Minister for 'diaspora'- what Irish behaviour!

Western Pomise · 12-07-2014 02:42PM #1

I think we have reached a new political low in the country with the creation of a 'Minister for the Diaspora' to give Jimmy Deenihan a post in Govt.Enda Kenny has just equalled anything the bold Bertie ever did for taking a hand at the intelligence levels of Irish people.

Muise... · 12-07-2014 02:44PM

I did a double take at that yesterday too. Emigrants can't vote here, but they get a minister?

Colinf1212 · 12-07-2014 02:44PM

Great thread. One to tell the grandkids.

ballsymchugh · 12-07-2014 02:45PM

not really.

many countries allow their expats to participate in national elections, including USA. the french government have a similar position to deal with the amount of french people based in the UK. there are regular calls for the irish diaspora to have a say in the future of the country. this is probably a step in that direction.

so no, not really irish behaviour.

solomafioso · 12-07-2014 02:46PM

Dolla dolla bill y'all.

bonerjams03 · 12-07-2014 02:46PM

It's probably more welcome than anything, and hopefully can be a push towards voting.

Look at France - they've very elaborate infrastructure in place to represent their citizens abroad.

token101 · 12-07-2014 02:47PM

Makes a lot of sense to me given the history of Irish emigration. We've got lots of people leaving and eventually they'll be looking to return so it would be good to have a functional resettlement system of some sort.

osarusan · 12-07-2014 02:50PM

IRcolm wrote: »

It's probably more welcome than anything, and hopefully can be a push towards voting.

It would depend on who was eligible to vote, but I'm not sure that voting rights for the diaspora would be a good thing at all.

Muise... · 12-07-2014 02:50PM

IRcolm wrote: »

It's probably more welcome than anything, and hopefully can be a push towards voting.

Look at France - they've very elaborate infrastructure in place to represent their citizens abroad.

France still has colonies and protectorates and a far smaller proportion of its natives living abroad though - it needs such facilities and can easily provide them without messing up domestic affairs. (Hopefully all their fascists are contained in the motherland...)

I think you should vote where you live. Minister for Diaspora is a waste of govt. time when we have plenty of NGOs for that kind of need.

Donkey Oaty · 12-07-2014 02:53PM

His portfolio presumably includes the undocumented Irish in American and anything to do with Terry Wogan.

bonerjams03 · 12-07-2014 02:53PM

osarusan wrote: »

It would depend on who was eligible to vote, but I'm not sure that voting rights for the diaspora would be a good thing at all.

Why not?

What flaw is there in - again for example's sake - France's allowing citizens abroad to vote?

If the hoards of young, educated, liberal voters who had to leave throughout the past century had have been allowed to vote maybe more progressive governments would have been elected. It could have helped stem the flow of the brain drain.

I'd welcome it anyway.

Muise... · 12-07-2014 02:56PM

IRcolm wrote: »

Why not?

What flaw is there in - again for example's sake - France's allowing citizens abroad to vote?

If the hoards of young, educated, liberal voters who had to leave throughout the past century had have been allowed to vote maybe more progressive governments would have been elected. It could have helped stem the flow of the brain drain.

I'd welcome it anyway.

I think it's easier to stick to exclusively domestic voting, especially if you extend the franchise purely in the hope your side will win - that's likely to blow up in your face.

bonerjams03 · 12-07-2014 02:57PM

Muise... wrote: »

France still has colonies and protectorates and a far smaller proportion of its natives living abroad though - it needs such facilities and can easily provide them without messing up domestic affairs. (Hopefully all their fascists are contained in the motherland...)

I think you should vote where you live. Minister for Diaspora is a waste of govt. time when we have plenty of NGOs for that kind of need.

Doesn't have to be to the same proportion as current constituencies - token representation such as 1 TD/Senator, possibly even non voting member of the house would be no harm.

I don't see the problem in their being at least some representation, especially considering many emigrants leave out of economic reasons.

French colonies are now incorporated into formal départments liks Guadeloupe - this is a separate issue of voting rights for blocs of native citizens living abroad.

bonerjams03 · 12-07-2014 02:58PM

Muise... wrote: »

I think it's easier to stick to exclusively domestic voting, especially if you extend the franchise purely in the hope your side will win - that's likely to blow up in your face.

What side?

But by all means, let's stick to what is logistically easier.

My name is URL · 12-07-2014 02:59PM

token101 wrote: »

Makes a lot of sense to me given the history of Irish emigration. We've got lots of people leaving and eventually they'll be looking to return so it would be good to have a functional resettlement system of some sort.

It's not as if people who choose to leave are refugees.. there doesn't need to be any 'resettlement system', whatever that even means. Irish citizens that leave can easily return.. it's never been a problem before.

And this has nothing to do with allowing emigrants to vote.. they've ruled that out numerous times already, claiming that people abroad don't need to vote since they have Facebook.. seriously

http://www.irishpost.co.uk/news/emigrants-dont-need-dail-votes-theyve-got-facebook-irish-minister

It was a bizarre decision to create a new government department for such a thing while at the same time placing the Defense portfolio in the hands of the Agriculture minister.

Devine Wind_up 55 · 12-07-2014 03:00PM

token101 wrote: »

Makes a lot of sense to me given the history of Irish emigration. We've got lots of people leaving and eventually they'll be looking to return so it would be good to have a functional resettlement system of some sort.

I'd be surprised if anything meaningful or as useful as that ever came out of it

Muise... · 12-07-2014 03:04PM

IRcolm wrote: »

What side?

But by all means, let's stick to what is logistically easier.

Progressive side. Not that there's much choice for progress, but I wouldn't necessarily assume that emigrants are progressive just because they had to leave for economic reasons.

I would hope they become proper participants in the countries they settle in, rather than voting here at a remove.

Our current wave of emigrants aren't of the old-fashioned gone-for-good, American Wake variety either. I would say many of those young adults in Australia for example have half an eye on coming back one day.

darkpagandeath · 12-07-2014 03:05PM

Makes a lot of sense if you want a ministers wage and an extra pension.

expectationlost · 12-07-2014 03:08PM

minister of state or junior minister

MRnotlob606 · 12-07-2014 03:10PM

I can only see this as a positive step, hopefully he can try broker a deal about the 50,000 undocumented Irish in the US

darkpagandeath · 12-07-2014 03:14PM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I can only see this as a positive step, hopefully he can try broker a deal about the 50,000 undocumented Irish in the US

Would you let 50 thousand foreigners here broker a deal too ?

sabat · 12-07-2014 03:16PM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I can only see this as a positive step, hopefully he can try broker a deal about the 50,000 undocumented Irish in the US

I'm quite sure they're 'documented' somewhere within the US immigration service's computers; the word you're looking for is illegal.

Muise... · 12-07-2014 03:16PM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I can only see this as a positive step, hopefully he can try broker a deal about the 50,000 undocumented Irish in the US

I certainly hope he doesn't. That kind of but-I'm-a-special-case expectation that rules apply to anyone but us is embarrassing enough here without making a holy diplomatic show of ourselves abroad too.

conorhal · 12-07-2014 03:18PM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I can only see this as a positive step, hopefully he can try broker a deal about the 50,000 undocumented Irish in the US

They're illegals, I don't know where we came up with gibberish like 'undocumented', implying some careless bureaucrat just forgot to stamp their visa or something.

I think this just smacks of another jobs for the boys move, under Bertie the number of junior and super junior ministers exploded as an attempt was made to give a job to everybody in the audience. Of course the 'new politics' to be practiced by our current government was going do so away with this, but the number of seats at the table seems to be creeping back up again.

It's always been my argument that emigrants are too large a constituency to be permitted a vote in a country that they have no material interest in any more and don't have to deal with the consequences of the electoral decisions made.

12-07-2014 03:22PM

What would be useful is a survey on how many emmigrants return back to Ireland and in what timeframe, people who are only gone briefly should be represented imo

bonerjams03 · 12-07-2014 03:25PM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I can only see this as a positive step, hopefully he can try broker a deal about the 50,000 undocumented Irish in the US

If someone were to start a thread saying 50,000 people from outside the EU were here illegally should get visas and citizenship, I don't think it would go down to well.

conorhal · 12-07-2014 03:27PM

IRcolm wrote: »

If someone were to start a thread saying 50,000 people from outside the EU were here illegally should get visas and citizenship, I don't think it would go down to well.

Sure Shatter handed 60,000 of them a passport over the last few years in the full knowledge that most of them were chancers and there was barely a peep about it.

osarusan · 12-07-2014 03:32PM

IRcolm wrote: »

Why not?

Irish citizenship can be carried down through generations basically forever, as long as people are careful about it.

But they have might have no idea what Ireland is like, no intention ever to move there or even know more about the place.

They should not be able to vote, in my opinion.

As I said, it depends on who's eligible, and what they're eligible to vote for.

Your own suggestion that they have a token vote is hardly a ringing endorsement of them, is it? They can vote, but only in such a way that it means next to nothing.

mickydoomsux · 12-07-2014 03:42PM

If you don't live here you shouldn't be able to vote.You won't have to live with the repercussions of your decision.

It'll lead to ill informed, misty-eyed "the auld home country" types getting elected because they can evoke the best imagery of the idealized Ireland that a lot of the "diaspora" have.

Muise... · 12-07-2014 04:01PM

When Mary Robinson was president, she opened up the office to people from all walks of life, and I remember she was particularly keen to include the Diaspora. (It was the first time I heard the word and I thought it sounded like either an illness or the medication for it.)

Rather than a shiny new ministry, it seems more appropriate to let the presidency and cultural organisations take care of keeping in touch with emigrants and letting them know they're not forgotten, and to let the embassies, consulates and Dept. of Foreign Affairs look after any practical assistance they might need from the state.

oppenheimer1 · 12-07-2014 04:04PM

IRcolm wrote: »

It's probably more welcome than anything, and hopefully can be a push towards voting.

Look at France - they've very elaborate infrastructure in place to represent their citizens abroad.

Why? Why should someone who doesn't live here and have to suffer the consequences of their choices have a say in how our country is run?

They'll get a vote if they come back.

Minister for 'diaspora'- what Irish behaviour!

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