Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

glued · 16-07-2014 11:51AM

Sky Italia said that Vidal is going nowhere and is part of Allegri's plan for next season. From the outside it looks as if Juve knew Conte was going to resign for a few weeks.

Vidal seems to be people putting 2 + 2 together. Can't see it happening IMO

Hococop · 16-07-2014 11:52AM

bangkok wrote: »

Antonio Conte has resigned as manager of Juve after only agreeing a new contract in may..

are they selling Vidal behind his back to Utd??

Another one I heard was he was ok with selling Vidal but is angry that juventus are only giving him some of the money from the sale to buy players e.g selling Vidal for £33 million and giving him 15 million out of the sale to spend

Chagan · 16-07-2014 11:52AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Five years ago this man was (allegedly) homeless.

There's hope for us all.

Now he's getting a lift to work with Anderson, it's an improvement I suppose.

redbaron_99 · 16-07-2014 11:54AM

glued wrote: »

Sky Italia said that Vidal is going nowhere and is part of Allegri's plan for next season. From the outside it looks as if Juve knew Conte was going to resign for a few weeks.

Vidal seems to be people putting 2 + 2 together. Can't see it happening IMO

Sky Italia are worse than Indy Kaila. Absolute gutter journalism - worse than anything in the UK.

Truth is no one knows exactly what's going on. And nothing will happen until Vidal is finished his holiday in Chile.

Mitch Connor · 16-07-2014 11:54AM

markc91 wrote: »

Garay went to zenit for €6 million

No, he didn't. Benfica sold their portion of his rights for 6million, he went for 16-18 in all.

glued · 16-07-2014 11:55AM

bangkok wrote: »

Antonio Conte has resigned as manager of Juve after only agreeing a new contract in may..

are they selling Vidal behind his back to Utd??

No it appears as if he was told that he has very little money to spend and that they will be signing older players until they can sort out their finances. Evra is cheap and will be on crap wages but Conte didn't want to sign him at all. If you believe rumours Juve are going to try and sell Pogba for huge money. Conte didn't agree with their transfer policy so he left.

FutureGuy · 16-07-2014 11:58AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Five years ago this man was (allegedly) homeless.

There's hope for us all.

Holy balls. I didn't even see Anderson! I thought Bebe was driving lol.

markc91 · 16-07-2014 12:01PM

Tom McDermott ‏@FootballMcD 5m
I've nothing other to say re Vidal. It won't be long now. All sorted. Reports in Italy that a fee has been agreed. Juve had other issues.

Who's this guy?

Tom McDermott ‏@FootballMcD 3m
I'm not 'teasing' anyone. On record what I have said. #mufc #vidal

Pro. F · 16-07-2014 12:05PM

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Buying young English players is a joke, having a British spine to our team was great when we had Beckham, Scholes, et all.

Buying Phil Jones for 20, Smalling who was in the 4th division about a year before hand for over 12 million...

Way more value abroad. Garay transferred recently for like 15 million pounds. Is Luke Shaw twice as effective?!

I've no problem buying Jones for £18m and Smalling for £12m. They're both very good young centre-backs and there was competition for Jones. But once you've bought them you have to play them, in their proper positions, consistently. That's something that Fergie and Moyes weren't prepared to do, so that spend had been wasted up to now.

Shaw is class but the price is ridiculous. If he works out people will say he was worth it, but that will only be judging the decision by the end result.

gosplan · 16-07-2014 12:07PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Sky Italia are worse than Indy Kaila. Absolute gutter journalism - worse than anything in the UK.

Truth is no one knows exactly what's going on. And nothing will happen until Vidal is finished his holiday in Chile.

Not at all true IMO.

You don't get offered a 40 million 200k a week deal and say you need to think about it for your hols.

That's just the mother of all excuses used by the media to prolong the agony story

Spazdarn · 16-07-2014 12:10PM

Pro. F wrote: »

I've no problem buying Jones for £18m and Smalling for £12m. They're both very good young centre-backs and there was competition for Jones. But once you've bought them you have to play them, in their proper positions, consistently. That's something that Fergie and Moyes weren't prepared to do, so that spend had been wasted up to now.

Shaw is class but the price is ridiculous. If he works out people will say he was worth it, but that will only be judging the decision by the end result.

I've found both to be error prone, and Smalling to be timid enough.

Jones is a horse of a man, strong and athletic but he bundles into players instead of sticking in a foot.

Smalling doesn't look comfortable with the ball, and isn't hard in the tackle.

I just expect more from them. One of the reason they're not given enough of a run in their natural positions is that they haven't been doing the business there when given the chance. United defence was overrun last season, though this is in part to not getting adequate cover from midfield (Carrick and Cleverley)

Zico · 16-07-2014 12:17PM

ToiletFusion wrote: »

I've found both to be error prone, and Smalling to be timid enough.

Jones is a horse of a man, strong and athletic but he bundles into players instead of sticking in a foot.

Smalling doesn't look comfortable with the ball, and isn't hard in the tackle.

I just expect more from them. One of the reason they're not given enough of a run in their natural positions is that they haven't been doing the business there when given the chance. United defence was overrun last season, though this is in part to not getting adequate cover from midfield (Carrick and Cleverley)

Yep, I think Smalling is never going to be good enough and while I've had hope for Jones, he's just not cutting it and seems to go off injured in every game I've seen him.

We need to buy Hummels, or at least a solid experienced CB, because we're fxcked if we're relying on either of them plus Evans at the back for the season.

Backstreet Moyes · 16-07-2014 12:18PM

gosplan wrote: »

Not at all true IMO.

You don't get offered a 40 million 200k a week deal and say you need to think about it for your hols.

That's just the mother of all excuses used by the media to prolong the agony story

He is not some average player who is desperate. He is one of the best players in the world and is not exactly poor. Moving is a big decision i would be surprised if he was not thinking about his decision on holidays.

beakerjoe · 16-07-2014 12:19PM

markc91 wrote: »

Garay went to zenit for €6 million and Chelsea just signed Filipe Luis for £20 Million much better to buy foreign even if we get 10-15 years out of Shaw

Garay went for 16 million iirc

Backstreet Moyes · 16-07-2014 12:20PM

Conte is meant to be Juventus through and through. He is young and was surely determined to succeed in the Champions League. I would be very surprised unless for personal reasons that at this stage of his career he would leave Juventus for Italy.

brinty · 16-07-2014 12:20PM

bangkok wrote: »

Antonio Conte has resigned as manager of Juve after only agreeing a new contract in may..

are they selling Vidal behind his back to Utd??

You mean to say your source in Turin hasn't confirmed it to you...
even after speaking to vidal's cleaners mother's daughters best friends sisters cousin
who is going out with your mates mates second cousin

redbaron_99 · 16-07-2014 12:24PM

gosplan wrote: »

Not at all true IMO.

You don't get offered a 40 million 200k a week deal and say you need to think about it for your hols.

That's just the mother of all excuses used by the media to prolong the agony story

Have you seen some of the stuff that Sky Italia come out with??

redbaron_99 · 16-07-2014 12:27PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

Conte is meant to be Juventus through and through. He is young and was surely determined to succeed in the Champions League. I would be very surprised unless for personal reasons that at this stage of his career he would leave Juventus for Italy.

Very good point. He was doing very well at Juve, has been loyal to the club, and is quite young for an international job. It smacks of a fall out with the board to me.

Pro. F · 16-07-2014 12:27PM

ToiletFusion wrote: »

I've found both to be error prone, and Smalling to be timid enough.

Jones is a horse of a man, strong and athletic but he bundles into players instead of sticking in a foot.

Smalling doesn't look comfortable with the ball, and isn't hard in the tackle.

I just expect more from them. One of the reason they're not given enough of a run in their natural positions is that they haven't been doing the business there when given the chance. United defence was overrun last season, though this is in part to not getting adequate cover from midfield (Carrick and Cleverley)

Imo Jones is much more measured in his defending when he's at CB and Smalling is very good on the ball and very good at tackling. The way I see it, all their problems stem from not being played enough in their proper positions in a settled defence. CBs need time to build a partnership, so being taken in and out of the team and being played out of position is not going to work. Even Vidic suffered when he was being treated like that.

I've seen both Smalling and Jones having brilliant games at CB so they definitely have the talent.

J. Marston · 16-07-2014 12:30PM

markc91 wrote: »

Tom McDermott ‏@FootballMcD 5m
I've nothing other to say re Vidal. It won't be long now. All sorted. Reports in Italy that a fee has been agreed. Juve had other issues.

Who's this guy?

Tom McDermott ‏@FootballMcD 3m
I'm not 'teasing' anyone. On record what I have said. #mufc #vidal

Not sure but his tweets are banned on Redcafe because he's a bullshítter, apparently.

redbaron_99 · 16-07-2014 12:32PM

Pro. F wrote: »

Imo Jones is much more measured in his defending when he's at CB and Smalling is very good on the ball and very good at tackling. The way I see it, all their problems stem from not being played enough in their proper positions in a settled defence. CBs need time to build a partnership, so being taken in and out of the team and being played out of position is not going to work. Even Vidic suffered when he was being treated like that.

I've seen both Smalling and Jones having brilliant games at CB so they definitely have the talent.

Excellent post.

It's the John O'Shea syndrome. Good player ruined by being switched to different positions too often.

beno619 · 16-07-2014 12:32PM

Hopefully LVG gives Jones and Smalling a go this year and if they don't produce then fair enough people can complain about the transfers. If things work out how we hope then we'll already have two world class replacements for Rio and Vida at the club.

But the critisicm made of them based on sporadic appearances at RB, CB and in Jones case CM where he's nullified big players in big games is way over the top.

Fenix · 16-07-2014 12:36PM

Oh Daily Mail, don't ever change.

That's usually pretty quiet, the only attraction nearby being a tea and burger van. if you squint enough that particular delicatessen is visible in the background on the right.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 16-07-2014 12:39PM

Chelsea really making excellent signings, makes united's need to continue getting some business done even more pressing.

Zico · 16-07-2014 12:40PM

Pro. F wrote: »

The way I see it, all their problems stem from not being played enough in their proper positions in a settled defence. CBs need time to build a partnership, so being taken in and out of the team and being played out of position is not going to work.

They aren't going to get any better under a coach who plays Dirk Kuyt at left back then.:P

I think you've just given a very clichéd excuse for their failure to develop. There'll be no excuses for them under LVG.

Backstreet Moyes · 16-07-2014 12:42PM

Hummels is fantasy i would be happy with Jones, Smalling, Evans and De Vrij ir whatever his name is.

keane2097 · 16-07-2014 12:43PM

Smalling and Jones spent most of their time over the last two years being criticised for putting in **** crosses, I think it's fair to say they haven't been given the correct developmental path at United.

Backstreet Moyes · 16-07-2014 12:44PM

Zico wrote: »

They aren't going to get any better under a coach who plays Dirk Kuyt at left back then.:P

I think you've just given a very clichéd excuse for their failure to develop. There'll be no excuses for them under LVG.

How is it a cliched excuse. Both were signed as youngsters with promise. Both have never got the gametime to develop theirs skills. They are still very raw because they were messed around at the club. Both still have huge talent and i have no doubt will come good once they play regularly.

It's not a cliche to say players will improve by playing it's a fact.

cdb · 16-07-2014 12:47PM

Didn't see it posted, M.E.N Sport today have an article on Nicky Butt scouting Ander Herrera last year. Article is a bit waffly but there are a couple of interesting quotes from Butt.

“I watched Ander a few times last season on scouting trips having a look at him. He didn’t play in one match, so that was a waste of time! But he impressed me in the matches I did see him,” Butt told MEN Sport.

“He is a very talented boy and speaks English, which is always a help coming over to England. It helps you settle in. It gives you a head start when you get into the dressing room. He seems a nice lad and he is well liked already.”

“His ability to pass and keep the ball is great,” Nicky added.

“You can see the Spaniard in him because they are always so comfortable on the ball. They can take the ball in any situation. It doesn’t bother them. They want to keep the ball moving and play things simple. He looks like he will be a very good player for the club.

“He was at the level where you just had to take note of this player because there are not many top midfielders you can get, in my opinion.

“You can all talk about Paul Pogba or Toni Kroos or whoever but these kind of players are not easy to get. So you have to widen your net and Herrera is a bonus.

“He is at a level where he can play at a club like Manchester United and given a bit of time he can excel. He can become a star player for us.

“I do think he has the ability to do that. He can become a big influence on our midfield. You will have to be patient with him. You cannot expect miracles from him straight away just because there is a big price tag attached.

"That’s not the lads fault. It is just the way football has gone. That’s between the two clubs and shouldn’t be allowed to put pressure on him.

"Given the time and the chance to develop, he can become a very good player. We think he can achieve very good things. It is a great signing for United and I am very pleased. I am sure the fans will take to him.”

An interesting read, full article here

It pretty much confirms that Herrera was brought in with future potential in mind rather than an immediate impact player. The article also says that LVG ok'ed the deal but this could be speculation.

Spazdarn · 16-07-2014 12:50PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Excellent post.

It's the John O'Shea syndrome. Good player ruined by being switched to different positions too often.

Or limited players looking limited...

I'll let it down to a difference of opinion but everytime I've seen Smalling on the ball whether it be CB or RB, he's looked a mere seconds away from sh!ting his pants.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

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