Criticism Of Islam And Alleged Racism

S.O · 16-07-2014 05:59PM #1

Ever notice when having a discussion on religion with some people, who would be left leaning about religion if you criticise the catholic church or criticise scientology they will mostly agree with you, but criticise Islam and nearly straight away a kneejerk reaction ah that,s racist or the false concept of a term Islamiphobia will be used etc, here s the thing why is supposingly racist to criticise Islam and not racist to criticise other religions ?

Nodin · 16-07-2014 06:00PM

S.O wrote: »

Ever notice when having a discussion on religion with some people, who would be left leaning about religion if you criticise the catholic church or criticise scientology they will mostly agree with you, but criticise Islam and nearly straight away a kneejerk reaction ah that,s racist or the false concept of a term Islamiphobia will be used etc, here s the thing why is supposingly racist to criticise Islam and not racist to criticise other religions ?

Do please give an example of what criticism draws this claim of Islamophobia.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 16-07-2014 06:03PM

Because people 'criticising Islam' are actually usually criticising 'Muslims', and not even that, but usually 'non-white Muslims'. And they say things like 'those Muslims want sharia law/hate women/are taking over the place'. Criticism of the unpleasant aspects of Islam is one thing, ignorant prejudice against a billion people with no accounting for the fact that only a minority are exremists is another.

S.O · 16-07-2014 06:04PM

Nodin wrote: »

Do please give an example of what criticism draws this claim of Islamophobia.

From observing a certain thread or two on facebook, where a friend posted videos of youtube bloogers Thunderfoot and Pat Condell and Richard Dawkins criticising Islam, straight away some people gave a kneejerk reaction Islamophobia/ racism etc.

Insect Overlord · 16-07-2014 06:06PM

S.O wrote: »

From observing a certain thread or two on facebook, where a friend posted videos of youtube bloogers Thunderfoot and Pat Condell and Richard Dawkins criticising Islam, straight away some people gave a kneejerk reaction Islamophobia/ racism etc.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

darkpagandeath · 16-07-2014 06:07PM

We need to stop pandering to any Religion. Keep it in your home or place of worship. If i want to join i will find out about your religion. State needs to separate from Religion also and create legislation that state schools are none denomination.

Nodin · 16-07-2014 06:08PM

S.O wrote: »

From observing a certain thread or two on facebook, where a friend posted videos of youtube bloogers Thunderfoot and Pat Condell and Richard Dawkins criticising Islam, straight away some people gave a kneejerk reaction Islamophobia/ racism etc.

Dawkins may have a valid point, but I'd have to know what specifically he said.

Condell is an arsehole who descended into monomaniacal bigotry a long time ago.

I've heard of "Thunderfoot" in connection to other issues but I've no idea what his views are or what might come out with.

Do you remember what they said, in summary?

_Redzer_ · 16-07-2014 06:08PM

I criticise them all equally when they start to affect people in negative ways, like the Islamic attitude towards women.

floggg · 16-07-2014 06:09PM

S.O wrote: »

Ever notice when having a discussion on religion with some people, who would be left leaning about religion if you criticise the catholic church or criticise scientology they will mostly agree with you, but criticise Islam and nearly straight away a kneejerk reaction ah that,s racist or the false concept of a term Islamiphobia will be used etc, here s the thing why is supposingly racist to criticise Islam and not racist to criticise other religions ?

I know. You can't make any broad brush unsubstantiated criticisms about the billion or so people who call themselves Muslim without a somebody jumping all over you calling you racist or uninformed.

How is that any different from criticism the theory or hierarchy of Christianity? The lefties do that the whole time and nobody says a word!

What? Just because they tend to distinguish between the religion/religious hierarchy and the multitude of religious believers they are meant to be somehow immune from accusations of racism or generalisations?

Muise... · 16-07-2014 06:20PM

Did it occur to you, OP, that people you speak to might be more likely to criticise the Catholic Church because they have direct and bitter experience of it, and they might be less likely to criticise Islam because they don't know too much about it?

Donkey Oaty · 16-07-2014 06:31PM

Once you distinguish between Islam (a mystical set of beliefs, very much open to interpretation) and Islamism (an absolute abhorrence for any secularist) then you'll be grand.

jellyboy · 16-07-2014 06:43PM

Sweet jesus/allah/buddha/flying spaghetti monster not this again…

Donkey Oaty · 16-07-2014 06:46PM

jellyboy wrote: »

flying spaghetti monster

It's "savoury" for him.

16-07-2014 06:47PM

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Once you distinguish between Islam (a mystical set of beliefs, very much open to interpretation) and Islamism (an absolute abhorrence for any secularist) then you'll be grand.

Trouble is the conflation between Islamism and politics/repression that happens, and how happy the media are to leave that conflation unchallenged when reporting.

Donkey Oaty · 16-07-2014 06:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Trouble is the conflation between Islamism and politics/repression that happens, and how happy the media are to leave that conflation unchallenged when reporting.

Some media outlets, but there are honourable exceptions.

Hootanany · 16-07-2014 07:31PM

Its the Racist card its in Vogue at the moment.

Hermy · 16-07-2014 08:03PM

S.O wrote: »

Ever notice when having a discussion on religion with some people, who would be left leaning about religion if you criticise the catholic church or criticise scientology they will mostly agree with you, but criticise Islam and nearly straight away a kneejerk reaction ah that,s racist or the false concept of a term Islamiphobia will be used etc, here s the thing why is supposingly racist to criticise Islam and not racist to criticise other religions ?

What I don't get is the Jews. Dare to criticise them and they call you anti-Semitic. They even have laws in some countries to prevent anyone from saying a bad word against them. How is slagging their religious nonsense any worse than slagging any of the other religious nonsense that is out there?

Donkey Oaty · 16-07-2014 08:05PM

Hermy wrote: »

They even have laws in some countries to prevent anyone from saying a bad word against them.

Citation needed?

Nodin · 16-07-2014 08:05PM

Hermy wrote: »

What I don't get is the Jews. Dare to criticise them and they call you anti-Semitic. They even have laws in some countries to prevent anyone from saying a bad word against them. How is slagging their religious nonsense any worse than slagging any of the other religious nonsense that is out there?

...fairly sure you're wrong there.

darkpagandeath · 16-07-2014 08:06PM

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Citation needed?

Israel ? And being anti Semitic is generally prosecuted under incitement to hatred laws in most countries.

Donkey Oaty · 16-07-2014 08:07PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Israel ?

Citation still needed, already?

Nodin · 16-07-2014 08:07PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Israel ?

Yes, that's a country, not a law or laws within that country.

Muise... · 16-07-2014 08:09PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Israel ? And being anti Semitic is generally prosecuted under incitement to hatred laws in most countries.

Ironically, Arabs are semites too.

darkpagandeath · 16-07-2014 08:10PM

What about this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

hatrickpatrick · 16-07-2014 08:10PM

Tying race to an argument about either religion or politics is an absolute cop out. Religion is entirely separate to race, regardless of whether certain races are more likely to be part of one religion over another. Same with politics.

Donkey Oaty · 16-07-2014 08:11PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

And being anti Semitic is generally prosecuted under incitement to hatred laws in most countries.

Do any prosecutions come to mind that you think are particularly unfair? Not being sarky here, because I genuinely can't think of any (Holocaust denial cases aside, none at all).

Hermy · 16-07-2014 08:12PM

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Citation needed?

I don't have one. It's just a general sense - from the media I suppose - that being anti-semetic is somehow much worse than any other form of racism or religious hatred.

darkpagandeath · 16-07-2014 08:14PM

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Do any prosecutions come to mind that you think are particularly unfair? Not being sarky here, because I genuinely can't think of any (Holocaust denial cases aside, none at all).

Probably any relating to tweets and alike bad trolling and not genuine race hatred.

Donkey Oaty · 16-07-2014 08:14PM

Hermy wrote: »

I don't have one. It's just a general sense - from the media I suppose - that being anti-semetic is somehow much worse than any other form of racism or religious hatred.

The ADL can take some of the credit for that, because they can see anti-Semitism where none exists.

Muise... · 16-07-2014 08:16PM

Hermy wrote: »

What I don't get is the Jews. Dare to criticise them and they call you anti-Semitic. They even have laws in some countries to prevent anyone from saying a bad word against them. How is slagging their religious nonsense any worse than slagging any of the other religious nonsense that is out there?

Slagging their "religious nonsense" (waah Shabbat, haha! - how inane would that be?) is utterly different to insinuating that they are hook-nosed usurers with the baby Jesus' blood on their hands and secret control of banks, governments, and eh, Hollywood... which would be really acting the maggot.

Frank Lee Midere · 16-07-2014 08:16PM

Muise... wrote: »

Did it occur to you, OP, that people you speak to might be more likely to criticise the Catholic Church because they have direct and bitter experience of it, and they might be less likely to criticise Islam because they don't know too much about it?

Criticism of Catholicism is hardly confined to catholic countries. Despite the UK producing Cromwell and the penal laws, the US producing the Know Nothings and the KKK - and despite Catholics being the largest religious immigrant group to the US at least (largely brown people too), it's clear Catholicism is easier to criticise than Islam in either country.

It's a minority religion there so why is it easier to criticise?

Criticism Of Islam And Alleged Racism

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