Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

tossy · 17-07-2014 08:25AM

Business Cat wrote: »

LVG allegedly donated the £1,000,000 that would have been an agent fee had he used one when negotiating with United, to charity.

Also on the red tops it's saying that some players won't even be given a chance with him and they (sic) will be given 48 hours to leave the club.

I'm picturing him as an Arniesque Terminator giving Ando, Fletch and a load more their marching orders.

Can't wait for the press conference, I wonder which journo he will make shyte of first.

He gave 500k and United matched it, nice touch and a good way to endear himself to the English public, he's a class act, can't wait for the season to start.

I've no massive expectations, i see him as a clean up man - get rid of the dead weight (many of) and bring in a few players i think this time next year after hopefully finishing 4th or higher we can attract a few big name players. I think we will finish in the top 4 at the expense of either Liverpool or Arsenal (maybe that in itself is a massive expectation lol)

homerjay2005 · 17-07-2014 08:37AM

brinty wrote: »

Jesus Homer, way to bring down the positivity flowing through the thread. We appoint a successful manager and get some early deals done with more to come, we loosen the purse strings and don't act the cheap skate, we conclude a massive kit deal thats 2.5 time bigger than any other in the world and you're not happy...FFS dude cheer the hell up would you
.

theres positivity which sometimes here equates to head in sand madness and then theres realism. the realism is for 3 or 4 years now weve been matching the likes of City and Chelsea for spending, yet we have very little to show for it and the gap to the other teams is widening.

Van Gaal hopefully is a fantastic addition, but its very ironic to see so many people moaning about others accepting low ambitions for next season, but you for example are happy to accept it when it comes to playing quality.

we have an obscene wage bill at the moment which is rising every year, meanwhile the quality of our football has dropped alarmingly every year for the last 4 years - Van Gaal may improve this and he should, but at the same time unless the club spends that money you talk about on top quality players, its going to be more of the same.

as regards your last paragraph, all we ever hear for every single top transfer target that goes elsewhere, is excuses. im not asking for 5 or 6 world class players every year or a Messi or a Falcao, but surely to f*ck our club can go out every year and sign one or two of the top 20-30 players in the world? is that not something you think a club of our size and power should be doing?

FutureGuy · 17-07-2014 08:46AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

theres positivity which sometimes here equates to head in sand madness and then theres realism. the realism is for 3 or 4 years now weve been matching the likes of City and Chelsea for spending, yet we have very little to show for it and the gap to the other teams is widening.

Van Gaal hopefully is a fantastic addition, but its very ironic to see so many people moaning about others accepting low ambitions for next season, but you for example are happy to accept it when it comes to playing quality.

we have an obscene wage bill at the moment which is rising every year, meanwhile the quality of our football has dropped alarmingly every year for the last 4 years - Van Gaal may improve this and he should, but at the same time unless the club spends that money you talk about on top quality players, its going to be more of the same.

as regards your last paragraph, all we ever hear for every single top transfer target that goes elsewhere, is excuses. im not asking for 5 or 6 world class players every year or a Messi or a Falcao, but surely to f*ck our club can go out every year and sign one or two of the top players in the world? is that not something you think a club of our size and power should be doing?

The club is based in Manchester. Not London or Monaco or another social mecca. Getting a top TOP player, with wag included, to locate to rainy Manchester, is tough (look at Fabregas, and on the other side of the coin, Vidic). Unless you're City and you can pay ridiculous wages.

But that's fine. We may miss out on a number of players because of this, but we'll get the players who put the club ahead of the social life. That's what has immediately impressed me about Herrera and especially Shaw. Shaw could be living it up in London playing for his childhood club. Nope, upped sticks and joined us in crappy Manchester. That's the type of player that I want at the club.

Crimson King · 17-07-2014 08:48AM

In the last twelve months the club has spent £123 M on signings without anything major going the other way. Under LVG I believe he will only buy the players he wants to fit his system and I fully expect more signings. Whether they are the names we as supporters have been baying for, for the last few seasons is another question entirely. However I am much more confidant as a supporter that within twelve months the outlook will be more positive.

When the club were beaten last season there was no fight in the players whatsoever. I never want to see this again and someone like Van Gaal will not allow it. Interesting times ahead. Two more strategic signings and I feel the club has the players it needs again.

Cannot wait till the first press conference, I expect the journalists to behave themselves as they all know what will happen. Fergie used the silent treatment and that was it, your privileges were removed. Van Gaal attacks, and it’s a joy to watch

homerjay2005 · 17-07-2014 08:51AM

FutureGuy wrote: »

The club is based in Manchester. Not London or Monaco or another social mecca. Getting a top TOP player, with wag included, to locate to rainy Manchester, is tough (look at Fabregas, and on the other side of the coin, Vidic). Unless you're City and you can pay ridiculous wages.

we ARE paying ridculous wages, our wage bill is one of the highest in world football. taking vidic, rio, evra and giggs off the wage bill, along with 3 or 4 more to go means we have a £20million gap (could even rise up to £34million) right now in our wage budget, one that our CE told our sharholders 3 months ago would rise by up to 10% in the summer.

so please, this entire money and wages thing is bollix - its there and its being spent, just not on the right players.

FutureGuy wrote: »

That's the type of player that I want at the club.

that is all well and good, but this is football, not a romance novel.

Lord TSC · 17-07-2014 08:51AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

as regards your last paragraph, all we ever hear for every single top transfer target that goes elsewhere, is excuses. im not asking for 5 or 6 world class players every year or a Messi or a Falcao, but surely to f*ck our club can go out every year and sign one or two of the top 20-30 players in the world? is that not something you think a club of our size and power should be doing?

I think, imo, the problem comes down to the fact that for so long, we didn't HAVE to do it. Not saying we SHOULDN'T have been doing it, mind, but that it wasn't the fabled "United way". Fergie, year in and year out, bought what he needed to be there or there abouts, winning the league or coming damn close. Last year, I think Moyes tried but he, as a manager, was off putting to some players, and the mindset still existed he had a title winning team who didn't need much tinkering.

This year then, we've got the issue of the lack of CL football; staying with the Arsenal example, they are bringing in big players thanks to the fact they have a respected manager and, this year as compared to us, have CL football.

If we're talking about "realities" and so on, then the reality is the world class players you'd want and the ones available will likely have many teams chasing after them, and the reality is that once they are available, other teams have what we have and more to offer. Chelsea have a top manager, ample cash and CL football. Arsenal have a respected manager, CL football and are starting to show they have cash too. City have all that as well.

Liverpool, mind, are showing CL football isn't the be all and end all, as they are also struggling to attract top level players who are choosing other destinations as well.

But the point remains that the level of player you're calling for will have many options who are more attractive than us right now. For me, it's not about getting the top players in. It's got to be about getting the RIGHT players in, and they might not necessarily be the biggest names moving about.

Ed The Equalizer · 17-07-2014 08:57AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

but surely to f*ck our club can go out every year and sign one or two of the top 20-30 players in the world?

This has never happened...

homerjay2005 · 17-07-2014 08:59AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

I For me, it's not about getting the top players in. It's got to be about getting the RIGHT players in, and they might not necessarily be the biggest names moving about.

yes, the right players. the last 4 years we have spent £239million yet if you asked people on here to pick a strong starting 11, right now there would only be 5 or 6 players who'd get in everybodys team.

£85million of that was spent on players who may not even be seen near the first team this year and thats excluding the likes of Valencia, Smalling, Hernandez, Kagawa who the manager may not even fancy.

so ya, right players as you say.

Taok wrote: »

This has never happened...

likewise, we never before in our clubs history were spending money to match every other club. the money we have spent in the last year or two is at levels unheard of in our club. so why not spend it on the right players, as is outline above?

and i want to make it clear, im not demanding we sign ronaldo or messi for £100million every year, but players are available every year and a club of our size should be able to pull off one of them every summer and it shouldnt necessarily have to cost €40million either.

FutureGuy · 17-07-2014 09:00AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we ARE paying ridculous wages, our wage bill is one of the highest in world football.

Yes, because we ARE one of the top clubs in world football. I'm comparing us to City directly.

And I think we all know that this year is very different. A number of big earners are off the books and a number of others won't be around come January.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

that is all well and good, but this is football, not a romance novel.

Romance novel? A player has a choice. Join the club he suppoted as a boy (a chance that may not ever happen again) and live in London or join Manchester United and live in Manchester.

That's not romance, it's actually the opposite! The move to Chelsea could be considered "romantic" but the United move is clearly the sign of a kid who has more professional attitude in one of his metatarsals than many players plying their trade in England.

And as I said, that's the type of player that I want at the club.

EDIT: What I'm getting at is that there are many players who want to play football in a certain city rather than play football for a certain club.

Ed The Equalizer · 17-07-2014 09:06AM

FutureGuy wrote: »

That's not romance, it's actually the opposite! The move to Chelsea could be considered "romantic" but the United move is clearly the sign of a kid who has more professional attitude in one of his metatarsals than many players plying their trade in England.

Even more so when you change Chelsea to Barcelona or Madrid.

City are similar, more money than us but have rarely signed a player who'd be considered in the top 20-30 in the world.

brinty · 17-07-2014 09:07AM

Taok wrote: »

Even more so when you change Chelsea to Barcelona or Madrid.

City are similar, more money than us but have rarely signed a player who'd be considered in the top 20-30 in the world.

Toure and Aguero say hello

adox · 17-07-2014 09:08AM

Taok wrote: »

This has never happened...

You are kidding right?

brinty · 17-07-2014 09:09AM

Homer
Our wage bill i believe is barely top 5 in england some come off it as regards us spunking money all over the place.

Yes we've spunked it away on many unsuitable players but we seem to be getting the house in order now

homerjay2005 · 17-07-2014 09:09AM

FutureGuy wrote: »

That's not romance, it's actually the opposite! The move to Chelsea could be considered "romantic" but the United move is clearly the sign of a kid who has more professional attitude in one of his metatarsals than many players plying their trade in England.

And as I said, that's the type of player that I want at the club.

the shaw deal has many angles you can take, depending on what you want to believe -

its very very possible, that once the fee required to sign him became clear, Chelsea were not interested in signing him so Chelsea was not an option for him. the fee for him was madness and we were the only ones who'd actually pay it.

Shaw came out and said that he never considered Chelsea - again, you can take him for his word on that or not.

the entire "boyhood" club thing is something that we dont know was true, especially when he said that every young player in England aspires to play for Manchester United. he may have been a Chelsea fan due to family allegiances, but i doubt he was the type of lad that was itching to be down at Stamford Bridge every saturday out of natural urge, as you suggest.

Ed The Equalizer · 17-07-2014 09:10AM

adox wrote: »

You are kidding right?

Never happened as in we sign 1-2 of the top 20-30 every year.

Van Persie was one. Who else? Veron?

Maximus Alexander · 17-07-2014 09:10AM

brinty wrote: »

Toure and Aguero say hello

The word 'rarely' in his post says hello. :P

brinty · 17-07-2014 09:10AM

adox wrote: »

You are kidding right?

Tell me a top 20-30 player in the world we've signed prior to last summer.

Veron was the exception rather than the rule

We signed many many up and coming players but never the absolute best in the world

Maximus Alexander · 17-07-2014 09:13AM

brinty wrote: »

Tell me a top 20-30 player in the world we've signed prior to last summer.

Veron was the exception rather than the rule

We signed many many up and coming players but never the absolute best in the world

Hard to argue with this, all you have to do is look at how stunned everyone was when RVP was signed for evidence. It was out of character for the club to sign a top player at their peak rather than a prospective top player working their way up.

Will I Amnt · 17-07-2014 09:14AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

The word 'rarely' in his post says hello. :P

Toure was surplus to requirements at Barca at the time, he wasn't rated anywhere near as highly as he is now.

homerjay2005 · 17-07-2014 09:15AM

Taok wrote: »

Never happened as in we sign 1-2 of the top 20-30 every year.

Van Persie was one. Who else? Veron?

just because it doesnt happen, doesnt mean it shouldnt. if we added ONE top class player every season since 2008 as opposed to spending it on Jones, Young and Co, we'd perhaps be talking about having 6 or 7 top class players now as opposed to 3 or 4.

even if we just signed one top quality player last summer and one this summer, along with Shaw and herrera, the addition of Van Gaal would i believe see us break back into the top 2, thought it would be difficult.

and i will repeat, the real problem i have is that we just dont seem to be recruiting the right players, players who we can actually fit into our system.

when was the last time we signed a top quality player with pace for example, something that epitomized the club for years?

brinty · 17-07-2014 09:15AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

The word 'rarely' in his post says hello. :P

Can't believe you did that to me Alex

No Bewbs for you now
You're not getting into anymore fantasy line ups playing between Anna Kendrick and J-law

Maximus Alexander · 17-07-2014 09:16AM

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Toure was surplus to requirements at Barca at the time, he wasn't rated anywhere near as highly as he is now.

Don't know why you quoted me for that, but being surplus at Barca doesn't really speak to a player's quality. They're crazy.

brinty wrote: »

Can't believe you did that to me Alex

No Bewbs for you now
You're not getting into anymore fantasy line ups playing between Anna Kendrick and J-law

I already have them all stuck to my wall anyway, but the GIFs won't animate for some reason.

Will I Amnt · 17-07-2014 09:18AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Don't know why you quoted me for that, but being surplus at Barca doesn't really speak to a player's quality. They're crazy.

He wasn't a top 20-30 player in the world at the time, he became that at City.

brinty · 17-07-2014 09:22AM

Will I Amnt wrote: »

He wasn't a top 20-30 player in the world at the time, he became that at City.

He was top 20-30 without a doubt, but when more than half that Barac team were top 10 never mind top 20-30...Messi, Xavi & Iniesta were top 5...Biscuits was pushing itno the team too...baraca through and through

adox · 17-07-2014 09:23AM

brinty wrote: »

Tell me a top 20-30 player in the world we've signed prior to last summer.

Veron was the exception rather than the rule

We signed many many up and coming players but never the absolute best in the world

Off the top of my head - Stam, Van Nistelrooy, Veron.

Anyway Taok has since clarified that he was referring to signings every year, which is fair enough.

markcahill1985 · 17-07-2014 09:32AM

Matthias Ginter has signed for Dortmund, Hummels replacement??

Irishcrx · 17-07-2014 09:35AM

markcahill1985 wrote: »

Matthias Ginter has signed for Dortmund, Hummels replacement??

I woulnd't think so, Dortmund fell very short in the back line through injuries last season and cost them a lot of points , always thought they would sign 1/2 defenders this season. Wouldn't look too much into it.

brinty · 17-07-2014 09:44AM

Kroos to Real confirmed
How much will they spend this summer
Kroos 25m
Rodriguez 60-70m
Falcao 60-70m
anyone else ...

ericzeking · 17-07-2014 09:48AM

So we're back to doom and gloom again so?

Feck it anyway....it was such a pleasant place to drop in on the last while.

I read that Jamie Jackson dudes article on LVGs first day....good god these lads are so full of sh!te....the amount of conclusions drawn and suggestions made without one shred of hard evidence, not one quote...he reckons Smalling could be used as a makeweight for Vermaelen...obviously just made it up like, it's not like we have centre backs to be off-loading...he reckoned LVG was paying particular attention to Cleverley and other lads who's contracts are running down.... I nearly get sick all over the office desk when I read the stuff these guys spout.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jul/16/louis-van-gaal-flies-in-mark-manchester-united

On the whole Vidal thing that there was a bit of a meltdown about yesterday, I believe it may or may not happen, it's more likely to not....however, nothing that happened yesterday made it any more or less likely to happen than it was the day before.

'Club president in star player sale rebuttal shocker.....'

Adamcp898 · 17-07-2014 09:48AM

brinty wrote: »

Kroos to Real confirmed
How much will they spend this summer
Kroos 25m
Rodriguez 60-70m
Falcao 60-70m
anyone else ...

They'll make the majority of that back between selling Khedira, Di Maria, Moratta and anyone else I'm forgetting. Probably just end up spending ~50m, small money :cool:

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

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