Criticism Of Islam And Alleged Racism

S.O

Ever notice when having a discussion on religion with some people, who would be left leaning about religion if you criticise the catholic church or criticise scientology they will mostly agree with you, but criticise Islam and nearly straight away a kneejerk reaction ah that,s racist or the false concept of a term Islamiphobia will be used etc, here s the thing why is supposingly racist to criticise Islam and not racist to criticise other religions ?

Nodin

S.O wrote: »

Ever notice when having a discussion on religion with some people, who would be left leaning about religion if you criticise the catholic church or criticise scientology they will mostly agree with you, but criticise Islam and nearly straight away a kneejerk reaction ah that,s racist or the false concept of a term Islamiphobia will be used etc, here s the thing why is supposingly racist to criticise Islam and not racist to criticise other religions ?

Do please give an example of what criticism draws this claim of Islamophobia.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Because people 'criticising Islam' are actually usually criticising 'Muslims', and not even that, but usually 'non-white Muslims'. And they say things like 'those Muslims want sharia law/hate women/are taking over the place'. Criticism of the unpleasant aspects of Islam is one thing, ignorant prejudice against a billion people with no accounting for the fact that only a minority are exremists is another.

S.O

Nodin wrote: »

Do please give an example of what criticism draws this claim of Islamophobia.

From observing a certain thread or two on facebook, where a friend posted videos of youtube bloogers Thunderfoot and Pat Condell and Richard Dawkins criticising Islam, straight away some people gave a kneejerk reaction Islamophobia/ racism etc.

Insect Overlord

S.O wrote: »

From observing a certain thread or two on facebook, where a friend posted videos of youtube bloogers Thunderfoot and Pat Condell and Richard Dawkins criticising Islam, straight away some people gave a kneejerk reaction Islamophobia/ racism etc.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

darkpagandeath

We need to stop pandering to any Religion. Keep it in your home or place of worship. If i want to join i will find out about your religion. State needs to separate from Religion also and create legislation that state schools are none denomination.

Nodin

S.O wrote: »

From observing a certain thread or two on facebook, where a friend posted videos of youtube bloogers Thunderfoot and Pat Condell and Richard Dawkins criticising Islam, straight away some people gave a kneejerk reaction Islamophobia/ racism etc.

Dawkins may have a valid point, but I'd have to know what specifically he said.

Condell is an arsehole who descended into monomaniacal bigotry a long time ago.

I've heard of "Thunderfoot" in connection to other issues but I've no idea what his views are or what might come out with.

Do you remember what they said, in summary?

_Redzer_

I criticise them all equally when they start to affect people in negative ways, like the Islamic attitude towards women.

floggg

S.O wrote: »

Ever notice when having a discussion on religion with some people, who would be left leaning about religion if you criticise the catholic church or criticise scientology they will mostly agree with you, but criticise Islam and nearly straight away a kneejerk reaction ah that,s racist or the false concept of a term Islamiphobia will be used etc, here s the thing why is supposingly racist to criticise Islam and not racist to criticise other religions ?

I know. You can't make any broad brush unsubstantiated criticisms about the billion or so people who call themselves Muslim without a somebody jumping all over you calling you racist or uninformed.

How is that any different from criticism the theory or hierarchy of Christianity? The lefties do that the whole time and nobody says a word!

What? Just because they tend to distinguish between the religion/religious hierarchy and the multitude of religious believers they are meant to be somehow immune from accusations of racism or generalisations?

Muise...

Did it occur to you, OP, that people you speak to might be more likely to criticise the Catholic Church because they have direct and bitter experience of it, and they might be less likely to criticise Islam because they don't know too much about it?

Donkey Oaty

Once you distinguish between Islam (a mystical set of beliefs, very much open to interpretation) and Islamism (an absolute abhorrence for any secularist) then you'll be grand.

jellyboy

Sweet jesus/allah/buddha/flying spaghetti monster not this again…

Donkey Oaty

jellyboy wrote: »

flying spaghetti monster

It's "savoury" for him.

Donkey Oaty

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Once you distinguish between Islam (a mystical set of beliefs, very much open to interpretation) and Islamism (an absolute abhorrence for any secularist) then you'll be grand.

Trouble is the conflation between Islamism and politics/repression that happens, and how happy the media are to leave that conflation unchallenged when reporting.

Donkey Oaty

Deleted User wrote: »

Trouble is the conflation between Islamism and politics/repression that happens, and how happy the media are to leave that conflation unchallenged when reporting.

Some media outlets, but there are honourable exceptions.

Hootanany

Its the Racist card its in Vogue at the moment.

Hermy

S.O wrote: »

Ever notice when having a discussion on religion with some people, who would be left leaning about religion if you criticise the catholic church or criticise scientology they will mostly agree with you, but criticise Islam and nearly straight away a kneejerk reaction ah that,s racist or the false concept of a term Islamiphobia will be used etc, here s the thing why is supposingly racist to criticise Islam and not racist to criticise other religions ?

What I don't get is the Jews. Dare to criticise them and they call you anti-Semitic. They even have laws in some countries to prevent anyone from saying a bad word against them. How is slagging their religious nonsense any worse than slagging any of the other religious nonsense that is out there?

Donkey Oaty

Hermy wrote: »

They even have laws in some countries to prevent anyone from saying a bad word against them.

Citation needed?

Nodin

Hermy wrote: »

What I don't get is the Jews. Dare to criticise them and they call you anti-Semitic. They even have laws in some countries to prevent anyone from saying a bad word against them. How is slagging their religious nonsense any worse than slagging any of the other religious nonsense that is out there?

...fairly sure you're wrong there.

darkpagandeath

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Citation needed?

Israel ? And being anti Semitic is generally prosecuted under incitement to hatred laws in most countries.

Donkey Oaty

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Israel ?

Citation still needed, already?

Nodin

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Israel ?

Yes, that's a country, not a law or laws within that country.

Muise...

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Israel ? And being anti Semitic is generally prosecuted under incitement to hatred laws in most countries.

Ironically, Arabs are semites too.

darkpagandeath

What about this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

hatrickpatrick

Tying race to an argument about either religion or politics is an absolute cop out. Religion is entirely separate to race, regardless of whether certain races are more likely to be part of one religion over another. Same with politics.

Donkey Oaty

darkpagandeath wrote: »

And being anti Semitic is generally prosecuted under incitement to hatred laws in most countries.

Do any prosecutions come to mind that you think are particularly unfair? Not being sarky here, because I genuinely can't think of any (Holocaust denial cases aside, none at all).

Hermy

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Citation needed?

I don't have one. It's just a general sense - from the media I suppose - that being anti-semetic is somehow much worse than any other form of racism or religious hatred.

darkpagandeath

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Do any prosecutions come to mind that you think are particularly unfair? Not being sarky here, because I genuinely can't think of any (Holocaust denial cases aside, none at all).

Probably any relating to tweets and alike bad trolling and not genuine race hatred.

Donkey Oaty

Hermy wrote: »

I don't have one. It's just a general sense - from the media I suppose - that being anti-semetic is somehow much worse than any other form of racism or religious hatred.

The ADL can take some of the credit for that, because they can see anti-Semitism where none exists.

Muise...

Hermy wrote: »

What I don't get is the Jews. Dare to criticise them and they call you anti-Semitic. They even have laws in some countries to prevent anyone from saying a bad word against them. How is slagging their religious nonsense any worse than slagging any of the other religious nonsense that is out there?

Slagging their "religious nonsense" (waah Shabbat, haha! - how inane would that be?) is utterly different to insinuating that they are hook-nosed usurers with the baby Jesus' blood on their hands and secret control of banks, governments, and eh, Hollywood... which would be really acting the maggot.

Frank Lee Midere

Muise... wrote: »

Did it occur to you, OP, that people you speak to might be more likely to criticise the Catholic Church because they have direct and bitter experience of it, and they might be less likely to criticise Islam because they don't know too much about it?

Criticism of Catholicism is hardly confined to catholic countries. Despite the UK producing Cromwell and the penal laws, the US producing the Know Nothings and the KKK - and despite Catholics being the largest religious immigrant group to the US at least (largely brown people too), it's clear Catholicism is easier to criticise than Islam in either country.

It's a minority religion there so why is it easier to criticise?

Nodin

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What about this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

That hardly fits the description.

WilyCoyote

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Criticism of Catholicism is hardly confined to catholic countries. Despite the UK producing Cromwell and the penal laws, the US producing the Know Nothings and the KKK - and despite Catholics being the largest religious immigrant group to the US at least (largely brown people too), it's clear Catholicism is easier to criticise than Islam.

Simply because catholics don't start threatening jihads etc. And neither do they promise 72 hot babes in the hereafter

Frank Lee Midere

Muise... wrote: »

Slagging their "religious nonsense" (waah Shabbat, haha! - how inane would that be?) is utterly different to insinuating that they are hook-nosed usurers with the baby Jesus' blood on their hands and secret control of banks, governments, and eh, Hollywood... which would be really acting the maggot.

Someone who claims that Jewish people are secretly dominant in Hollywood would definitely be incorrect.

darkpagandeath

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Simply because catholics don't start threatening jihads etc. And neither do they promise 72 hot babes in the hereafter

Virgins... does not state men or women.

Donkey Oaty

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

it's clear Catholicism is easier to criticise than Islam in either country.

It's a minority religion there so why is it easier to criticise?

If you mean "acceptable within the mainstream media", you are right - and that is because people are afraid of the possible repercussions, with some justification.

As are artists, publishers, etc.

Very few have had the balls to say this out loud, although Grayson Perry would be one.

Frank Lee Midere

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Simply because catholics don't start threatening jihads etc. And neither do they promise 72 hot babes in the hereafter

That doesn't make any sense. Why does the Leftwing in both countries I mention find one minority religion easier to criticise than another?

Muise...

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Criticism of Catholicism is hardly confined to catholic countries. Despite the UK producing Cromwell and the penal laws, the US producing the Know Nothings and the KKK - and despite Catholics being the largest religious immigrant group to the US at least (largely brown people too), it's clear Catholicism is easier to criticise than Islam in either country.

It's a minority religion there so why is it easier to criticise?

Does the OP hear a lot of criticism of Catholicism from non-Catholic people? In Ireland? I presumed s/he was talking about that.

As a recovering Catholic, I don't mind in the slightest when its theological, philosophical and administrative failings are criticised. In fact, I usually join in as I know stuff about that. If I hear minority religions being criticised here in Ireland, I tend to ask for back-up information, as I don't know much about that. And I make sure to differentiate between the religion and the person who practises some or all of it.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

An File wrote: »

The plural of anecdote is not data.

..has to be the second most annoying utterance ever spouted on the Internet.

Second only to:

Correlation does not imply causation.

Frank Lee Midere

Muise... wrote: »

Does the OP hear a lot of criticism of Catholicism from non-Catholic people? In Ireland? I presumed s/he was talking about that.

As a recovering Catholic, I don't mind in the slightest when its theological, philosophical and administrative failings are criticised. In fact, I usually join in as I know stuff about that. If I hear minority religions being criticised here in Ireland, I tend to ask for back-up information, as I don't know much about that. And I make sure to differentiate between the religion and the person who practises some or all of it.

Fair enough. My argument stands but it's provably a distraction in a Irish blog.

(For the record I believe that anti-Catholicism in some countries is a proxy for ethnic bias, sometimes; just as anti-Islam is a proxy for racism. Again, sometimes).

WilyCoyote

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Virgins... does not state men or women.

In my translation of القرآن الكريم it does.:D

Insect Overlord

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

..has to be the second most annoying utterance ever spouted on the Internet.

Second only to:

Correlation does not imply causation.

Nah, there's definitely worse ones than that! It's in the Top 20, but not the Top 10.

Shakespeare's Sister

Criticising fundamentalist islam doesn't require hating on all muslims (many of whom are victims of the fundamentalists).
I criticise fundamentalist islam all the time. It's not hard to differentiate.

Although I'd believe it if there were people who gave people sh-t for being catholic but wouldn't dream of same towards a muslim.

WilyCoyote

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense. Why does the Leftwing in both countries I mention find one minority religion easier to criticise than another?

I gather that you mean followers of The Prophet?

Well if you do, then you must realise that the moderate Imans should be heard condemning the loonies that preach jihad. Yes condemning loud and clear. No ifs or buts. The Koran is a fairy tale collection just as Grimm or Aesop but with a less human core. It has as much relevance today as The Bible or The Chronicles of Narnia.
You fear who/what you are threatened by. I at the moment fear the advance of these merchants of death. You've only got to see their behaviour in Uganda, Chad, Ethiopia, Mali, various middle eastern states, the ghettos of Paris and some of the boroughs of UK towns ........ where, incidentally, left wing councils fell over themselves to accommodate their imported religion/culture in the pursuit of votes.

St Patrick would turn in his grave - if he ever existed - before being deified.

Nodin

WilyCoyote wrote: »

I gather that you mean followers of The Prophet?

Well if you do, then you must realise that the moderate Imans should be heard condemning the loonies that preach jihad. ..............

And you know they don't because..............

Lucifer MorningStar

S.O wrote: »

Ever notice when having a discussion on religion with some people, who would be left leaning about religion if you criticise the catholic church or criticise scientology they will mostly agree with you, but criticise Islam and nearly straight away a kneejerk reaction ah that,s racist or the false concept of a term Islamiphobia will be used etc, here s the thing why is supposingly racist to criticise Islam and not racist to criticise other religions ?

How dare you mock the religion of peace you disgusting racist

tritium

Sloan Whispering Sister wrote: »

Because people 'criticising Islam' are actually usually criticising 'Muslims', and not even that, but usually 'non-white Muslims'. And they say things like 'those Muslims want sharia law/hate women/are taking over the place'. Criticism of the unpleasant aspects of Islam is one thing, ignorant prejudice against a billion people with no accounting for the fact that only a minority are exremists is another.

As opposed to people criticising Catholicism who are actually usually criticising Catholics and not even that but usually white Catholics! And they say things like "those Catholics hate women". Criticism of the unpleasant elements if Catholicism is one thing, ignorant prejudice against by extension it may be argued a billion odd christians with no accounting for the fact the minority are extremists is another.

See what I did there? I took a meaningless soundbyte, changed a few words and made it equally meaningless. And I don't even support/ approve of religion.

Ralf and Florian

The main reason why you don't hear more criticism of Islam is that it can be seriously damaging to your health.

MRnotlob606

what a way to generalize.

floggg

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Israel ? And being anti Semitic is generally prosecuted under incitement to hatred laws in most countries.

Anti-Semitism is hate or discrimination against Jewish people based on their religion.

That's not the same thing is calling bull**** on the Torah, or criticising Judaism as a religion.

The only time "isms" get called is when you attack the practitioners as people rather than the religion they practice.

umop.episdn

Anybody post Jesus memes here on you laugh you lose? Yes?
Anyone do any memes of the prophet? .....Anyone?