Those damn cyclists again!

Jawgap · 18-07-2014 06:01AM

dubscottie wrote: »

Because they think they have a right to do what they want and to hell with the law.. That is it.. You just have to look at that knob on youtube from Dublin that thinks he is a Garda or any other similar videos.

I am a Motorcyclist.. I am at more of a risk or injury etc that cyclists, but do you see me going through red lights when the little green man is showing or acting like a prick on the road? No. Why?

Because I don't have the same self entitlement complex that cyclists do..

You ride a bike.. Good stuff, here is a medal, now get your heads out your arses and follow the law!

And 1.5 meters is a recommendation NOT a legal requirement..

Just about every time I drive the M1 I always see at least one motorcyclist go between vehicles to overtake - cars travelling in excess of 100 km/hr and these idiots go between them??

Some cyclists do illegal and inconsiderate things, but this has to be the most idiotic manoeuvre consistently seen on Irish roads.

Which brings us back to an earlier point, you'll find idiots in all classes of road users........they are not confined to bicycles.

EDIT: the more I think about it, the more I think it's hilarious that motorcyclists are held up as models of road traffic law compliance...........they clearly skip over those bits of road traffic law and the RotR that apply to bus lanes!

Canis Lupus · 18-07-2014 06:16AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Just about every time I drive the M1 I always see at least one motorcyclist go between vehicles to overtake - cars travelling in excess of 100 km/hr and these idiots go between them??

Some cyclists do illegal and inconsiderate things, but this has to be the most idiotic manoeuvre consistently seen on Irish roads.

Which brings us back to an earlier point, you'll find idiots in all classes of road users........they are not confined to bicycles.

EDIT: the more I think about it, the more I think it's hilarious that motorcyclists are held up as models of road traffic law compliance...........they clearly skip over those bits of road traffic law and the RotR that apply to bus lanes!

I'm also a motorbiker and here in QLD Australia where lane splitting and filtering is illegal they all still do it including overtaking on the left on a single lane of traffic. Never mind the 'knee down' crowd on the popular twisty roads on the weekends.

I imagine Dubscottie, way up there on his high harley horse, though blanks all the stuff his fellow engined road users get up to and I'm sure he's never done anything illegal on the road.

Jawgap · 18-07-2014 06:37AM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I'm also a motorbiker and here in QLD Australia where lane splitting and filtering is illegal they all still do it including overtaking on the left on a single lane of traffic. Never mind the 'knee down' crowd on the popular twisty roads on the weekends.

I imagine Dubscottie, way up there on his high harley horse, though blanks all the stuff his fellow engined road users get up to and I'm sure he's never done anything illegal on the road.

When I lived in the UK, I lived quite close to the Helmesley TT (real name - the B1257 Great Broughton to Helmsley Road)

Fabulous bit of road and lovely to cycle on, but generally to be avoided at weekends because the motorcyclists would take over.

.....also, at one time, reputed to be one of the most heavily policed roads in the UK not because of the speeding motorcyclists - but because of what was happening to them....

What can be done with deadly 'Helmsley TT' road?

Hidden dangers of the road dubbed the "Helmsley TT"

'Rider' Magazine rated it as great

Pinch Flat · 18-07-2014 07:11AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

I don't think the pedestrian controlled vehicles that are subject to taxation do much damage either but they still pay €88 I think that would be an equitable fee for cyclists,after all they could then pay it to the local government fund (as does motor tax) and use it to keep cycle lanes in good repair

What are these pedestrian controlled vehicles? It's just that the RTA defines a
“pedestrian-controlled mechanically propelled vehicle" weighing less than 8 cwt.

Can you point out where the engine on my bike is? It's just I popped out to the shed and couldn't see it. My offer of €1.50 per annum is fair and reasonable, based on zero emissions (there are currently zero emission vehicles that are tax exempt).

We should have a pedestrian tax as well to pay for the upkeep of the footpaths. I think you're onto something here.

Spook_ie · 18-07-2014 09:08AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

What are these pedestrian controlled vehicles? It's just that the RTA defines a
“pedestrian-controlled mechanically propelled vehicle" weighing less than 8 cwt.

Can you point out where the engine on my bike is? It's just I popped out to the shed and couldn't see it. My offer of €1.50 per annum is fair and reasonable, based on zero emissions (there are currently zero emission vehicles that are tax exempt).

We should have a pedestrian tax as well to pay for the upkeep of the footpaths. I think you're onto something here.

Nah not really, it isn't a tax based on emissions or cc, according to the tax site it's basis of taxation is "standard" no reason why a pedestrian powered vehicle couldn't be taxed as standard. Maybe an extra 50% for things like rickshaws etc.

Pinch Flat · 18-07-2014 09:27AM

So you come up with a fictitious vehicle class now we're on to rickshaws - again another zero emission vehicle. Perhaps some merit in licensing these like taxis - they carry fair paying passengers. So different than your average joe like myself commuting to o work.

rather than going around in circles, any counties that spring to mind that successfully tax cyclists?

And let's say we do have a regime here that taxes bikes, and 7000 cyclists that go into Dublin have a revolt and take to their cars, I presume you'd be happy with increased commuting times and additional congestion?

papu · 18-07-2014 09:28AM

Tarzana wrote: »

Any inkling why cyclists might be so defensive?

Perhaps it could be because some cyclists do actually follow the rules , they do stop at the lights , they do throw out hand signals when turning , but are still bullied on the road by cars , buses and taxis .. Tbh it doesn't matter what the cyclists has done for the last 5 years regarding rules on the road , it just takes one idiot motorist to get it wrong once to kill or paralyse.

Tenzor07 · 18-07-2014 09:31AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

What are these pedestrian controlled vehicles? It's just that the RTA defines a“pedestrian-controlled mechanically propelled vehicle" weighing less than 8 cwt.
Can you point out where the engine on my bike is? It's just I popped out to the shed and couldn't see it. My offer of €1.50 per annum is fair and reasonable, based on zero emissions (there are currently zero emission vehicles that are tax exempt).We should have a pedestrian tax as well to pay for the upkeep of the footpaths. I think you're onto something here.

Spook has Zero interest in Taxation for upkeep of paths and roads...

Every one of his posts is a (very)Thinly Veiled "Tax something out of existence" plain and simple, so don't waste your posts..

Along with replying to the other BS posts which shift the blame onto the victim..

No one mode of transport is perfect, e.g. Motorcyclists don't make me laugh...

ThisRegard · 18-07-2014 09:38AM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

This one is great because the car driver that posted it thought he was overtaken incorrectly on the roundabout....

That's hilarious. It's bad enough that he didn't see the big left turn arrow on the road at the time he was driving, but he still never saw it when he uploaded the video to YouTube, nor did he see it when he added it to the dashcam thread.

CramCycle · 18-07-2014 09:38AM

dubscottie wrote: »

I am a Motorcyclist.. I am at more of a risk or injury etc that cyclists, but do you see me going through red lights when the little green man is showing or acting like a prick on the road? No. Why?

Oddly enough, the new little game I see MCs at is hopping off their bike at reds ala Mr. Bean and wheeling it around the corner. Like everyone else though, I only remember those and the chicken chasers with no lights dropping off pizza and cutting me up, not the other 99% of MCs who are cautious.
It's human nature but please, keep lumping us altogether into the one homogenous group, that's what we all are, identical, no different.

More at risk than cyclists? how is that? if cyclists are causing so much danger? Why don't you slow down and observe traffic to reduce that risk appropriately

blacklilly · 18-07-2014 09:39AM

papu wrote: »

it just takes one idiot motorist to get it wrong once to kill or paralyse.

Or one idiot cyclist to ruin a drivers life and that of his/her own

cournioni · 18-07-2014 09:42AM

Two postmen cycling the wrong way down a one way street this morning forcing me to stop suddenly when coming out of where I live. Another followed, cycling on the footpath. I guess at least it was a two way footpath. :rolleyes:

That is two incidents in the space of three days involving five cyclists breaking the rules on my 30 minute commute.

Jawgap · 18-07-2014 09:44AM

papu wrote: »

Perhaps it could be because some cyclists do actually follow the rules , they do stop at the lights , they do throw out hand signals when turning , but are still bullied on the road by cars , buses and taxis .. Tbh it doesn't matter what the cyclists has done for the last 5 years regarding rules on the road , it just takes one idiot motorist to get it wrong once to kill or paralyse.

I think you can add cyclists to the list of 'bullies'.......more than once I've been bumped and / or shouted at by another cyclist for stopping at red.

One fine fellow even told me "you don't have to stop, you're on a bike!!"

All you can really do is wonder at the mentality of some people.......

blacklilly · 18-07-2014 09:45AM

After my observations the other evening regarding being delayed in traffic etc, I decided to observe cyclists at traffic lights to see how many were obeying the lights.

At one particular junction on the rock road heading out of town, 2 cyclists stopped at the red, at least 10 didn't, this was repeated my whole way home.

Tenzor07 · 18-07-2014 09:46AM

cournioni wrote: »

Two postmen cycling the wrong way down a one way street this morning forcing me to stop suddenly when coming out of where I live. Another followed, cycling on the footpath. I guess at least it was a two way footpath. :rolleyes:
That is two incidents in the space of three days involving five cyclists breaking the rules on my 30 minute commute.

Report them to AnPost so...

rubadub · 18-07-2014 09:47AM

Some people seem to think cyclists not being taxed was some overlooked loophole or something, or that they just couldn't figure out a good way to implement it. Is there anyone who honestly cannot understand why cyclists are in amongst the wide group of non-motor tax paying motorists.

If people feel strongly about it rather than campaigning for taxing cyclists your first job should be to get onto your local TD to scrap the cycle to work scheme, where people get VAT back after buying a bike. This would then lead to more cars on the road which I presume the moaners would prefer.

I certainly doubt you will get a tax introduced when in some other european countries they actually pay people to cycle.

France experiments with paying people to cycle to work
PARIS Mon Jun 2, 2014 1:07pm EDT

(Reuters) - France has started a six-month experiment with paying people to cycle to work, joining other European governments in trying to boost bicycle use to boost people's health, reduce air pollution and cut fossil fuel consumption.

Several countries including the Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Belgium and Britain have bike-to-work schemes, with different kinds of incentives such as tax breaks, payments per kilometer and financial support for buying bicycles.

In France, some 20 companies and institutions employing a total of 10,000 people have signed up to pay their staff 25 euro cents (34 U.S. cents) per kilometer biked to work, the transport ministry said in a statement on Monday.

French Transport Minister Frederic Cuvillier, noting that commuting using public transport and cars is already subsidized, said that if results of the test are promising, a second experiment on a larger scale will be done.

The ministry hopes that the bike-to-work incentive scheme will boost bike use for commuting by 50 percent from 2.4 percent of all work-home journeys, or about 800 million km, with an average distance of 3.5 km per journey.

In Belgium, where a tax-free bike incentive scheme has been in place for more than five years, about 8 percent of all commutes are on bicycles. In the flat and bicycle-friendly Netherlands, it is about 25 percent, cycling organizations say.

The Brussels-based European Cyclists' Federation has European Union funding to study best practices among various cycling incentive schemes, the group's Bike2Work project manager Randy Rzewnicki said.

City bike-loan schemes have played a large role in boosting bicycle commuting and cities including Barcelona, London and Stockholm have followed the model of the Velib in Paris.

cournioni · 18-07-2014 09:49AM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Report them to AnPost so...

I am in the process of doing so.

blacklilly · 18-07-2014 09:50AM

Also I must add, I was witness to an horrific accident a few years ago which resulted in a cyclist being severly brain damaged and paralysed. I witnessed the whole thing and was at the scene with this cyclists trying to help before emergency services arrived.
This cyclists was wearing every possible protection possible yet they did something stupid that resulted in the accident, it was 100% the cyclists fault.

Every road user must take responsibility and unfortuantely we can only count on ourselves to be safe because there will always be people who take silly chances.

Postit · 18-07-2014 09:51AM

blacklilly wrote: »

After my observations the other evening regarding being delayed in traffic etc, I decided to observe cyclists at traffic lights to see how many were obeying the lights.

At one particular junction on the rock road heading out of town, 2 cyclists stopped at the red, at least 10 didn't, this was repeated my whole way home.

I'd say you're great craic at a party!

cournioni · 18-07-2014 09:52AM

rubadub wrote: »

Some people seem to think cyclists not being taxed was some overlooked loophole or something, or that they just couldn't figure out a good way to implement it. Is there anyone who honestly cannot understand why cyclists are in amongst the wide group of non-motor tax paying motorists.

If people feel strongly about it rather than campaigning for taxing cyclists your first job should be to get onto your local TD to scrap the cycle to work scheme, where people get VAT back after buying a bike. This would then lead to more cars on the road which I presume the moaners law obeying motorists would prefer.

I certainly doubt you will get a tax introduced when in some other european countries they actually pay people to cycle.

Fixed your post there.

nekuchi · 18-07-2014 09:52AM

Irishcrx wrote: »

Problem caused by ... moving into the road the middle of the road ... obviously some people on here never driven on a public road.

Hmmm, so what about those drivers who, for no apparent reason, must drive in the middle lane on a motorway when there's no traffic to overtake and so cause a backup of traffic behind them because they block the flow by being in the wrong lane?

Jawgap · 18-07-2014 09:53AM

blacklilly wrote: »

Or one idiot cyclist to ruin a drivers life and that of his/her own

From the RSA commentary on the provision 2013 collision data....

Of all fatalities and serious injuries recorded between 1997 and 2011, speed was a contributory factor in 22% of fatalities and in 19% of serious injuries.

The most recent RSA Free-Speed Surveys (an observational survey) indicates that speeding rates on rural roads, where most accidents occur, declined from a high of 22% in 2009, to 15.7% in 2011, but increased to 19.8% in 2012.

and

A review of the 2013 fatal collisions among car/van fatal collisions indicates that in the case of 19% of these collisions, a seatbelt was not worn. This suggests that 21 fatalities may have been prevented had a seatbelt been worn........ in a significant proportion of collisions, it was not possible for the Garda at the scene to record whether or not a seatbelt was worn

Speed and seatbelts - two things wholly within the control of the driver......drivers ruin drivers' lives not cyclists.

blacklilly · 18-07-2014 09:53AM

Postit wrote: »

I'd say you're great craic at a party!

Well I had little more to do when stuck in traffic. I wasn't going to apply my makeup or call some friends

cournioni · 18-07-2014 09:53AM

Postit wrote: »

I'd say you're great craic at a party!

As opposed to a cyclist standing on the bar knocking over drinks I presume.

Spook_ie · 18-07-2014 09:57AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

So you come up with a fictitious vehicle class now we're on to rickshaws - again another zero emission vehicle. Perhaps some merit in licensing these like taxis - they carry fair paying passengers. So different than your average joe like myself commuting to o work.

rather than going around in circles, any counties that spring to mind that successfully tax cyclists?

And let's say we do have a regime here that taxes bikes, and 7000 cyclists that go into Dublin have a revolt and take to their cars, I presume you'd be happy with increased commuting times and additional congestion?

Why's it a fictitious class, just a logical extension to increase the general taxation base of Ireland.

Do you not like the idea of equitable taxation? I do.

While we're on the subject of radical thoughts, why not another! Use the money raised by (let's be fair) a €52 taxation class on cycles ( yeah €1 a week would bring in circa €364000 per year, based on just the 7000 Dublin cyclists in your post, to bring in a pseudo free registration scheme for any cyclist over the age of criminal responsibilty, I dunno maybe kill another 2 birds by a 6 digit hexadecimal number on a high viz jacket, and making it compulsary to wear the registration number when not in a certified and organised race.

As for 7000 cyclists, who cares, you want to revolt, then revolt away, as long as you obey the traffic laws in your cars it'll be legal

As to any countries springing to mind, did any spring to mind before smoking bans?

Tenzor07 · 18-07-2014 09:57AM

rubadub wrote: »

Some people seem to think cyclists not being taxed was some overlooked loophole or something, or that they just couldn't figure out a good way to implement it. Is there anyone who honestly cannot understand why cyclists are in amongst the wide group of non-motor tax paying motorists. If people feel strongly about it rather than campaigning for taxing cyclists your first job should be to get onto your local TD to scrap the cycle to work scheme, where people get VAT back after buying a bike. This would then lead to more cars on the road which I presume the moaners would prefer.I certainly doubt you will get a tax introduced when in some other european countries they actually pay people to cycle.

As with my previous post, it's not about introducing a Tax on bicyclists, it's about Taxing something so it makes too costly an option, therefore reducing the numbers involved...

Just like Alcohol, just keep adding tax to it because of the minority of idiots who cannot control there level of usage to the detriment of the majority who just want to go for a quiet pint at the weekends....

Postit · 18-07-2014 09:58AM

blacklilly wrote: »

Well I had little more to do when stuck in traffic. I wasn't going to apply my makeup or call some friends

You have friends? Seriously?

Tenzor07 · 18-07-2014 09:58AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

Why's it a fictitious class, just a logical extension to increase the general taxation base of Ireland.
Do you not like the idea of equitable taxation? I do.
While we're on the subject of radical thoughts, why not another! Use the money raised by (let's be fair) a €52 taxation class on cycles ( yeah €1 a week would bring in circa €364000 per year, based on just the 7000 Dublin cyclists in your post, to bring in a pseudo free registration scheme for any cyclist over the age of criminal responsibilty, I dunno maybe kill another 2 birds by a 6 digit hexadecimal number on a high viz jacket, and making it compulsary to wear the registration number when not in a certified and organised race.
As for 7000 cyclists, who cares, you want to revolt, then revolt away, as long as you obey the traffic laws in your cars it'll be legal
As to any countries springing to mind, did any spring to mind before smoking bans?

Yada, yada, all I hear is tax the man on his bicycle off the road....

blacklilly · 18-07-2014 09:58AM

Jawgap wrote: »

From the RSA commentary on the provision 2013 collision data....

and

Speed and seatbelts - two things wholly within the control of the driver......drivers ruin drivers' lives not cyclists.

This provides zero detail on the correlation of driver error/cyclist error in respect of accidents involving cyclists.
We are taking about cyclists here. You'd have to be living under a stone for the past 10 years not to reailse that speed is one of the main reason for fatal road collisions.
I'd liek to know the % of cyclists error in respect to fatal accidents involving cyclists

Spook_ie · 18-07-2014 09:59AM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Spook has Zero interest in Taxation for upkeep of paths and roads...

Every one of his posts is a (very)Thinly Veiled "Tax something out of existence" plain and simple, so don't waste your posts..

Along with replying to the other BS posts which shift the blame onto the victim..

No one mode of transport is perfect, e.g. Motorcyclists don't make me laugh...

No you just don't like free radical thought if it doesn't agree with your thoughts. I just point out relevant motor law, like checking behind BEFORE changing lanes etc.

Those damn cyclists again!

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