the sprinting for 50 metres, should I shorten the rest time in between sprints to 60 seconds instead of 90 seconds ?

The reason I'm saying this is cause at start of thread it was suggested to only sprint 50 metres and I'm sprinting twice that like.

Brian · 20-07-2014 01:08PM

Be careful that you're warming up properly when doing actual sprints, it's quite easy to injure yourself if you don't.

Interval training , Hiit, sprints.

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